It took eight months, but the Wake County school board was finally able to agree on passing a middle school math placement policy.
As noted in today's article, the policy got over the hump when staff proposed a number of changes to both the policy and the placement criteria that win over the support of Democratic board members Christine Kushner and Keith Sutton to form a majority with Republicans on the issue. Click here for the adopted policy and here for the revised placement criteria.
"We raised our concerns and staff came up with some good suggestions to them that it was enough for me to support the policy," Kushner said.
As you guys may recall, Kushner had voted in favor of fellow Democratic board member Jim Martin's motion to kill the policy. Sutton had voted against the first incarnation of the policy in the fall and had backed tabling the motion until after the elections.
Staff didn't back down on using 70 percent as the floor for EVAAS probability of success for placing students.
"We believe that casting a wider net is more important,” said Ruth Steidinger, senior director of middle school programs. “It helps to fix some of the issues that we had previously about not capturing all students who have potential.”
Steidinger said that using 70 percent would enroll more students who have potential to do the harder material but who don't have the advocates who'd recommend placement if a higher score was used.
But staff agreed to put in the placement criteria wording saying that school administration must meet with families of students with probability scores of 70 percent to 79 percent to tell them that support options such as tutoring are available.
"They didn't raise the 70 percent line, but this is better," Sutton said.
Staff also answered Sutton's concerns by including wording in the criteria saying that principals will “ensure that all students have equal access to quality teaching.” Sutton had wanted some kind of wording on that topic after staff analysis showed that passing rates last school year were much higher for the 70-79 percent EVAAS eighth-graders in Algebra I who were placed with an average or above-average teacher.
Kushner said she was especially supportive of wording in the placement criteria saying that students won't be recommended for higher placement if it meant they'd skip courses.
Even though he didn't vote for the policy, staff made a policy revision sought by Martin adding wording that teachers could recommend students be placed in lower courses than indicated by the data. Before the revision, the policy had only said parents could make that request for a lower placement.
"If a student regularly, for example, is not doing their homework a teacher’s going to know that," Martin said. "They might place well but if they don’t have discipline to do your work, you’re sure not going to learn the math.
And a teacher is going to know that even if it doesn’t show up on an exam. Again, that’s not giving the teacher authority to make it happen, it’s giving the teacher authority to say, ‘Hey principal, please take a look at this situation, here’s my documentation.'”
But ultimately, the 70 percent figure was too low for Martin and fellow Democratic board members Susan Evans and Kevin Hill to back the policy.
Evans said that EVAAS hasn't been around that long so "we can’t possibly have enough statistical data to know how on target it is." She said using a higher figure would get more buy in and make the policy less contentious.
While not used by Wake for long, a staff member said EVAAS been around for many years.
Martin painted a grim picture of what he said could happen by allowing students with 70 to 79 percent probability in the higher math courses. He estimated that 60 to 70 percent of the kids identified as ready by EVAAS would be in the one-year accelerated class with the top 10 percent in the two-year accelerated course.
“I can tell you from the classroom perspective, you teach that wide of a spectrum, you’re either dumbing it down for the kids at the top or you’re completely overwhelming the kids the bottom," Martin said during the board work session. "This is exactly why they shouldn't be all placed in the same class. We need to recognize there’s a difference."
In interviews Wednesday, Kushner, Steidinger and Sutton downplayed talk that the advanced courses would be dumbed down.
"I don't think our teachers and principals would do that to the curriculum," Kushner said. "I trust them to carry out the intent of the board policy."
Martin continued his criticism of the 70 percent figure during the regular meeting.
Martin gave the example of how he has his N.C. State freshmen chemistry students do a problem in which they calculate the IV solution for a patient. While there's some chemistry involved, Martin said that it's mostly using algebra.
Martin said that typically one-third to one-half of his students get the problem wrong and the patient dies.
Martin linked his IV example to a scatter plot of scale scores for the 98 eighth-graders in the 70-79 percent probability range who were placed in Algebra I in the 2010-11 school year.
Martin said the scatter plot showed only four of the students scored a Level IV and that many who did pass were on the low side of Level III.
"I want to see a foundation of math so that we actually get the learning we need because there is a liability issue down the road," Martin said. "And I look at this barely 25 percent of these children are getting the foundation that they need for success in mathematics. I want to see success, that’s what I care about. I don’t see that with this number.
That’s why I think the 70 percent cutoff, this data even further supports that that cutoff is inappropriate. We’re not preparing the students that we need for the workforce, for college readiness. We’re substantially disadvantaging them if we’re pushing this cohort too early. We need to build the foundation.”
Steidinger said that the scatter plot needs to be put into the context of how some of those students were placed in Algebra I without having taken regular eighth-grade math. She said the new placement criteria covers that by not allowing students to skip classes.
Steidinger also cautioned that the 98 students represent a very small sample size and are the students who were probably at greatest risk.
Noting that they've made "great strides in helping math teachers know how to teach math students differently," she said that the scatter plot doesn't provide clear evidence that the 70-79 percent students can't be successful.
"This doesn’t present to me in a glaring fashion that 70-79 percent kids can’t be successful," Steidinger said.
Martin wasn't convinced, arguing that the students should have waited until ninth-grade to take Algebra I after getting reinforcement in regular eighth-grade math.
“That same student, if you had done the reinforcement in this year, given that amount of work, I can almost guarantee to you that person would have had a IV one year later if we had done the appropriate education in this year," Martin said. "Instead, this person being a low III, they passed, but that person will always have a weak foundation and so to argue that this person is evidence of this is an opportunity that they should have been given, I will argue no.
The opportunity this person should have been given was to have the correct instruction for their level so that in the following year and even in this year, instead of having a III here, they’d be blowing away at a IV. Then this person will have success the rest of their career."
With the policy passed, Sutton talked about how it will prevent biases from excluding minority students from being placed in advanced math courses.
“In all segments of society, biases and stereotypes exist,” Sutton said. “This is what the policy is trying to get at. What we’re trying to do is guard against those biases becoming part of placement decisions.”
That was a touchy issue when raised by Republican school board members and Superintendent Tony Tata.

Comments
Tell me I'm wrong
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 20:16 — louiselee44"A parent or teacher request to place his/her child in a class lower than the student data suggest shall be reviewed by the principal. The principal will make the final decision."
Just so I'm clear on this - so if a parent, or a parent and a teacher together - know that a child is not ready, maturity-wise, work-load wise, etc. to be at the math level his/her score indicates, the principal can override that parent's best knowledge?????? That scares me. Hope I'm not correct on that.
flow chart from Raleigh Public Record
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 16:40 — Carolina_lemurfrom Raleigh Public Record: http://www.raleighpublicrecord.org/news/2012/03/30/explaining-math-placement-door-opens-wide-for-algebra-i/
Keung, do you know which schools will offer the 5/6 Compacted
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 00:31 — raleighlauraI know the plan is to NOT have this in the traditional calendar non-magnets. Can you find out if the 5/6 Compacted Math will be offered in the Magnets, and if so, which ones in 2012-13?
5/6 Compacted
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 10:50 — jenandjonHave they released what the policy will be for years subsequent to 2012-2013? My understanding from the previous math policy drafts that were brought forward on 1/24/12 and in 2/12 was that there were two plans: one for 2012-2013 phase in year and one for 2013 and beyond. For 2012-2013 you would have to have had 5/6 compacted to get into the highest track (which I disagree with, given how children are arbitrarily placed or not placed into 5/6 compacted); the highest track would put a child in Math 7 Plus for 6th grade. For 2013 and beyond it was only a 70% EVAAS and a 98% on one of the CogAT/ITBS tests and then the curriculum for 6th highest math track would be Common Core 6 & Common Core 7, 7th grade would be Common Core 8 & High School Common Core 1, then the final course would be High School Common Core 2 (which is the same class that the 5/6 compacted kids from 2012-2013 implementation year would get if they stayed on the highest level).
Which would mean that for the 2012-2013 implementation year you would need to be in 5/6 compacted with Level III or IV, but going forward, you could get in with a 98% achievement test.
Keung, I only recall seeing criteria that show the 5/6 compacted for the highest level... only having this policy for all years going forward would seem illogical given the fact that they are supposed to be eliminating 5/6 compacted (new common core is supposed to push that learning into regular curriculum). Comments?
Click here for what they had
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 16:12 — KeungHui (author)Click here for what they had previously presented for use post 2012 when the compacted math course was gone. But it's going to revised to reflect the changes made this week and for anything else they see based on what happens with the 2011-12 math resutls and the fall math results.
Steidinger told the board on
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 10:24 — KeungHui (author)Steidinger told the board on Tuesday that it's not supposed to be offered any longer.
I can't answer your question
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 09:17 — ksinclairI can't answer your question fully, but I have a rising 5th grader (AG) who is at a magnet and they are not offering compacted math next year. My understanding is that it is a systemwide change, but again, I only know our situation.
true for our magnet school too
Sat, 03/31/2012 - 13:40 — turnerk1We've been told at the magnet ES my youngest goes to that they won't be offering the course again.
Compromise?
Thu, 03/29/2012 - 10:54 — MissVThere is no compromise with Jim Martin. Because he has low expectations of low-income children, he will continue to bicker and complain. No one is forcing these young people into Algebra. Just that they have an opportunity to achieve. So we must endure 3- 1/2 more years of listening to him sound like a wet hen.
If his opinion stretches across NC State, the new William Peace University won't have problems increasing enrollment. I'm glad I graduated from NC State w/o running into him.
Low expectations?
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 07:30 — garnergradThe low expectations are built into the system and Dr. Martin is stating the obvious. Kids who do not do the work won't learn algebra. We have a system where kids are not accountable for doing the work. (There's a movement afoot to make homework completely non-obligatory.) If we leave it up to kids not to do the work, and then they don't, they won't learn algebra! They might pass the EOC, but we had a thread a few weeks ago that talked about proficiency vs mastery.
Yes, we are forcing these kids into algebra! Forcing any kid with X test scores into early algebra is the whole point of the policy! And then we jump on any school or any teacher whose children don't pass the EOC and scream at them for failing these kids. But, some kids haven't developed the "work habits" to deal with algebra. That is the problem that needs to be fixed and this compromise policy doesn't touch that.
Forcing kids into algebra?
Fri, 03/30/2012 - 19:25 — lferreriThe vast majority (around 75%) of the students who meet the objective criterion cutoff actually have a 90% or greater probability of passing the EOC. Many of these students, who are often scoring at Level IV on the EOGs, were not placed under the previous system. I don't believe that these are students who "do not do the work" and "won't learn algebra." If that's true, how did they learn so much in prior classes? Reasonable people can disagree about whether the cutoff should be 70% or some higher probability. But I don't see how reasonable people can argue that students who have previously excelled in learning math should be kept out of advanced classes.
That's particularly true in light of the fact that there are a lot of students who are being placed into advanced classes who have not demonstrated previous mastery. For example, the data presented by staff about the placement of students into Compacted 5/6 math showed hundreds of students being placed who did not meet the criteria which many who did meet them were excluded. While I have problems with the selection criteria used for this decision (based as it was on testing that had occurred two years earlier), the fact that the criteria were apparently applied arbitrarily strikes me as a real failure of the current system.
Yes, forcing
Sat, 03/31/2012 - 10:49 — garnergradI am absolutely with you that kids with a 90% chance of passing the EOC should be put in 8th grade algebra. I think kids projected to score Level IV on the EOC should be forced to take algebra whether they want to or not. If the policy stopped here it wouldn't have taken 8 months.
What reasonable people are arguing about are the 70-89% Level III kids who may or may not be able to cut it. The test scores can't really tell us if they can make it or not, but the earlier version of the policy forced them into algebra. If these kids can't cut it, and we dumb down class so they won't fail, everyone loses. This is the heart of the argument we're having. I think there is widespread agreement about the injustice of Level IV kids being excluded. I'm with you on that.
When I was starting asking people what a typical Level III student can actually do in the classroom, I was very surprised at how low the bar is. Basically, some level III students (in the 70-79% EVASS range) are still counting on their fingers. Some of these kids were getting Level II over the years. (Now we can restest to get them to Level III.) I think borderline Level II indicates a marginal student who is very different from the Level IV students lferreri is touting above.
I'm still willing to stipulate that with an exceptional teacher any Level III student could pass algebra. Unfortunately, we have few exceptional math teachers. Dr. Martin is right about the implications of having such a wide range of students in what is supposed to be a very rigorous class. Dumbing it down so everyone passes the EOC and schools look good is counter-productive.
The point
Sat, 03/31/2012 - 16:43 — lferreriThe point I was trying to make is that the 70-79% students represent a small portion of the population under discussion. The vast majority of the students are in the 90% plus range. If you want to argue that the criteria's cutoff should be set at 80%, I think that there could be a reasonable discussion. However, I think the decision needs to be based on data about actual student success and not on anecdotal evidence. Once a cutoff is set, I think it needs to be used for all students while allowing students who want to opt out of advanced courses to do so. (I couldn't disagree with you more that "kids projected to score Level IV should be forced to take algebra whether they want to or not.")
As we saw with the compacted 5/6 math, allowing individual schools and teachers to decide whether to follow the criteria leads to wide disparities between schools and to inappropriate decisions. That's why the policy is designed to ensure that all schools use the established critieria. The specific criteria (a separate document) used for placement can be adjusted based on evidence. But I believe that consistent criteria and a transparent process are essential.
I'm with you. I'm not
Mon, 04/09/2012 - 08:48 — jenmanI'm with you. I'm not opposed to a discussion about what the cut off should be but let's get real about it. It seems that most of the people who are arguing against kids who have a 70-79% prediction getting placed aren't applying that same standard to all of the kids with that prediction or lower who have been placed in the higher track for years now. (I''m not referring to you, garnergrad)
I keep hearing they're concerned that if these kids don't do well in 8th grade Alg that we'll have to put them in another class to reinforce those skills and get them ready for Geometry. Yet we've already had that class for several years. I think Sanderson calls it Al-Geo.
New data
Mon, 04/09/2012 - 09:17 — lferreriThere was a letter to the editor in the N&O a few days ago. Apparently SAS now has data about the success rate of qualified students in 2011. It was very high. It would be interesting to see their results. I think the cutoff, whatever is chosen, needs to be based on objective data. I also agree with you that it needs to be applied to all students because, as you said, there doesn't seem to be as much concern about the fact that students below the 70% cutoff were placed.
Thanks for the heads up on
Mon, 04/09/2012 - 10:33 — jenmanThanks for the heads up on the LTE. We just got back in town after break & I haven't read the papers yet.
You're kidding. WPU is a
Thu, 03/29/2012 - 22:07 — ksinclairYou're kidding. WPU is a joke.