Chris Fitzsimon is painting last night's vote by the Wake County school board majority in stark racial terms as he labels their actions as "madness."
In a column today, Fitzsimon, executive director of the liberal N.C. Policy Watch, notes how Tuesday's vote in favor of community-based schools was by "an all-white majority." He said he's hoping their decision "will not stand."
"An all-white majority voting over the protests of demonstrators and civil rights leaders to pack poor and minority kids into high-poverty schools on the poor side of town and insultingly claiming, like their historical predecessors, that it's in the best interests of all the children when they surely know it's not true," Fitzsimon writes. "Shame on them."
In a not-so veiled reference to conservative businessman Art Pope, Fitzsimon writes that there's no lingering doubts that the board majority "bowed to the wishes of their right-wing campaign contributors and wealthy anti-public education zealots and the think-tanks they fund." He points to how they rejected the motions proposed by the board minority.
Comments
Well, Chris Fitzsimons
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 10:26 — woodstockWell, Chris Fitzsimons certainly knows about madness, I will give him that. The poor guy is heading deeper into it as time goes by. His anger has narrowed his vision to a mere pinhole and he cannot see that he is a man alone in his outrage. The fact is, community schools are the future of education. They focus on the educational, social, and behavioral needs of individual students and provides the stability and attention that so many at-risk students lack and that all students can benefit from.
It is a new and better day in Wake County thanks to the intelligence, persistance, and character of our new board members. I cannot wait until the next BoE election cycle when the parents and taxpayers can take back the reamining board seats from the sad and visionless remnants of the status quo.
One more thing
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 07:45 — turnerk1I meant to add also, Jenman, that Hunter and Ligon are both AG basics schools and they do treat AG and non-AG students differently. Though this does correlate to magnet vs. base overall (though certainly not entirely) it is just one model for magnet schools. As you say at Ligon this problem is being addressed.
chaboard
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:30 — JaneknowsbestIn response to your comment:
Our numbers won't get *as* bad as CMS because the overall demographics are a bit better.....
That may be true short-term. But if you look at what's happened in CMS since the advent of their neighborhood assignment system you will see that the number of middle class families in CMS has dropped 25 points. There has been massive middle class flight out of CMS.
CMS's demographics 10 years ago were very similar to WCPSS. And Wake and Mechlenberg don't look all that different demographically. But CMS used to be around 58% middle class white kids, now that number has dropped to 33%. Absolutely no reason to believe the same won't happen here.
Does that mean
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 23:14 — local23the minority is then white kids? Would that also mean that eventually more schools will contain less white kids and more majority of black, asian, hispanic, multi, etc?
Charlotte-Mecklenburg Stats
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:27 — kbrooks500Mecklenburg county is 61% white, and 29.2 % black
The Charlotte-Mecklenburg(CMS) school system is 42% African American, 35% white, 15% hispanic 4% asian and 4% American Indian or multi-racial. More than 50% of students receive free/reduced priced meals(ED).
167 schools: 5 schools <10% ED
20 schools 10-19.99% ED
14 schools 20-29.99% ED
13 schools 30-39.99% ED
13 schools 40-49.99% ED
13 schools 50-59.99% ED
19 schools 60-69.99% ED
23 schoos 70-79.99% ED
24 schools 80-89.99% ED
19 schools 90-100% ED
these totals exclude pre-kindergarten schools which don't have an ED % and apparently special/alternative schools
lowest ED: Providence Springs Elem. 2.24%
highest ED: Devonshire 96.84%
An example of academic achievement:
3rd grade reading 2008-09 Devonshire 25.9% at or above grade level on EOG: Providence Springs Elem. 100% at or above grade level on EOG.
58 schools meet the nat'l definition of a high poverty school - ED >75%.
An example of academic
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 08:42 — Eric_BWhy don't you look a little closer to home?
At Hunter Elementary on the 3rd grade reading EOG for 2008-09, only 16.2% of ED students were proficient.
At Devonshire, 34.9% of ED students were proficient on the same test.
BTW, where did you get your info? When I look at report.ncsu.edu, I see different data:
2008-09 End-of-Grade Test Results
Performance of Students Tested
Grade 3 Reading
Charlotte/Mecklenburg School System
Devonshire Elementary
43.8
2008-09 End-of-Grade Test Results
Performance of Students Tested
Grade 3 Reading
Wake School System
Hunter Elementary
BTW, how much more evidence
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 08:49 — Eric_BBTW, how much more evidence do you need of "school within a school" in our magnets then the results for Hunter on the 2008-09 3rd grade reading EOG that I posted?
16.2% of ED students passed while 93.5% of NED students passed. We should be ashamed...
Can't argue with that
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 10:15 — kbrooks500I can't argue with your results. Hunter's scores are atrocious.
I got my results from www.ncreportcards.org
disag.ncpublicschools.org/2009
and from CMS website. They CMS data was from 2007-08. My apologies I thought it was from last year. I wish I could explain why the data does not match. My data shows Hunter gr 3 reading at 18.9% level 3/4 - still terrible though.
Honestly, I say this with caution because I do not want to offend anyone. I see Hunter's scores and clearly there is a problem. I believe all teacher's have strengths and weaknesses, and some are better with certain populations of students. That being said, it makes sense to me that teachers at Hunter and other AG magnets would need to be good at reaching AG kids. To me this is a reason why AG magnets should NOT have a base population. AG magnets are truly specialized. I don't think it necessarily applies to all magnets. A leadership magnet, IB and enhanced arts programming can benefit any student IMO.
I see your point, but my
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 14:40 — ApexterI see your point, but my thinking goes in the other direction. I think it is wrong to treat AG as a magnet program. The needs of AG children should be properly addressed in every school, and not rationed by means of a magnet program.
In the event that there is not a large enough population of AG kids in a given school to effectively offer them services, they should be afforded the option to transfer --- with transportation --- to a designated nearby school with AG services.
Based on a post by turek(?),
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 13:03 — red_balloonBased on a post by turek(?), I have a question on the "school within a school" situation. Does this condition occur on account of grouping by abilities or is there something deliberate and unconscionable at play here?
This is what klanders has
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 20:40 — loriacThis is what klanders has been posting about - that the F&R designation is used to label students and steer them to lower courses. Over time , they lose ground.
If we believe that every child is ready to learn, then I think we need to lose the F&R label.
Yes
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 11:22 — Dove314National demographic trends, not just local, show the current "white" ethnic majority is on the decline due to significant projected growth in the composite of other ethnicities. There is an article floating about somewhere specific to Wake County I believe.
It was interesting to see that Union County NC had more growth as a county than Wake. Is this related to the "higher SES" flight out of CMS?
"liberal" NC Policy Watch ...
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 20:30 — essequamvideriFinally, the organization is correctly described, just as the John Locke Foundation is correctly described by the N&O as "conservative". Thank you.
So interesting to talk about money. Who funds NC Policy Watch? It's a project of the NC Justice Center. Who sits on their board - Orage Quarles, publisher of the N&O, "Rev Dr" Barber of the George Soros-funded NAACP, and Gene Nichol, head of the fake Poverty Center at UNC & writer of POV articles for the N&O. And NC Justice Center funded that pesky little group, ACORN.
So who's been giving the "left-wing campaign contributors and wealthy anti-public education zealots and the think-tanks they fund" free publicity? Those wicked, wicked capitalists of the Left, Quarles & Goodmon of WRAL. Oh, filthy lucre!
Since we're all so interested in labeling everyone here, time to tell the truth about the Left.
Somehow it's perfectly all right for uber-billionaire George Soros to fund scores of foundations & non-profits - the Open Society Institute alone received $438 Mil in 2008, which they then funnelled to the NAACP & other org's - but Art Pope is the Anti-Christ to the hypocritical Left.
Now where were all these high-minded Leftists all the years Del Burns & the mayor's wife & the rest of the clueless Lefties on the school board, when graduation rates were falling for minorities?
Hello? Anybody home?
And then we have claims of "racial separation" by Mr. Iwaniszek:
"The board knows full well that high poverty schools will result from their actions. This will produce defacto segregation due to the historic patterns of racial seperation that still persist today. Anyone with eyes can see that"
Really? I've got eyes & I certainly don't equate "high poverty schools" with "defacto (sic) segregation" due to "racial seperation (sic)". Somehow he's made the illogical leap that "high poverty" means racial segregation.
My my my ... there's a whole lot of judging going on here, and it ain't coming from the conservatives.
here are more stats
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 17:32 — kbrooks500Using 2008-09 date from Charlotte schools
Providence Springs EL. 1.8% ED, 4% black, 82.5% white, 3% hispanic, 8.1% asian 2.4% other
Reid Park EL. 97% ED, 91.2% black, 0.4% white, 3.5% hispanic, 1.9% asian, 3.0% other
There are many more examples. All the schools with a ED% <10 had a combined black/hispanic population of less than 15%
All schools with ED >90% had a white population of 7.3% or less. combined black and hispanic population was always >80%.
What do you call this? I see it as racial and economic segregaton as a result of neighborhood schools and the continued abandonment of the Charlotte schools by middle class white families.
What?
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:03 — commongoodDo you not realize that there is a relationship between race and poverty? This is fact, not judgement.
There is an enormous
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 12:22 — woodstockThere is an enormous difference in a "relationship" to something and causation. Recognizing that a relationship exists does not identify a causation.
Relationship?
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:33 — Duhhuh666Last time I checked poverty was avalible to all races.
Is there? What about in
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:29 — loriacIs there? What about in rural Wake County, outside the beltline?
Loriac, A few years ago,
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 07:23 — jenmanLoriac,
A few years ago, when I first started noticing how East Wake schools were allowed to be high poverty and nobody seemed to care, my initial thought was "Is it because its not black poverty? Is white poverty somehow viewed as OK and black poverty seen as being worse?" But when I looked at demographics, I was surprised to see that the more rural areas were not mostly white. Plenty of black families.
Back in the midwest, that wasn't the case. Rural areas are overwhelmingly white, which isn't true around here. It still surprises me sometimes to see black families when we're driving through more rural areas. You just don't see that back where I'm from. Blacks are mostly in the cities. Not making a judgement, just an observation.
It was just another regional difference that I didn't expect when we moved out here. Just like I didn't expect the sky to be so different here. I took a photog class when I first moved here and the teacher mentioned having been in the midwest and how he was so amazed at the storm clouds. I said "YES!" because that was something I had noticed too. Thunderstorms are very different here than they were back there. I expected hotter weather, a slower pace, southern accents, different food & culture. But not a different sky. :-)
Low income at or above grade level in Math and Reading
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 20:26 — TKDMomBrentwood Elem 34.3 %
Creech Road Elem 25.8%
Fox Road Elem 30.2 %
Smith Elem 28.7 %
Wakelon Elem 22.3 %
Looks like higher poverty schools are not a good idea. I hope John T can help them now and not in 3 to 6 years.
LOL
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:35 — Duhhuh666So much for the miracles of diversity! Now you are asking John T. to fix it now? After the vigils the protest..now the ugly truth comes out.
Curious
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 12:01 — Dove314Duhhuh666 -- Do you claim membership in either the WSCA or WakesCares?
Dove my answer should be
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 14:41 — Duhhuh666Dove my answer should be "Why would what groups I am a member of matter?" But since you asked I will answer. No I am not a member of the above mentioned groups. I am a live long Wake county resident, attended both private and WCPSS, attended a state college in NC and VA. Proud parent of 3 students who have and are attending WCPSS. I have been active in school board politics for over 20 years.
Thank you for sharing a bit.
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 17:26 — Dove314I'm not a lifelong Wake Resident but have lived in the area for more than 20 yrs. I'm a public school kid from a high poverty, minority white area west of the Mississippi. Proud parent of two, one in HS, one in college. I'm a cynic of anything political, particularly of school boards past or present. I have low expectations for every school board and think WCPSS has tended to do as well as it has despite the various boards not because of them. I've had near knock down, drag outs with student assignment. I tend to spend my energy with the teachers as they are the ones who really make a difference; occasionally a principal but they are a mixed lot. IMO, the system would be much better off if it were bottom up instead of politically managed but that'll never happen.
The Fix
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:45 — TKDMomJohn T is the only person so far to say he has the "answer" just wondering how long before he actually starts to "fix" schools. Talk is cheap.
Well, at least you recognize
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 10:54 — woodstockWell, at least you recognize that our schools need fixing and that the status quo policies were not getting it done.
Yes
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:55 — Duhhuh666And based on your data you should be outraged at the members of the board (Hill and McLaurin) who let these schools get to this level of "high poverty" they controlled the system for years and allowed this to happen but now you demand John T. fix it now. Well I have more faith in John fixing it than the 2 mentioned above.
With 57 schools currently
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 23:00 — CaryCurmudgeonWith 57 schools currently over the "magic" 40% mark, I cannot imagine how many thousands of students would have to be bused in order to comply with policy 6200. It would be a nightmare.
Yep. From Gerald Wright's
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 07:10 — jenmanYep. From Gerald Wright's GSIW presentation:
Second, the Board should have taken whatever steps
necessary to fulfill its own balance policy. Too many schools were allowed to get out of balance in recent years. Scores fell and achievement gaps widened.
Whatever steps necessary? We all know (even various WCPSS staff have admitted this at times) that this county does not have the stomach for what it would take to balance all the schools. Among other things, this would mean ITB and North Raleigh families being bused out to Knightdale or even further east and those east wake families being bused into Raleigh. WCPSS knows that it cannot do this. Middle class families will not stand for this and will leave in droves.
We can't even get Lacy families to go to Stough or Wildwood Forest familes to go to Fox Road. These schools are just a few miles apart. Does anybody really think that people are going to be willing to leave the schools they have supported and been a part of for years to go to schools 15 or 20 miles away? Schools that aren't offering magnet extras?
It is time for new solutions.
All of the arguments in
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 17:08 — johniwaniszekAll of the arguments in favor of the board's actions were refuted:
Halting the "busing" of minuscule portion of the 140,000 students who are transported to reinforce diversity will have no impact on Wake County's education costs.
The plans will create high poverty schools and low poverty schools. The Board knows this, knows the problems these cause educationally and economically, yet they did it anyway.
There are less drastic measures to take to correct deficiencies in the system.
The system-wide change will cost more, but the amount is unknown and the board refuses to investigate them before taking action
Research was presented demonstrating the problems associated with high-poverty schools.
The Board's own survey showed that most parents are very happy with their current school and the system.
Despite these facts, the Board decided to tear down the system and start from scratch. Their reasons were never clear and no compromise was allowed. This is very bad governance on their part and with luck they will get what they deserve in the next few rounds of elections.
Is this kindof like
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 23:21 — local23our new Health care law signed by the President?
High Cost
Higher Taxes
Not sure how to enforce
Another gov't committee to provide oversight
Benefits will be reduced
Deductibles and co-insurance will be higher for pre-existing conditions
and the list goes on
I don't think you can
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 07:56 — johniwaniszekI don't think you can support any of those assertions. Also you left out the deficit reduction impact and the increased coverage of over 30 million currently uninsured. Otherwise, thanks for playing.
Ironic. This idea/approach
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 16:10 — DrActualFactualIronic. This idea/approach (community schools) comes from Obama's Arne Duncan--not someone I would associate with those you mentioned above.
Have you emailed Arne and
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 16:18 — allkidsfirstHave you emailed Arne and asked him if he supports community schools in a resegregation plan? Or does he support them to fix the existing disaster of High Poverty Schools. Unless they are choice-enrolled they AREN'T WORKING. Only charter schools that skim of the top 40 percent of kids with supportive families are successful as high poverty schools.
Email
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 16:51 — Duhhuh666Has anyone emailed him to ask if he supports community schools as a way to hurt puppies? Yes this statement is as idiotic as the one you made. No one is supporting resegregation, rhetoric and hyperbole do not advance your arguement. Research the school system Mr. Duncan successfully ran and you will see it was not a bus for diversity but a community based system.
Resegregation is what will happen
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 17:13 — johniwaniszekThe board knows full well that high poverty schools will result from their actions. This will produce defacto segregation due to the historic patterns of racial seperation that still persist today. Anyone with eyes can see that.
"The board knows full well
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 20:29 — Apexter"The board knows full well that high poverty schools will result from
their actions."
Perhaps they also know full well that relying on the "diversity" policy will also result in high poverty schools --- and they have proof of that rather than conjecture.
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ROAD ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ROAD ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ROAD ELEMENTARY
HIGH SCHOOL
GARNER ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
BEND ELEMENTARY
MIDDLE
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
OAKS MIDDLE SCHOOL
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
WAKE MIDDLE
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
MIDDLE
GARNER MIDDLE
ROAD ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
MIDDLE
MILLBROOK MIDDLE
ELEMENTARY
MYRA ELEMENTARY
DRIVE ELEMENTARY
SQUARE MUSEUM MIDDLE
WAKE HIGH CAMPUS (700, 701, 702, 703)
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
SPRINGS ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
ELEMENTARY
GARNER MIDDLE
VERNON SCHOOL
ELEMENTARY
MIDDLE
RIDGE ELEMENTARY
CREEK MIDDLE
MINE ELEMENTARY
education rather than maintaining the oft-repeated lie that "The WCPSS
Diversity policy does not allow the percentage of any schools to rise
above 40%."
So What Is Your Definition Of "HIgh Poverty"
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:00 — chaboardCharlotte/Mecklenberg has 11 over 90% (it was 0 when they switched to "community schools") and 44 over 60%. As you yourself just posted we have only 1 over 70% (and that's special circumstances) and 10 over 60% (nearly half of those only a few percentage points over). [CMS numbers are 2007, probably worse now]
Our numbers won't get *as* bad as CMS because the overall demographics are a bit better.....but you're in full-blown denial if you don't think that what we will have here won't be a full on explosion in the number of high poverty school. What we have now is nothing compared to where the new board wants to take us.
What are there "At Grad level" Percentages for F&R?
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 20:42 — TKDMomIf they are low then that shows that high F&R schools don't work.
"If they are low then that
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 20:58 — Apexter"If they are low then that shows that high F&R schools don't work."
Not necessarily, because the percentage of F&R kids in the school is not the only factor involved.
A number of those schools have been whipsawed around a lot over the past few years, with kids reassigned left and right, calendar changes, etc. Also, these schools could have had a number of students leaving for magnet schools, and those students will normally be higher performing students. (Yes, I know that magnet acceptance policies tend to work against that now, but if you got started early enough and had an anchor sibling, younger siblings would be guaranteed a chance to go to a magnet.)
I'm not saying that we should seek to go after high poverty schools. I'm just pointing out that it's a joke to pretend that the "diversity policy" tried very hard to prevent them.
Neighborhood Schools will be WORSE!!!
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:16 — commongoodYou haven't seen high poverty schools until you see what results from neighborhood schools. The percentages will MUCH higher and so will the failure rates. That's the point.
Better
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:44 — Duhhuh666We have not seen the results of a community based system, we have seen the results of forced busing for diversity. And from the recent post we see the old system didnt work! Claiming changing it will make things worse is a poor arguement...some of us want to make it better not keep it from getting worse.
On The Contrary, It's A Joke To
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:02 — chaboardpretend that the diversity *didn't* prevent them. Our number of high poverty schools is very low.
The socioeconomic diversity
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 23:02 — ApexterThe socioeconomic diversity policy was introduced in 2000. Before the policy was implemented, we had 13 elementary schools that exceeded 40% --- and at nowhere near the levels that some schools now reach.
I'll grant you that the district-wide percentage of F&R students was lower then --- IIRC, about 28% vs. the current 31%.
I just think it's hypocritical that we pretend that the diversity policy has PREVENTED high poverty schools, and allow the statement that "WCPSS policy prevents schools having more than 40% F&R" go unchallenged.
High low
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 22:48 — Duhhuh666Low high, jumbo shrimp, tallest short person, skinniest fat person...nice spin. But the results of the current system speak for themselves, after decades of implementation we still have high poverty schools, the same high poverty school you say prevent students from learning, some how we have them after decades of a failed policy.
Agree!
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 23:27 — local23If everyone will just stop for a moments and realize this is a great chance to do better than any other or mimic the districts that are doing this great job already with high poverty schools and community based schools.
we have a low poverty rate, great businesses and social programs (state seat), great schools and minds to put our system really on the map instead of shuffling kids around to make all schools look mediocre - kids come first and let this BOE and their staff and the parents and the committess try to do the job and realize that it may take many different types of solutions with different types of schools and children. You know the saying, if at first you don't succeed..then try something different! WE ARE TRYING!
I absolutely agree. We
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 13:25 — jenmanI absolutely agree. We have an amazing opportunity here. We have such a wealth of resources in this county that we can make great use of. And I don't mean just monetary. The people, the leaders, the opportunities, etc. This is a community that cares about education. It might not always seem that way since we don't fund them very well, but people care.
Instead of saying "stop! Everything you're doing is going to be horrible!", how about saying I still have those fears but I'm not going to shout about it. Instead "Let's make sure everybody's needs are met" and make sure that those needs are really heard, understood, and met.
I just have to point out
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 14:33 — Dove314We can conjecture here all we want, We can come up with ridiculous ideas to spectacular ideas but it is the board and their committee who are doing the planning not the people on this blog. If the board and the committee really wanted any input, why were all the amendments rejected including ones specific to obtaining input?
Is it really a matter of "who you know" to give feedback to the committee? Is someone collating ideas that pop-up here on the Wake-Ed blog and providing them to Eric to take back to the committee or to the board? Is the same happening for WSCA meetings? JT's attendence was by choice at both the GSIW meeting and the WSCA meeting so I commend him for attending both events.
Unfortunately, by definition, we're all affluent enough to have a computer and have the time available to spend on this issue. People who were at the board meeting had the ability to take time off in the middle of the day to speak. It just seems that there are a lot of parties that haven't been heard from, aren't represented on the committee, and with no planned mechanism to include them in the planning. Should there be something more systematic and broad than informal meetings of political lobbying organizations and a blog?
Apologies for continuing to harp on getting input from everyone if you want to build consensus.
I don't have a direct line
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 14:57 — jenmanI don't have a direct line to give feedback. I know that some members of our group know him better than other members do and I would imagine that there are a few who know him well enough to be in contact with him about ideas and such. Just like any other board member I guess. I'm sure that each member of the assignment committee will be collecting ideas from their friends, neighbors, blogs, email loops, etc and presenting them.
At our meeting last night, JT mentioned that he had been talking to James West and Dan Coleman about being on the student achievement committee. So there are connections being made with different people/groups/areas in the county. (BTW, I think Kristen already mentioned this but we didn't expect JT at the meeting.) We didn't plan it that way.
I know that we disagree on who should be taking the lead on this. Well actually, I agree with you that the board should be taking the lead on building consensus but since that's not happening right now I think its up to us to do it. Last night's meeting was a good start, this blog is a good start. Like you said, we can come up with all these great ideas but we're not the ones doing the planning. But what if after meeting and talking with each other a little more, WE approach the board with ideas? Or if WE approach the board with an idea about how we think community input sessions can work? I mean, if we start meeting with each other we can maybe learn which formats are good/not so good for generating discussion or ideas.
I guess I'd love to see at the very least, a statement from a group of us basically saying "look, we've got to start talking with each other. This is what we've started to do and we ask that the board do the same with each other. And we ask the rest of the community to do the same. Stop yelling at each other and lets start talking to each other". Something along those lines.
I guess I can empathize with all of the board members. I honestly can't imagine how hard it would be to try to have a give and take, back and forth with an audience yelling at you. Both sides were getting yelled at. "Don't do it, Keith. Don't trust him. Its a trick" or "Yeah, sure you care about poor people". I was disappointed when Keith voted no on that one amendment after Morrison voted yes. I forget which one because there were so many amendments. Anyway, how much pressure must those 9 people be under? So much scrutiny for every word and gesture.
We can go back and forth all day on which board members should be doing this or that or whose fault it is. But I think that if we the public try to tone it down at the meetings & in general, we can set an example. We can speak at the board meeting and say, look we know this is hard but we're going to support all of you by trying our best to build consensus among ourselves. Maybe that will help you too."
Ok, I'm rambling now. I do see your point. I really do. I hope you can see mine and join me (us) in building that consensus and trying to reach out to everybody else.
Yes Yes Yes!
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 09:43 — JanisTangoWell said. Let's stop pretending to be the best and try some new approaches and actually become the best.