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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Forcing a vote on not segregating schools

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The Wake County school board majority may have passed its community schools resolution but it may have been boxed into a bad PR position by the board minority.

As noted in today's article, the board passed the resolution by a 5-4 vote after rejecting most of the amendments proposed by the minority. But one amendment that was turned down could be a PR nightmare for the board majority.

Board member Carolyn Morrison put the majority in the position of having to vote for, or against, “a plan that ensures that schools will not become segregated.” The amendment was voted down 5-4.

“The eyes of the nation are upon us,” Morrison said.

Morrison also pointed out that the amendment might reassure the state NAACP, which has threatened to sue Wake.

Board member Keith Sutton said the amendment would go a long way toward demonstrationg Wake is adopting a voluntary segregation plan to comply with getting federal magnet grants.

But board member Debra Goldman questioned the lack of parameters to the amendment.

Malone argued that the term segregation was being used politically, which Sutton denied.

Sutton said passing the amendment would show that the district isn't supporting either racial or economic segregation.

Baord member John Tedeso sharply disagreed with the charge that ending the diversity policy will lead to resegregation.

“That doesn’t happen today," Tedesco said. "The fact is, the laws of the state of North Carolina and the federal government are sufficient to make sure that does not occur.”

Tedesco questioned the lack of a definition for what would constitute segregation. He argued the high poverty levels now in place at some schools under the diversity policy might be considered segregated.

But Morrison's amendment wasn't the first attempt by the minority members to slow down or modify the resolution.

The first attempt was an amendment from Sutton that would have essentially replaced the wording of the original resolution. The most contentious part was the wording saying that "the Board will eliminate high concentrations of low-income students in schools, which disproportionately has a negative effect on the achievement of African American and Latino students."

Tedesco said he couldn't support continue using the use of socioeconomic diversity in student assignment.

The amendment fell 5-4.

Then Anne McLaurin introduced a motion to send the resolution to the policy committee for a review. That too fell 5-4.

The third attempt was a motion from Morrison to amend to the resolution saying that prior to adopting to any changes or before moving forward with a new assignment plan, the board will hold a series of stakeholder meetings to discuss student achievement in each proposed assignment zone.

Tedesco argued the resolution already calls for hold stakeholder meetings.

The amendment is defeated 5-4.

Tedesco proposed a variation of Morrison's motion saying that the plan would be presented at public hearings before adoption. This amendment passes 5-4.

Sutton then pops out another amendment calling for a work session "to review data, cost analysis, and other information related to future student assignment policies" before adopting any policies which revise the student assignment policy. This is voted down 5-4.

It's now board member Kevin Hill's turn to propose an amendment. His says that prior to adopting the final assignment model that the board must first consider a full assement of all costs. One of the things it would look is the cost of any additional expenses associated with the creation of high p-poverty schools.

Hill's motion fails 5-4.

Undaunted Sutton pulls out another "handy dandy amendment.'

"I’m trying hard to get you to say yes to something," Sutton.

Goldman walks over to Sutton's seat and jokingly asks if he has typewriter by him.

This latest motion calls for amending the resolution to say that "the Board will not create any high poverty schools, defined as 75 percent or more of students meeting the district's definition of poverty."

Tedesco says he can't support it because the community needs to get out of the mindset that low-income kids are different and can't learn as well.

Sutton argues that low-income children "are worthy and require our special attention and effort.”

Tedesco retorts back that all children deserve our attention. He says the current system leads to low expectations for poor kids.

The motion died 5-4.

Next comes an amendment from McLaurin that she says everyone can agree on. She calls for the resolution to be amended to say that it will lead to "a plan that provides all students at all schools with an equal opportunity to a sound basic education."

Board member Deborah Prickett says “I am proud to support something from the U.S. Constitution.”

People shout out from the audience that the wording from McLaurin's amendment is from the state constitution. One person shouts out "idiot."

McLaurin's amendment passes unanimously, leading right into Morrison's segregation amendment.

I'll post all the amendments later.

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Amendments

Keung- Where are we able to see all the different amendments that that were voted down yesterday?

It's on the long list of

It's on the long list of things that I'll get to when I can.

Keung, Look On The Bright Side

Right now you might just have the most secure reporter job at the N&O!  

 

Lawsuits

Well, now Margiotta & Tedesco (our NY duo) can prepare with their personal attorney to fight upcoming lawsuits. I can't wait to hear them explain to the citizens of Wake County how much they will spend to defend their new plans and how it affects the schools and children in the county. They have dug a big hole and will fall to the bottom of it. It will be interesting to hear JT explain what is happening so his supporters can praise him again. Their idol will fall !!!!!!!!

I don't see why it should

I don't see why it should fall to just one side to shoulder the burden of explaining the legal expenses. This situation morphed from the abrasive/ negligent attitudes of both parties. I would hold everyone accountable - all BOE members, Barber, etc.

Have you contacted each of

Have you contacted each of them and asked for a one on one meeting or some time on the phone? You have 9-15 months to schedule some time.

The data shows that Policy

The data shows that Policy 6200 has not improved the scores of ED students in comparison to the vast majority of districts without a Policy 6200 (in NC and the rest of the US). So, not having that policy will not have an impact of ED performance. Also, within WCPSS, there is no difference in ED performance between schools with high F&R and those with low F&R. So, again, simply no longer trying to reduce the ED% at one school here and there will have no impact on ED performance.
Policy 6200 is just what we're NOT going to do anymore. Now its time to start discussing what we ARE going to do. Simply NOT doing Policy 6200 is not enough either. So....Jane, how about contribute to that part of the discussion?

Questions about your analysis

I admit I am not a statistician so my questions probably have very eay answers.

Was your data taken from one year or averaged over several?

Why are 23 schools not included? I know three of them are new schools, but certainly schools just as Salem Middle and Brier Creek have proficiency data. This concerns me because eight of these schools are under 20% FR and five are over 50%. Perhaps including them would change the results slightly. 

Lastly, Barwell Rd. is a one of the higher poverty schools in Wake county. I could not find it in your analysis. Why was it not included? Or please direct me to where it is in your data.

The data is for the

The data is for the 2008-2009 EOG scores.  The only reason schools were not included was because their data were not available on the NC state testing results website.  I do not know why their data is not currently available there.  I will update the date including those schools whenever it is made available. 

report.ncsu.edu/ncpublicschools/ 

However, it is very doubtful that the small number of schools not available will change the overall conclusion. 

I think you're striking a

I think you're striking a nerve here... Apparently, user can't imagine a world without labels.

Perhaps he's afraid of losing his?

confused

Why is it that those who claim the current assignment policy leads to low expectations are cheering because we will soon have a policy that guarantees low results for thousands of students? And please keep saying that Policy 6200 is a assignment policy not an academic policy, blah, blah while in the next breath blaming it for poor academic outcomes.

Still waiting for the research to support neighborhood schools. If 99% of the systems in the country use this plan it should be no problem to come up with some quality, peer-revied research to support the positive impact on achievement of all students.

Community schools

Community schools are not the same as neighborhood schools. Go look at what Arne Duncan is doing. Plenty of research there.

Community Schools

The concept of community schools was developed as a response to the failure of high poverty schools around the country, not as an excuse to allow economic resegregation of a school system. It seems to me that it is a better idea to avoid creating the high poverty school to begin with.

So which is it, do you

So which is it, do you believe they will be working with others, taking alternative positions into consideration or not? Just b/c they didn't stick with Policy 6200, which, contrary to what the N&O, you and many others hear don't seem to realize, was not a popular policy, doesn't mean they're not open to other ideas. Just not that one.

Right now?

I think they feel their select committee will bring the majority of information they need to the table.   If they feel they need it, they will determine the vehicle for obtaining the specific missing inputs they want.

I keep reading you question,

I keep reading you question, seemingly directed at me, but I don't understand. Can you clarify?

As to your post, I believe I've heard JT say time and time again, they want to work with everyone over the next 9-15 months to build a model that works for every child. The diversity policy was in the way of building a new model that actually may work as opposed to sticking with a model we know doesn't work.

Actually

JT and Mrs. Goldman made it very clear in the meeting last night that they will work with their selected committee to formulate the plan which will then be presented for public comment and feedback.   They were very specific on those details.   They were not willing to have a work meeting with the board minority or board as whole nor commit up front to incorporate any mechanism for public input during the planning phase. 

I believe there are video records on these points.

Seriously....?

I've never seen a board member more engaged and willing to put himself out there for discourse with those not in agreement with him than John Tedesco. 

Have you been paying the slightest bit of attention to what that man does weekly? Just today I read in the N&O that he agreed not to press charges on the kid who vandalized his car if the kid and his mother would agree to meet with him to discuss the issues before us.

Have you tried to contact him? Or is it just a better story line to go with what you've got?

Of course he is not paying

Of course he is not paying attention and is completely clueless about J Tedesco and his honorable approach to working with others.  He does not want to know the truth, but prefers to make up lies and attack someone who is making a difference for all students;  especially the ED.

Change, Dove is pretty clean

Change, Dove is pretty clean here. Lets calm down.

..

which is, of course, why "clueless" me posted the following "attack" several hours ago (about 8 posts below):

He is leading by example under this ideal, showing the impact a single
person can have in working for a charitable organization that provides
volunteer efforts from the community.   This is a key role he sees for
community involvement but not the remit of WCPSS.  

Is this not something that we've all jointly applauded for the most
part?

..

 

And I'm sure that committee,

And I'm sure that committee, JT and Goldman will be sequestered away like a jury in a murder trial, not taking phone calls or emails or be willing to sit down and discuss any of this with anyone until their plan is released.  They'll also not likely take anything that has ever been said by anyone else thus far into consideration.

Perhaps what you'd rather have them do is invite 100 of Rev Barber's drones and clowns into a room and let'em all hash it out.  

A selected committee is how you actually get something done. 

I did not say that.

I just restated what was said by the board last night.  If you elect to interpret their statements to that extreme, that is your choice, not mine.

 

Something positive

Dove - consider your name. :) Lay down an olive branch. Get together a group of 12 - 15 friends and find a time in the next year when Ms. Goldman and Mr. Tedesco might come and meet with you, maybe more than once. I bet they would try.

It Would Be A Better Use Of Their Time

to discuss these issues in PUBLIC where we can all hear their answers and solutions. 

I hope Dove does organize

I hope Dove does organize such a gathering and have an opportunity to talk with Tedesco, Goldman, etc. And Dove, if you don't get the members time, we will bug SDR to make it happen. :)

I Hope...

Harry_Moncelle

I would like to be part of that meeting if and when it happens.  Just for a thought has Mr. Tedesco ever taught in a high poverty school?  I'm not speaking attending I am speaking about teaching in a school that is high poverty, that does not have the resources to meet student needs? 

 I began my career as an educator working in the 4th poorest school district in the United States.  I'm very surprised that the majority of Wake County wants to create a these kinds of schools.

I'm pondering.

Would really like to find some people from the Ligon / Enloe base assignment area and understand some of the questions asked here -- what would they like to see and what do they expect to see.

Watch that space.   Problem is, I'm no activist so have to start at the beginning and figure it out.

"the Board will not create any high poverty schools,

defined as 75 percent or more of students meeting the district's definition of poverty." Tedesco says he can't support it because the community needs to get out of the mindset that low-income kids are different and can't learn as well.

NO ONE disputes the fact that all children can learn; however, to ignore problems that have adversely impacted other high poverty schools is puzzling. The success of this initiative requires listening and willingness to compromise. Thus far, it appears the only voice Mr Tedsco hears, is his own.

"Thus far, it appears the

This suggests his forward plan.

Conjecturing in the absence of actualfactual information, I think Tedesco truly believes the burden is on the shoulders of each individual child to make the most of their circumstance and not count on any assistance from anyone.    He also sees a burden on each parent to become a supporter of whatever school their child attends.   And he sees the community as a source of voluntary assistance.   He sees WCPSS as having no role in assisting a child to achieve beyond providing the school facility and course options.   Teachers will know and willingly take on the burden of teaching in a school independent of the poverty level within a school.  He will challenge the children directly as he sees this as how to provide them with a sense of self-worth assuming that they will succeed when given this challenge.

Happens to be inexpensive for WCPSS as well.

Take Responsibility

"Conjecturing in the absence of actualfactual information, I think Tedesco truly believes the burden is on the shoulders of each individual child to make the most of their circumstance and not count on any assistance from anyone. He also sees a burden on each parent to become a supporter of whatever school their child attends. And he sees the community as a source of voluntary assistance. He sees WCPSS as having no role in assisting a child to achieve beyond providing the school facility and course options. Teachers will know and willingly take on the burden of teaching in a school independent of the poverty level within a school. He will challenge the children directly as he sees this as how to provide them with a sense of self-worth assuming that they will succeed when given this challenge."

 There is absolutely nothing wrong with this point of view. It is not the school system’s or any form of government’s responsibility to solve social ills. It is the school system’s responsibility to educate our children. We could spend infinite amounts of dollars on the education process, but whether a child succeeds or not is determined by only on thing – a choice. The child needs to choose to succeed and take responsibility for achieving the goals they set for themselves.

An utter lack of personal responsibility has gotten us in the mess we are in today not only locally, but nationally and globally. Stop asking what can the government do for you and start taking responsibility for yourself.

The trouble with ideology is

The trouble with ideology is that it rarely works out in the real world.

"It is not the school system’s or any form of government’s
responsibility to solve social ills. It is the school system’s
responsibility to educate our children."

Of course. But how much harder is it to educate children who are tired, or hungry, or poorly clothed, or etc? We know from commonsense as parents and (much more reliably) from many careful studies that solving certain social ills, like offering a free breakfast, or providing transportation to people who cannot drive their children to school, helps kids learn. 

Children are CHILDREN. Surely you can't expect all of them to have the wisdom, fortitude and skill necessary to overcome all sorts of setbacks--on their own.

This kind of rigid ideology sounds great when talking about equally well-equipped adults--say you and me--but it is nonsensical when talking about kindergarteners.

 

It is tough to teach a tired

It is tough to teach a tired and hungry child. I see these children at the school I volunteer. It bothers me that these children make limited to no progress. It is almost as if they were preordained to stay in an orbit of mediocrity and we offer them perfunctory support. The teacher is a dedicated professional but I wonder how much success a person would have when the child gets up very early and arrives at school hungry and sleepy.

Funny

I wasn't aware I was asking the government to do anything for me.   Just conjecturing on Tedesco's ideas.  In some other thread, I noted what I expected from WCPSS and trust me, it oddly matches this.  If interested, feel free to find and read.   What other accusation(s) would you care to hurl?

Lets talk about this

We've asked Tedesco so many times for clarification, and the board has asked him so many times for clarification, that I am afraid your suggestion is the most logical. The part I don't get is that he has said more resources will be directed to high poverty schools. How is that possible, in our real world situation?

If he truly believed that,

If he truly believed that, he wouldn't work for BB/BS.  He wouldn't be trying to recruit mentors for disadvantged kids. 

I'm unsure of that

During his interaction with Mr Sutton at the meeting, this area was briefly mentioned.  I can't remember the exact words, hopefully others can fill in the blank, but  Mr. Tedesco said that schools and non-profits serve different customers base, therefore, there is no conflict between the two roles. Those are my words, not his.

No So

If you look at the community school model that Arne is pushing and which JT subscribes to the schools would be open to the likes of the YMCA and Boys and Girls Club without cost in exchange for the community programs they provide. - The idea is these non profits would offer mentoring and additional education opportunities - tutoring....ect.  So they do in fact serve an overlapping customer base. 

 

 

This is what I thought he would say; however,

during his exchange with Mr Sutton, he went a totally different direction.  However, I will review that section of the meeting on WRAL;  Hopefully, I misunderstood what he said.  If others remember that interchange, please chime in. 

This afternoon he was on the radio and he was asked about programs he would support and he gave some vague response;  Again, I am somewhat puzzled.

Sorry, I should have

Sorry, I should have clarified.  I was responding to this statement in Dove's post:

I think Tedesco truly believes the burden is on the shoulders of each
individual child to make the most of their circumstance and not count
on any assistance from anyone. 

If he didn't think that the kids should be able to count on anybody else to help them then why would he work for BB/BS?  

I think the point is that he

I think the point is that he doesn't want the school district to be responsible to provide extra help to these students. He wants help to come to them voluntarily through non-profits. Nice in theory but I don't think it addresses the likelihood of additional high poverty schools that will be created in a neighborhood zone plan.

Thanks for clarifying

Thanks for clarifying that.  I'm kind of dense today I guess. Still tired from yesterday.  :-)

I don't agree with that assessment.  

I beg to differ

He is leading by example under this ideal, showing the impact a single person can have in working for a charitable organization that provides volunteer efforts from the community.   This is a key role he sees for community involvement but not the remit of WCPSS.  

Is this not something that we've all jointly applauded for the most part?

I think Tedesco truly

I think Tedesco truly believes the burden is on the shoulders of each individual child to make the most of their circumstance

That may be why he has not gotten any support in the Black and Hispanic community .... he is White guy who pulled himself up by his boot straps which may not be convincing to non-Whites .... so, we need to be cautious that just because he was poor, he was also White which gave him leg up over minorities which may be why he is getting so little support from those he is trying to help.

Really pathetic!!

Try saying that to all the white seniors this year who know full well that there are minorites getting into UNC-Chapel Hill that have lower GPA'a lowers SAT scores, etc...it is widely talked about....well 'if I were black or hispanic..." do you not even stop for  a minute and think that this is unfair or is it just justified in your small minded view of the world.  Basically your saying diveristy is great as long as it is your definition of diversity and it is ok to have discrimination as long as it is against "whitey"!  You know, things will never EVER get better in race relations as long as there are people like you in the world!

Maybe it seems higher to you

Maybe it seems higher to you ... Wake is only 50% White ... so not seeing all White students might appear unusual to you if you did not know that.

Categories

There you go again categorizing by atribute.....

White guy, Black and

White guy, Black and Hispanic community, non-whites....Why are you placing a label on everyone? We should be seeing Wake County Students and doing what is best for them, not subdividing them into arbritary categories then deciding what is best.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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