WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Diversity policy supporters to hold candlelight vigil Monday

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Supporters of the diversity policy plan to hold a candlelight vigil the night before the Wake County school board likely votes on Tuesday to go to neighborhood schools.

According to reporter Thomas Goldsmith, fliers for the Monday night vigil were being handed out at today's Great Schools in Wake Coalition press conference. The vigil is being organized by the Wake County Clergy Coalition.

A formal press conference announcing the vigil will be held tomorrow at Temple Beth Or in Raleigh.

Titled "This Little Light of Mine" after a familiar spiritual song, the demonstration is set for 7 p.m. at Martin Street Baptist Church, 1001 E. Martin St., Raleigh.

"We do not want to see our community divided into groups of differering socials and economic classes, races and cultures, languages, or faiths," organizers said in the flier.

According to a release from the Rev. Tom Rhodes, minister of the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Raleigh, the coalition realizes the need for improvement in Wake schools, but calls the current board majority's push to change the policy "divisive and controversial."

Participants in the vigil are asked to bring their own candles.

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why?

"Okay, then why all the uproar about changing the system? If what you say is true only a small percentage will feel any changes at all and almost everyone already goes to neighborhood school"

Maybe because the children of the people who are pushing for these changes will greatly benefit while another group of children will be hurt?

Maybe because those children have parents who are least able and likely to advocate for their children, parents who have no political clout?

Maybe because the majority of parents are satisfied with our current system, imperfect as it is, and see no reason take it apart and rebuild it from scratch?

Maybe because of the manner in which the majority has presented these changes, limited public debate and now they are putting practice ahead of policy? (FYI, you create the policy, then figure out the best way to implement; not implement, then write the policy around it.)

Maybe because they can provide research from across the nation and in NC that shows that the type of high-poverty schools the majority plan to create tend to struggling schools often failing schools? And evidence that shows throwing money at them doesn't help long-term and that the extra $$$ usually dries up in a few years.

Maybe because John T has not presented an actual proposal, research to show how this improve student achievement or financial projections before putting this to a vote?

Maybe because we know that when other communities redesigned thier assignment plans they spent years researching options, meeting with stakeholders, hammering out the details, etc... not 9 - 15 months?

I could go on...but you get the drift. The manner in which this has been handled (which was totally unnecessary given they have the votes to pass anything they want) does not instill any sense of confidence that they know what they are doing and can move beyond their own ideology to do they best for every student and the community long-term.

Nicely said.  I hope it

Nicely said.  I hope it sinks in to these folks.

Candle light vigil...hmm,

Candle light vigil...hmm, can it get any more maudlin and ridiculous?

All this because we are longer going to bus kids around the county based on which parents do and do not decide to sign their kids up for free or reduced priced lunches.

How does this statement line

How does this statement line up with the 85-90% of kids who go to school within 5 miles of their house?

OK....now that you've finished your "THAT'S HOW THE CROW FLIES" argument, so what?  If 85-90% of kids are attending a school that is 5 miles away from their house, I believe I'm safe in saying that 85-90% of kids are NOT being "bused around the county".

What About The Other 10-15%?

What about the 10-15% that are bused over 5-10-15 and 20 miles.  Is that OK?  Why should they have to sacrafice so everyone that is only 5 miles from their house can pat themselves on the back and say...I support diverisity and it makes me feel good.  The truth is those people would be irritated if they have to travel the distances some kids are expected to travel.  One of my son's classmates travels 23 miles to get to our school.  I drove the route the other day and I couldn't believe it.  Is that acceptable? 

You'd have to ask that kid's

You'd have to ask that kid's parents if it's acceptable.  I can't answer for them.  If "they" (parents of those kids as a group) have a problem with it, then it's not acceptable.  If "they" don't, then I don't understand why so many people are trying to fix what "they" don't consider a problem.

Assuming that the long bus rides are a problem for that 10-15% of students, I don't think changing the assignment policy for every child is necessarily the way to fix it.

I Agree!

I agree...if parents 'choose' to have their kids on a long bus ride then that is their choice.  Guess what...I'm one of those parents...my kids travel 8 miles to ES, currently assigned 8 miles for middle and they wanted to send us to a HS that is 15 miles away.  That is not acceptable to me.  Does that mean my choice doesn't matter?   

 

Janis, that would be so easy

Janis, that would be so easy to solved ... simple BOE proposal ... anyone who is more that five miles from their school can opt out and choose a closer school if there is an open seat. That is what I would do.  The county is only 40 miles across so no one can be more than 40 miles from their school.  We should just start with 40 miles and reduce the distance until we run into problems.

Really.....

So if the new BOE does this and we create high poverity schools you are OK with that? 

The voters have spoken... 

The voters have spoken...  they want the poor kids out....  I don't like high poverty schools, I think they will be more expensive to fix and they do not give bright poor kids much opportunity but that is what the powers dictate ... I do not think we need to forcibly create them though by rounding up all the poor kids and putting them in as few schools as possible either ... 1) I think that if they put a five mile circle around most schools and tried to get most everyone into those schools they would end up with good diversity in general ... and 2) I do think it is stupid to grab a trailer park with 10 kids in SE and assign it to N. Raleigh ... it does nothing for the kids and is a public relations nightmare.

"voters.. want the poor kids out"

"The voters have spoken...  they want the poor kids out"

...a sadly misinformed interpretation.

This is What User1234 Does Best

When User1234 has nothing constructive to offer he resorts to 'diversity' baiting!

I can't speak for user (can

I can't speak for user (can anyone?!), but I think that if they put a 8-10 mile (as the crow flies) limit on what could be done without parental consent/request, but kept diversity in as A factor, but not THE factor, everything would be OK.

I think that would give enough flexibility to avoid the 90% poverty schools that are likely going to be created by the zone policy.

Name a school that will have

Name a school that will have 90% poverty.

 

 

Tell John Tedesco to

Tell John Tedesco to guarantee that there won't be some.

If you look at the SE Raleigh and Eastern Wake areas (and maybe one other) on the map that was in the Independent a few weeks ago, it's hard to imagine how they could put in zones and not create a few.

Good grief, I'll take John's

Good grief, I'll take John's ideas and committee over the Independent's FACSIMILE of POTENTIAL map ideas (which they stated) of "possibilites".....

I will too, because just

I will too, because just like you I don't live in one of those areas.

Again, name just one that

Again, name just one that you think will be 90% poverty.

I don't claim to be an

I don't claim to be an expert.  I especially don't claim to know the names of schools in areas where I don't live.

I did attend a BAC with JT where he basically said that some high poverty schools would be unavoidable in a zone plan, but that resources could be better targeted at those schools at that time.

Since the "more resources" model hasn't seemed to work all that well elsewhere, I question what will make it more effective here.

 

Well if according to you

Well if according to you neither the "no resources" model now in place nor the "more resources" model will work, what do your propose we do?

I contend that we go with the "right resources" model, which is more inline, I believe, with what JT is talking about. KIPP scares people, but it is a right resources model that has been proven effective. Perhaps there is a similar more palpable model that Wake County can employ.

The bottom line is changes are needed. Too many at-risk kids are falling by the wayside and too many students and families are forced to endure unnecessary burdens with current policies. We cannot let it continue. Give the new BoE a chance. They are intelligent, well-meaning people with good hearts who care about education.

I don't know what's best. 

I don't know what's best.  That's the point. 

Research needs to be done.  A plan needs to be developed.  That research and planning should be done with an eye toward what is best, not toward a certain assignment model or any other goal.

You can't go into an unknown situation, claiming to do what's best, when you've already committed yourself to part of what the end is going to look like.

Beat me to the punch

Dan.  I had the same question.  Have you asked the child's parents?

Yes I Did and She Doesn't Understand!

Her exact comment to me was...how's come my son can't go closer?    Does her choice not matter?   In todays system she has no choices.  She's tried magnet...denied. 

Here's an interesting email

Here's an interesting email sent out by the Davis Drive Elementary PTA:

Parents:
 
Our teachers are meeting with several parents for
Spring Conferences on Thursday night, March 25th, from 6:00-8:00pm.  We
are providing a bus to transport some parents that live a long distance
from our school and will have baby-sitting available for their
children.  We want to provide snacks for them and would really
appreciate your help.  If you would like to donate small, individual
bags of chips or cookies, please send your contribution to the guidance
offices by Wednesday, March 24th.  Thank you -- we appreciate your help!
 
I am gratified to see the PTA taking steps to help the parents of children bused from afar participate in teacher conferences.  But what about those parents who don't have people arranging bus transportation? 

 

Just curious... is the bus

Just curious... is the bus provided by WCPSS?

In the past when our middle

In the past when our middle school offered this service, I believe the PTA had to fund an activity bus.

Okay, then why all the

Okay, then why all the uproar about changing the system? If what you say is true only a small percentage will feel any changes at all and almost everyone already goes to neighborhood school.

FYI: My children have never attended a school with 5 miles of our home...9 to 23 miles with 5:50 am pick-up times has been our experience.

That's awful.

I'm surprised you're still in public school. That sounds dreadful, and I feel sorry for your kids. 5:50 am!

For me personally, the

For me personally, the "uproar" is because I don't have any answers about what the new system will mean. 

JT has an idea of the general parameters he wants his system to have (they are in the process of passing a resolution that outlines those parameters, right?).

He hasn't talked about how schools would be built and filled (do you adjust zones, build new schools in each zone, etc). 

He hasn't talked about how zones make managing growth much more difficult (for next year, they anticipate 3800 new students...in a zone system, you'd have to try to break down how many are going into each zone, instead of having the node-flexibility to handle the growth).

He talks about putting "magnet" schools in each zone (possibly), even though having a "magnet" school in a zone that doesn't have any underutilized schools is useless.  Magnet schools are a diversity/building utilization tool, and if the diversity policy is scrapped the magnet program should go along with it.

Based on what I know right now, I don't think the zone system is going to be well-received.  That does NOT mean I think things should be left "as-is".  There are other options.

Socio-economic diversity doesn't have to be eliminated as a factor, but it could be moved down the priority list a few notches.  The top priority of the new model could be to keep kids within "x" miles of their homes, and then the staff could look at the socio-economic makeup of the schools when determining who gets what.  

Basically, in a system as spread out as Wake County, I think the flexibility of the node-based system is an important tool to ensure an efficient use of building resources. 

I thought the BOE was

I thought the BOE was dropping the SES wording because they thought it was discriminatory.  Moving it further down in rank wouldn't make it any less discriminatory. 

issue

For me personally, the "uproar" is because I don't have any answers
about what the new system will mean.

So, the issue is impatience and not necessarily disagreement?

It's not impatience. 

It's not impatience.  Impatience is what the new board members are showing.

I have seen them pass resolutions, and then after it's been passed be unable to answer simple questions about how it will be implemented.

I've seen John Tedesco ask Dulaney why we couldn't offer a YR option along with 2 or 3 TR options to parents, "to give them that choice", and then look flabbergasted when he was told that his idea would mean an dramatic increase in transportation costs.

They claim not to have any idea how this new assignment policy will work, but they have already adopted it as the direction WCPSS will take in the future.

I am not the impatient one.

So...

I've been patiently waiting for a decade.  How much longer should I wait?

 

So

I've been waiting those same 10 years plus a few more for the school board and for student assignment to make any sense.   As best I can tell, this new board is as bad if not worse than the previous boards so I guess 10 years isn't quite long enough yet.

I've just gone ahead with finding ways to get mine what they need despite and outside of the school system as needed.  

 

Look Man

I'm as liberal as they come, and I just want to say, please, not the vigil. Vigils are good for opposing the death penalty, which I've done. They are also good for Taking Back Streets from the gangs or the rapists. But this doesn't make sense to me. Go ahead and hold a press conference and voice concerns. That's legit. Then, all these pastors should just preach to their congregations about their concerns and convictions. Get your communities involved. And, heck, go talk to Board members pastors and ask them how they feel about this and then maybe get that pastor to have a nice one on one talk with the board member. But vigils, well, as I said, I'm as liberal as they come but the vigil comes off as self-righteous and that just plays into the stereotypes some folks have of us....

Vigil or Vindictiveness

 “gregishere” – Very rational points, and vigils should be cautioned.Pastors considering use of their pulpits to directly intervene with the public school system should exercise careful discretion when crossing “fine lines”… take for example, Separation of Church and State.

…the “stereotypes” will appear shy in comparison to the hypocrisy.

Actually....

Please keep it up -- with this vigil, you have almost won me over.  Maybe if several of you went on a hunger strike and chained yourselves to some large inanimate object someplace, you could really convince me.   It would help if you could start a rousing chorus of "hey hey ho ho neighborhood schools have got to go," burn your underwear and then maybe have somebody go just over the top and set themselves on fire.  (with a handy fire extinguisher -- it's ok to get badly burned; just don't let anyone die). 

Seriously, though, I understand your concern -- your case is much better made (and you're more likely to get some concession) if you can avoid giving voice to the lunatic fringe.  But, Rev. Barber's got that microphone pretty tight.

What would Ron say about

What would Ron say about letting these animals out of their cages with fire!

Where The News On This?

"provide the news media with a summary of findings, detailed research reports and direct access to a panel of researchers from Duke University, UNC Chapel Hill and NC State University." 

Matt.....wasn't this suppose to happen today.  Since you are a sponsor for this upcoming forum what earth shattering news was shared today?  It seems strange that they need to have another press conference tomorrow?  

Kathleen Brown, an associate

Kathleen Brown, an associate professor at UNC's School of Education, said it's still too soon to say what the school board's concept would do – a plan isn't even in the developmental stages – but that re-segregation is a danger.

"If we can somehow figure out neighborhood schools that work with an integration policy, that's fine," she said. "Let's keep talking. Let's keep the conversation going and figure this out. Let's just not go one way or another."

 "What we found in North Carolina is that the differences between high poverty and more affluent schools had been growing over time," said Helen Ladd, a professor of public policy and economics at Duke

 

"We do not want to see our

"We do not want to see our community divided into groups of differering socials and economic classes, races and cultures, languages, or faiths," organizers said in the flier.

Do they not realize the current policy already does this by labeling poor children and busing them across the county?

Division

And yet so many actions of several of these groups and words of many are focused on torquing this up as hot as it can get and defining political divisions. Hmmmm.

Everyone is invited on March 24th at K&S Cafeteria in Raleigh (there are two locations, we're meeting at the Raleigh location), 6 - 8pm, for a civil, reasonable discussion about concerns and issues. There will likely be new information to all of us shared there and to be considered. 

Am trying to keep this on my

Am trying to keep this on my calendar.  Scratch that  -- I'm tired of being accused of "torquing" and a dozen other accusations just for the terrible, dark deeds of daring to ask questions.

There is a difference

There is a difference between how people act online and how they act and what they say to each other in person.  I can understand your apprehension, but I hope you decide to come.

That is just the point.

If we elect to post here about the responsibility of students, teachers, principals, school administrators, board members, parents, and more and yet do not require any responsibility of ourselves here at least equal to that we're asking all of these others to display, what message does that convey?

getting old

Please remind us again closer to the date  :^)

no because they are blinded

no because they are blinded by hypocrisy.

"diversity" as prescribed by WCPSS is designed to make people "feel good" because in theory it "sounds good".  It's not been working but very few want to admit that.

Not hypocrisy, but ignorance.

People I've been talking to say "Of course, I'm pro-diversity" because who isn't? It's a good thing! It's like being pro-organic, pro-green, or pro-prius. We want to be on the "good" side.

The problem I'm seeing is that people don't have any idea what the consequences are of "diversity above all other considerations."

I think the issue isn't diversity as a value, but the former policy and it's implications for node reassignment, bussing, resource allocation and parity. Once I give real examples about people I know being impacted, my friends say "Oh, I didn't know- that seems so unreasonable- didn't that family appeal?"  Well, duh. Yes, and the board didn't support them. That's why we got a NEW one! If the change agents had co-oped the "justice and access for all" message instead of being painted into an "anti-diversity" message, we'd be having a totally different (and in my opinion, much more worthwhile) conversation.

 

"The problem I'm seeing is

"The problem I'm seeing is that people don't have any idea what the consequences are of "diversity above all other considerations."

I never really undestood this statement ... >90% of the kids go to their neighborhood school, so the extent of the pushing diversity is rather small.  As often quoted here, 1/3 of the schools are above 40% F&R so the push was not much.

" "justice and access for all" message" ... you know that is a crock ... the Art Pope team (WSCA, JL, AFP, Civitas) just want to control education like many others.  Their goal is a transfer of wealth and power from ITB to OTB fro political gain ... the schools are just a means to an end.

don't know why I keep trying, but...

I have NEVER MET or SPOKE with Art Pope and I am one of the founders of WSCA.

Please, User--you have some thought-provoking comments, but your credibility is greatly diminished when you create such wildly inaccurate associations.

"Political gain?" Are you kidding me? Why in the world would any of us go through this h-e-double-hockey-sticks for our own community's political gain? Every single one of us continues to engage in this process because it is the right thing to do. That's it.

Again, I cordially invite you to sit down with some of "us" next Wednesday at K&S. We are not who you think we are--we are what we have said we are!

Thanks,

-Kristen

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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