Are Wake County parents ready to do away with the idea of having a specific school assigned to their address?
As noted in today's article, it's looking more likely that the student assignment committee will recommend a controlled-choice/cluster plan. Instead of one elementary school being assigned to a specific address, parents would pick from several schools in their zone or from countywide magnet schools with Wake using a computer program to assign the seats.
“You can’t have every child going to their neighborhood school or else you’d have schools over capacity and schools under capacity,” said school board member John Tedesco, chair of the student assignment committee. “But we can provide them four or five logical choices they can choose from.”
Tedesco said people need to get out of the mindset of thinking about attendance nodes.
To avoid mass reassignment, Tedesco said students would be grandfathered at the school they're currently attending unless they want to apply to go elsewhere. The computer would handle requests from newcomers and people changing schools in the district.
Tedesco said they'd hope parents would get their first choice. Factors such as proximity, siblings and crowding would be weighed by the program.
Based on some of the e-mail and phone calls I've received over the past several months, there are people who thought that electing the new board majority would lead to a straight forward assignment to their neighborhood school.
But Allison Backhouse of Wake CARES said the new approach is something parents will like as it provides choice and stability while still having you go to school in your community.
“I don’t think everybody thought that neighborhood meant going to school in your backyard,” Backhouse said.
Minority board members are also interested in controlled choice. But don't be suprised if it ultimately results in a 5-4 vote because of objections that not enough is being done to promote diversity in the zones.
Comments
zoned School Choice
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:44 — RMC10Hum - I'm getting the picture of this zoned school program. Has anyone gotten far enough into insight to tell me how the School Board/School District will handle transportation thru the zones, on the current year round/traditional/tiered challenged transportation system. Will the busses run in zones. If parents choose school choice 3,4,5 or whatever, will it be at their own transportation expense? Just as it is now if you choose to go to other than your base school - transportation is not provided or you have to be at the bus stop at 6:30 in the morning?
Question #2 - How will this affect school funding. Will the County/state/federal monies be given to the zones instead of the district level, and how will zoning affect test reporting, etc.
Side Note - I noticed on the recently published AYP report that several popular school failed to meet AYP for a second year. Example familiar to us - Olive Chapel. This was our elementary node school - it had great scores every year both in EOG/EOC and AYP progress. Has changing to year round schedule impacted AYP scores negatively? Or has it been bussing into "good" schools that changed the picture in so many schools of distinction and excellence? These two components, year round and bussing, have been the biggest change to WCPSS environment in the past 2-3 years of AYP and EOG reduced scores - both occurring at about the same time.
Schools as Community Centers
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 11:04 — Dove314One question for those with more knowledge of the community schools concept -- some of the benefits presented have related to using the schools as community centers and building communities. Does a school choice model reduce this capability? If not all kids in a neighborhood go to the same school, does that then take away from that closest schools ability to act as the center of that community? Doesn't that also change (not do away with but change) the dynamic of engaging third parties to support a particular school / neighborhood? Wouldn't the support become somewhat more of a zone-wide model?
Good questions
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 23:25 — TrailerParkGirlIt will take some thought to determine how the two concepts potentially interact. Off the top of my head I'm not aware of where both full service community schools and controlled choice are being done, but will have to do some research.
Community schools in general can take many forms. Anecdotally, my home district has some services that happen at district (due to multiple districts per county is somewhat comparable to a zone) level and others at individual school level. However, that district is not using a choice model for assignments. HCZ is a zone, not just a particular school (although one key element is the Promise Academy school). I think how having those services would interplay with and impact the choice component does add potential complexity.
There are a variety of ways
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 17:36 — HJ2ss2There are a variety of ways to implement the community schools concept. Schools don't necessarily need to be "community centers". As long as someone in the school has an understanding of the needs of identified students and resources available in the community, as well as an understanding of what services can best meet the individual needs of the students, the model can be implemented.
And How
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 20:20 — Solon77And how does this differ than what we have today ?
Currently, there are no
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 07:53 — HJ2ss2Currently, there are no formal guidelines to implement community services, as well as no identified person who has the autonomy to make decisions as to the appropriateness of agency programs. There are programs in the community that are well intended but ineffective. In my professional experience with the Wake County Schools, one message was clear to me and other school professionals; the effectiveness of an intervention was not an issue. What was important to them was that it appeared that services were being provided. This is not true of every school in Wake County. There are principals who care about the students and the effectiveness of interventions.
The needs of the students
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 22:24 — jenmanThe needs of the students attending Ligon is different from the needs of the students living in the community surrounding Ligon.
How so? (please elaborate
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 11:54 — carson79How so? (please elaborate since you seem familiar with the students from the area around Ligon and the students who attend school there)
And if so, how is this not true of other areas of the county that are economically diverse?
What is different about Ligon than about East Millbrook or Leesville or wherever?
Take a drive
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:53 — Solon77Take a Sunday drive in the area around Ligon and the Southeast part of town.
When I taught in a charter
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 09:55 — willynillyWhen I taught in a charter school it was nice (most of the time LOL) when parents talked to one another. If teachers or administrators decided to do some "experimenting" with things they were called on the carpet and asked to explain. Just maybe if this whole things come to fruition parents will be able to find out if, like Holly Ridge Middle School in the 90s, the regular ed child does not end up in a class of 36 students and 61% of them are special needs. Hmmmmmm.....was that part of regular ed students learning DIVERSITY?
...
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 09:41 — SideburnsThe fact that some believe "neighborhood schools" meant attending your closest school just shows who hasn't been listening. Maybe you've been too wrapped up in the name-calling, singing, and finger-pointing. The new Board members are promoting choice and stability in assignment for all families -- regardless of their income level. That hasn't changed.
Seriously... instead of gloating the pro-diversity folks should
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 16:02 — SupportNeighbor...instead come to the realization that you had it all wrong, all along. Like most neighborhood school supporters, I don't believe I have a God-given right to one particular school, but I should have a right to attend a good school that's reasonably close to my home, and to know that the school assignment is FAIRLY stable over time.
In my current little section of my subdivision, where there are 15 families with elementary age children, only 5 choose to go to the assigned base (it's not a very good school, nor is it the one closest to our homes). Everyone else fled to charter, magnet, or private. In total, those 15 families attend 8 different elementary schools. That is just SAD. It has created divisions and resentment among families within our neighborhood.
I like the idea of controlled choice - and only being able to choose from a handful of schools. I think most families will choose the school that is closest to them, and/or the one that all the other WCPSS students in the neighborhood are attending... I am hoping that in my neighborhood, kids will eventually be split up between maybe 3 schools, rather than 8. And it will begin to have more of a community feel - rather than the fragmented, disjointed mess it is now.
I will NOT like the controlled choice if it means having to apply to the school of my choice every single year, and sit on pins and needles until the letter comes in the mail. Unless there is a need to majorly shuffle things around due to growth, I should be able to stay put from year to year.
Pins and needles
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 16:56 — magnetParentMy understanding, and the way Michael Alves explained it, once you are in a school you are in for the duration - unless you decide to apply somewhere else. That being said, people can still be reassigned due to new schools opening up or underenrolled schools closing. Not sure how they decide who would be moved, but I think they look for volunteers first to fill the new school.
The controlled choice will not necessarily guarantee that all kids in a neighborhood will go to the same school. Many choose a school based on what's best for their child. In some cases, some families have two children going to two different schools because of their individual needs.
...
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 22:05 — Sideburns"Many choose a school based on what's best for their child."
Exactly -- now you're catching on. And for too many years some parents haven't had that opportunity. Now everyone will be able to have a say in where their child attends.
It has never been about attending the closest school to your home -- and always about offering choice (which may be the closest school) and increased stability.
This is cracking me up.
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 15:25 — jenmanThis is cracking me up. How many times did we say this? Over and over and over again, yet people wanted to make assumptions rather than actually listen to what we were saying. It's a never ending battle, isn't it?
If you expect that people
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 17:48 — HJ2ss2If you expect that people will make assumptions, then it is not as frustrating when it actually happens. And, yes, it can be viewed as a "never ending battle" or never ending entertainment.
If the plan does not end the
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 08:45 — CaryCurmudgeonIf the plan does not end the idiotic assignments we see now where people cannot attend a school that they can easily walk to, then there will be a LOT of pissed off people. Proof's in the pudding, we'll see what they come up with.
Exactly
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 10:26 — NWRaleighMomIf I need to move to another area, I need to know in advance what school my children will be attending.
School Can Walk to
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 09:17 — HereWeGoLooks like I am on the border of 2 zones. So, it looks like if I do not get the ES I can walk to the next closest ES is in another zone.
So, I guess with a "Controlled Choice" plan I will no longer have a base school but a base zone. So, when it is time to sign up for kindergarten instead of knowing that I am going to get the ES I can walk to I would apply and at some point I would find out if I have been assigned to the school I can walk to.
Also, of the 2 zones I may end up in do not have as many choices as I currently have.
Ha Ha
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 08:38 — gregishereI laugh at the learning ability of Mr. Tedesco, for whom apparently it took nine months to do some simple math.
I laugh at the Backhouse person, who gives a mighty attempt at revisionist history.
I laugh at the SMALL minority of vocal neighborhood school activists, who were lied to by the candidates who said, sure, your kids can go to the school down the street in Apex, no problem. They believed the lie.
Oh well. The Five Idiotics may still ruin the school system. But I'm now at least hopeful they've glimpsed a crescent of reality.
I don't have any problem
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 08:29 — user12345I don't have any problem with this plan as I understand it but I don't think it is what many thought it was going to be ... I think many thought they were going to get a township model where their neighborhood had exclusive rights to a certain school and they could control the racial and income make up of the school through surrounding property values.... they could contribute to that school and see their property values increase .... I think many thought their kids would go to the same school with their neighbors which this plan won't ensure ...remember all those complaints on the subject, "kids in my neighborhood go to three different schools" ... also, anyone living in a "good" node school won't be able to get a premium for their home with the guarantee that the home / school are a package. And if the zones are racially and income diverse, it is likely all the schools will come to some equilibrium that reflects the county as a whole and not have enclaves of affluent white kids barricaded in a few select nodes.
User....are you really Rev
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 08:46 — shearertwUser....are you really Rev Barbar? I'm thinking not because most of your words are spell correctly and your grammar is generally OK. But can you please STOP with the shallow insults proclaiming every white person who wants some sanity in the school system as a racist? Have you no better argument?
I for one have been arguing for a zone and/or community based assignment model for quite some time. You can probably find dozens of old blog post where I'm arguing against the use of the term "neighborhood" schools. I for one NEVER thought that the best option for WCPSS nor even possible for that matter. I do, however, hope that the creation of the zones uses logical geographic and community boundaries as much a possible. I believe that this will be a critical component of the success or failure of this model.
Again, as I've said many many times, communities make great schools, not school systems.
I never understood why you
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 09:07 — user12345I never understood why you keep jumping to the extreme case of prejudice - racism? Is that some ploy to try to end the discussion? Every honest person has some prejudice ... so whites want to live with whites, blacks want to live with blacks, woman want to talk about family and men about sports .. we gather in like-minded groups ... that is a fact and not evil ... but it is not optimal for a democratic society that depends on everyone participating and having a good understanding of others... but what is evil is allowing any segment to secure the best resources for themselves .... especially resources that are "public" and especially when they use the argument that I am richer than you or pay more taxes and therefore I am worth more than you as a human ...
How does wanting your child
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 09:30 — shearertwHow does wanting your child to attend a school close to your home and community have anything to do with "securing the best resources for themselves"? All schools WILL get equal resources from the public. Some "communities" may chose to ADD to that through volunteer efforts and possibly donations. Isn't that what you're afraid of? Aren't you really just afraid of active, successful parents doing what it takes to help their children also be successful? Aren't you really just in favor of the government taking away all parents rights and abilities and having children from all walks be given the same mediocre opportunity? Why are you so against some communities choosing going above the state or county standard? That is, after all, what separates the great from the mediocre.
FYI, I don't know one single white person (that I'd ever associate with) who wants their property values to increase to keep ANY other race out of their neighborhood. I like my neighborhood to look nice with respect to the homes, the yards and the common areas (which is what drives property values up) but I could care less about what the people look like who live on the INSIDE of the house. Perhaps you need some deep introspection on who the REAL racist is in this argument.
How does wanting your child
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 09:54 — user12345How does wanting your child to attend a school close to your home and community have anything to do with "securing the best resources for themselves"?
1. Well...I don't believe
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 10:21 — shearertw1. Well...I don't believe that ANY government body (and certainly not WCPSS) can provide the best possible education for my children and that ONLY an active community that FORCES/supports a school to provide that education is the ONLY way. The ONLY way a community can garner that type of "power" over schools is if the schools are forced to answer to them.
2. Are Garner and/or Knightdale receiving less funding? There are lots of disadvantages is life, deal with it, work through it, etc. Perhaps if you had a strong community working on the school system as I mentioned in #1 above, this wouldn't be a issue in these places.
3. I actually took the time to read this article and came away with.....SO WHAT? People are moving to HS, buying land, getting active in the community, voting for people who they want to represent them, etc, etc, etc. What is your problem with that? HS has arguably made more progress than any other town in WC over the past 10 years. FYI....nice plug for my neighborhood! Much appreciated! Perhaps now I may have a chance in _ _ LL of selling my house one day.
Nice try ... Garner and
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 11:02 — user12345Nice try ... Garner and Knightdale get the same funding but have different requirements ... by concentrating all the high needs kids in a school and requesting equal funding you are actually benefiting the affluent schools ....but you know that ....KD/GHSe funding probably goes for more resources for special ed, discipline, and support for struggling kids which means they have to "sacrifice" the smart kids by reallocating the resources from AP to SE. That is the insidious nature of your seemingly innocent equal funding argument. I am anticipating you will now say that if you are in a neighborhood of low income people who suck up the resources of the neighborhood school move to a rich neighborhood.
The article was to illustrate how a small group of affluent and powerful people can coop the government and resources by neglecting minorities using simple districting.
voters rights
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:41 — shearertwhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/28/exclusive-doj-stalls-voter-registration-law-military/
FYI- an actual case of infringing on voters rights just to help you know the difference.
From each according to his
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:32 — shearertwFrom each according to his ability, to each according to his need....
Is that about right Mr. Marx?
As to districting, I think
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:24 — shearertwAs to districting, I think Mayor Sears answered that fairly well.....
First, HS is a relatively small town to even begin considering that and second, the town council is 20% AA but the town is less than 10% AA. It simply does not matter that the town was once 85% AA. We all have the right to be "ruled" by people we choose, not those that were once in power....that would be called a monarchy. Times change, people change, places change...get over it.
First, people have certain
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:19 — shearertwFirst, people have certain inalienable rights, among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
There's no RIGHT to be "born happy" or to ever even become happy, just that you have the opportunity to pursue it by whatever means you have as an individual.
If someone in Garner is upset with their situation in life (i.e. unhappy), they have every RIGHT to pursue happiness by whatever means they can muster. However, those means cannot infringe upon my individual rights. What you are suggesting is that some of my "property" be taken away and given to some other community or group of people who is doesn't belong to. That is a direct infringement on my rights as a human being (i.e. my pursuit of happiness). I am now less happy, not by fault of my own, but because my government has taken away some of my "property" by force which I was using to education my children or whatever in order to make someone else "happy".
Whenever the government take resources away from people and distributes in unequally, that is inherently wrong based on the very fundamentals that this county was founded on (i.e. property rights and the natural rights of man such as pursuit of happiness).
Pursuit DOES NOT equal guaranteed starting point or outcome.
I am saying when you are
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:38 — user12345I am saying when you are an American; you pay dues like your country club membership. Schools are public assets like roads, libraries, etc. You have no right to a better school because of your race, wealth, neighborhood, etc. If you want to pick up trash along the road to your home thank you just like if you want to volunteer at you school but that does not guarantee better access. Public schools are equal access. If you want a non-public custom offering you can choose to leave the public system. And your plan to warehouse all the high needs kids into a school that is not yours and take the resources using the “average” argument to advance your schools is evil and unpatriotic.
"Whenever the government takes resources away from people and distributes in unequally, that is inherently wrong based on the very fundamentals that this county was founded on (i.e. property rights and the natural rights of man such as pursuit of happiness)."
Unequal distribution of resources is a fact. If you do not like it, you should find another country to move to. You seem to think that you some how are actually paying for the resources you are consuming. I do not see you complaining about the road going to your neighborhood that I paid for but you are enjoying. How about the new community center and sewers I paid for but you are enjoying. You recently moved here (I have been here 28 years) and you seem to have forgotten that I paid for much of what you enjoy yet I don’t feel you are stealing from me … you have joined the collective where we pool resources and pass build assets in one generation and pass them to the next. But you are all about me.
So...
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 13:29 — Bob_SconceYou have no right to a better school because of your race, wealth, neighborhood, etc.
As a legal matter, you're right of course. As a moral and economic matter, when you pour your labor and money into a school to make it better, you have a right to the fruit of those efforts -- if I get together with my neighbors and buy, say, a new playground and new computers for my kids' school and we help out in the library, then we have a right to have our kids continue to attend that school.
Further, schools create a powerful disincentive for parents to do those things when they disrespect those rights. (Again, they're not 'legal' rights, but the effect is the same.)
if I get together with my
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 13:33 — user12345if I get together with my neighbors and buy, say, a new playground and new computers for my kids' school and we help out in the library, then we have a right to have our kids continue to attend that school
You ought to exercise that right ... I know you want into RC or Enloe ... give them some computers or playground equipment .... tell us results ...
Heh...
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 13:58 — Bob_SconceRaleigh Charter would be great. As to Enloe... I think it's too late: we didn't start the kids on the magnet track in elementary school which, from what I understand, is a huge impediment to getting in at the high school level.
As to the substance of your comment.... I think you're missing my point, which is that if you want to encourage parents to be active in their kids' schools, then respect their investment.
Enloe
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 20:31 — Solon77Enloe - just get into Ligon Middle school, it is not a problem if your kid is identified as AG. Raleigh Charter - make sure you know the right people.
Getting into Ligon is not a
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 22:21 — jenmanGetting into Ligon is not a problem if your kid is AG? It was for us and most of the people I know from our non-mag elem school. Last year, they didn't even get through all of the kids with magnet and magnet base priority before they ran out of the first 90% of seats. Anybody from a non-magnet who got into Ligon did so because they won the 'last 10% lottery'.
Ligon and AG
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 22:09 — NWRaleighMomNot all AG kids get admitted to Ligon (around 50% if I remember last stats correctly)
Yeah
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 20:41 — Bob_SconceNot really interested in sending the kids that far until High School. What're the odds of being admitted as a Freshman?
As to RCHS, it seems that there are only 3 ways: have an older sibling already there, have a parent who's an employee, win the lottery. Evidently, your odds of winning the lottery are much higher if you've taken Geometry already. Not sure how my kid's middle school is going to respond when I ask them to put him in Geometry in 8th grade.
By the time
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 20:54 — Solon77By the time your kids are ready who knows what the chances would be or if the school would have the same appeal.
Out of curiosity - what would be your motivation to go to Enloe ? Wakefield is in your community and offers just as many AP classes.
So...
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 21:47 — Bob_SconceMainly because the chances of getting into a good college are better at Enloe, even though I dislike the arrogant attitude I've seen among Enloe students. (But, wasn't everybody full of $%$% when they were a teenager?)
I'm suspicious of Wakefield's size -- from what I've heard, it can be difficult to get the classes you want.
My kids are far enough off that I have the luxury to investigate whether those things are true or not.
Enloe
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 22:58 — Solon77People should not judge Enloe through a small group of students. While they come across as arrogant to adults - they have in a sense earned it - Morehead scholars, scholarships and academic achievements as long as your arm. I also have to give them credit for their activism and creativity. The majority however are just normal very hard working kids. I say very hard working because we have the ability to comparing how the exact same classes are taught at Leesville and Enloe. Enloe is clearly more rigorous and more responsibility is place on the student. The depth of competition is fierce. A 4.4 GPA gets you in the top 30%. Juniors typically take 2-3 AP classes and Seniors take 3-4 AP classes. But this is today. Hard to tell what will happen over time.
I don't think you get
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 13:49 — shearertwI don't think you get it. The giving part comes after you are part of the school. People don't give much to their kids school now because they don't believe their kids or their community will benefit from it in the long run because the social engineers have ruined that concept in WC.
Bob / TS .... I understand
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 14:52 — user12345Bob / TS .... I understand that you want to give time, talents and money to your kid's school and want the satisfaction of seeing the fruits you labor. >90% of kids attend nearby schools and don't get frequently reassigned. Without growth and community assignment model that population should go to near 100%.
I've certainly been paying
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:51 — shearertwI've certainly been paying my fair share and I'm pretty sure you have a roads where you live too. I'm not suggest I have any more right to a good school than anyone else. However, if I live in a community that volunteers, raises money and goes ABOVE AND BEYOND what the "public" is funding, you have NO RIGHT to come and REMOVE public resources from that school just to bring us BACK DOWN to the state standard. You should also not advocate for "reassigning" students to that school who aren't part of that community who built it in the first place. If you do, then you are destroying what made it great and will not be doing ANYONE a favor including the kids you bused in because it NO LONGER the same school with the same community support that made it great to begin with.
Progressive taxation ONLY works well when the people paying the higher taxes are actually receiving and enjoying a higher benefit. When that breaks down, all hell break loose (i.e the current state of the USA). I don't have to leave, I'll just do what my forefathers did and fight like hell to my death to bring this country back on track.
Mr. Becko'Hannity, I think
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 17:54 — danofncMr. Becko'Hannity,
I think you said a day or so ago that you live in Holly Springs. Does that mean that all of your "if's" have just been hypothetical? Do you actually have a child that has been bused? Assigned to a school that isn't close to home?
All of the schools (except the really old ones) were built by Wake County Schools. All those shiny new schools in Holly Springs weren't built with only Holly Springs tax money.
No one has suggested taking public money away from schools who have parents who contribute more to the school. At least, no one who has any shot of ever getting a chance to set policy for the district has said that. Even so, that's always the type of argument you like to start.
YOU have to STOP thinking about how the OLD POLICY worked, and START thinking of ways to make the NEW POLICY as GREAT as possible. YOU could START by NOT acting like there WON'T be BIG DIFFERENCES in some of the ZONES. ALSO, you could RECOGNIZE that HIGH POVERTY SCHOOLS aren't GOOD PLACES, whether you refer to them as high poverty OR NOT. The definition of high poverty has NOTHING to do with WCPSS' old goal. Now, high poverty is a simple matter of MATH....80% and HIGHER is HIGH POVERTY. Schools with that much poverty that score well are featured in magazines and their principals write books and have movies made about them.
(The caps aren't really my thing, but you made it look like so much fun I thought I would give it a shot)
The caps are FUN, aren't
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 18:16 — shearertwThe caps are FUN, aren't they?
I do live in HS and my kid has never been bused away and never will as I will go to private school first.
My experience is similar to many here who see their neighborhoods torn apart by this ridiculous system. My kids were actually accepted into a magnet one year but we turned it down. We could have had the panacea of WCPSS education but in the end, it just wasn't right. I believe in community schools, communities supporting schools and so and and so forth. That concept has been destroyed in WC due to the former policy AND the current YR policy. My kids' school has been directly affected by that lack of community support and lack of parental support and involvement. Parents have NO incentive to help out at their kids schools and make a difference. Some still do, but what we see here is a fraction of what we've experienced elsewhere. Its sad really.
I get your fears about 80% high poverty schools. There are other, more effective ways of dealing with and avoiding that and that's what we need to be focused on in the future. As I said above, infringing upon the natural rights and "happiness" of others in order to achieve some altruistic goal will always fail, not to mention be morally wrong.
The good news
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 13:52 — Voice_of_Reason_Is the military and civil police authorities will be fighting right along with you if the day should come anytime soon. They haven't been brain washed or are brain dead. I think peaceful revolution is what is needed...violence plays into the left's hands.
User1234 means well, but doesn't understand reality. You can get only so much money out of the rich until everyone is poor. Some poor in this country don't realize how good they have it. Even Ben Franklin said the best way to help the poor is to make them feel poor (I paraphrased). I am all for providing opportunity, but not for providing endless help for those that squander it. Sometimes tough love is the best love.
VOR, I think it always comes
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 18:28 — user12345VOR, I think it always comes down to how much each of us thinks we owe for what we consume. I see a military that keeps me free, schools that educate my children, roads that get me to work, health officials who prevent epidemics, libraries that store books, etc. and I want to contribute since I consuming these things. I don't want to be a freeloader.
A "strict father" family revolves around the parents teaching their children how to be self-reliant and self-disciplined through "tough love". This is correlated with the following views:
A "nurturant parent" family is one that revolves around every family member caring for and being cared for by every other family member, around open communication between all parties, and around everyone pursuing their own vision of happiness. It is also correlated with the following views:
User1234 You can try but
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 22:54 — Voice_of_Reason_Reality and human nature are funny things. What might seem the best thing and the most fair thing is not always what works. Why should I work at all?, after all, I'm on a pension. What do I owe you or the nation anymore?..., after all I fought for the nation's defense. I can live comfortably on what I have, why do I need to make more? After all, what do I owe society now? I guess what I should think is what I should get from government. Of course in my case, I earned my "dole". What if everyone thought this way, even though their claim to fame is that they were born a "victim"? What misery we would all be in? We might starve literally as a society. I don't think this is out of question anymore. Our money is worth nothing in reality, it's fiat money, what if other countries start thinking that way? How can the government help everyone if it is broke. We are no longer the producer society we once were either. If we fall how many millions of other people will starve throughout the world. Just think, this destruction was done in the supposed cause of social justice, a perverse form of fairness.