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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Disputing that diversity policy has led to white flight

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Local attorney Neil Riemann is disputing Wake County school board member John Tedesco's contentions that the old socioeconomic diversity policy led to white flight.

In a post Saturday on his Wake Reassignment blog, Riemann takes aim at Tedesco for comments he made in a column that ran earlier this month in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. Tedesco was quoted as blaming the diversity policy for the district's F&R rate being triple the county's overall poverty rate and for doubling the percentage of people opting out of the district in the past 10 years.

"The affluent are not fleeing to private schools due to the diversity policy, assignment uncertainty, calendar changes, or anything else," Riemann writes. "No one is fleeing, because Wake County’s opt-out rate is essentially unchanged and has not doubled in ten years from 9% to 18%."

The first part of Riemann's argument is that you can't equate the percentage of kids receiving subsidized lunches with the poverty rate. He notes how the guidelines for subsidized lunches allow you to receive it when you're at 185 percent of the poverty line.

School districts across the country have used F&R numbers as a measure of low-income students for years.

Riemann approximates, using Census data, that 16 percent of Wake students are below the poverty line.

"Does this difference between the actual number and the expected number mean that the affluent are fleeing the public schools?" Riemann writes. "Again, no."

He also challenges the opt-out rate having increased so much in the past decade. Based on his data, the percentage of kids opting out for home schools and private schools has changed in Wake from 13.3 percent to 14.5 percent over the past decade.

His figures are a little off because he doesn't include kids in charter schools. Still the change isn't as dramatic as Tedesco said in the column.

Several years ago, I had crunched those numbers for 2000-01 and found Wake's market share then was 84.7 percent. I crunched them again over the summer and found it to be 82.9 percent for the 2009-10 school year.

Wake's market share was over 90 percent in 1996 before charter schools and home schools opened.

Riemann closed out his post by saying the approximate poverty level in Charlotte-Mecklenburg's schools compared to the county's poverty rate is much wider than it is in Wake.

"So if assignment plans determine who opts out of our public schools, and your goal is to retain affluent students, which plan would you rather have?" he writes.

UPDATE

I forgot to mention Tuesday night that Tedesco had replied on Riemann's blog. Click here to view.

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Poverty rate vs F&R

Montgomery county and Fairfax county - two sizable school districts report poverty rates of 3-4% according to the census estimates.  The school systems report F&R  of 28%-33%.   Wake County on the other hand has a poverty rate of 9% and a F&R rate of circa 30%, essentially the same as Fairfax and Montgomery but at 2-3 times the poverty rate.  

Following JT's logic, can we then conclude that the zone/cluster assignment models used by both Fairfax and Montgomery County lead to a higher white flight than does the Wake assignment model ? 

Deleted

Deleted

John Tedesco Responded to the Blog Post (Apparently)

and I replied:

http://wakereassignment.info/home/2010/11/23/response-from-john-tedesco-i-think.html

So...

Your criticism is basically:

(1)  "You said the number of people opting out doubled in 10 years.  Really it took 13 years."   Ok.  But, that ignores the point -- it's dropped significantly in the last decade or so.

(2) Complaining that 17.5% is the number of students "not attending WCPSS", not the number who have "opt[ed] out of public schools."  That's just an argument over semantics.

The numbers don't lie -- WCPSS' "market share" has eroded significantly.  We can argue about the cause of the decline, since there's no real good evidence about why families left.  But, you seem to be arguing more around the edges -- playing games with whether people switching to charters really "opted out" of WCPSS, or arguing about what year we should start measuring.

This...

(1)  "You said the number of people opting out doubled in 10 years.  Really it took 13 years."   Ok.  But, that ignores the point -- it's dropped significantly in the last decade or so.
 
is not a fair summary.  Specifically you overlooked this part:

More importantly, the “opt outs” have increased by a grand total of 1% since 2001; the rest of the growth was before that and arose when charter schools were opened

"The last decade" is roughly the same as "since 2001"......if that 1% number is correect thgen Tedesco is clearly trying to mislead and imply non-existent correlations by muddying the time period.  

So...

First of all, 2000-2001 was 84.8%; 2008-2009 was 82.5%.  That's a 2.3% increase over 8 years, not 1% over 10 years.

Secondly, if you look at it from the other point of view, you see that alternate schools are growing at a fairly brisk clip -- they've grown by 69% since the '00-'01 school year, compared to WCPSS' 43%.

Third, note that only 1/3 of the increase in non-WCPSS enrollment in the 1997-2001 period was from charters -- the rest of it was in private and home schools.

It's certainly not a massive exodus from the district (which, I'm worried may happen next year if the district's budget is cut too much).  But, it's a long-term trend that should worry the district -- if it can't compete to keep students, it will lose public support.

Another way

 

Secondly, if you look at it from the other point of view, you see that alternate schools are growing at a fairly brisk clip -- they've grown by 69% since the '00-'01 school year, compared to WCPSS' 43%.

 

While 69% vs 43% appears to be a huge difference, let's keep  in mind the alternative schools are starting with a much smaller base and it doesn't take much to move the needle. 

From 2000/2007 the white population in the county grew 22% with a mix of retirees, single professionals and families.  Point is not all of these 22% will add to the school system.  White students over the same period increased from 64,000 to 70,500 or a 10% increase . If white students increased at the rate of the white population we should have added 6,000 more white students. This represents the max lost. It is realistically more in the range of 4,000 as the 22% does not all contribute to the school system. So we are talking toughly 4,000 over 7 years lost.  Where did these students go - home schooling, charters, religious, private.  So what segments does JT want to reclaim ?  Does he think the religious and quasi religious/private can be reclaimed ?  What would be the estimate ?  maybe 2,000 ?   Point is that it is not a huge number. I would hope we could direct our efforts to the thousands that do not graduate each year.  

 

If white students increased

If white students increased at the rate of the white population we should have added 6,000 more white students.
 
122% of  64000 is about 78000, so we should have added 7500 white students.
 
It is realistically more in the range of 4,000 as the 22% does not all contribute to the school system.
 
 
But I don't think you have presented any data to suggest what percentage of the additional white population added to the school system, so you are just speculating. One could just as easily speculate that the majority of people are moving here for jobs, and tend to be people with families. Whatever the number, it is significant.
 
The final point is that WCPSS is losing the families that it can least afford to lose. Those that leave WCPSS for private, charter, religious, and home schooling are generally parents that are active in their schools, and make monetary contributions to their schools. Their children tend to do well without the need for extra resources. IMO, this has been one of the troublesome side effects of a set of policies that place so much emphasis on those below grade level versus those that are thriving.  The legacy of the diversity policy will be how it enabled white flight, and led to increasing challenges for WCPSS.

Whatever the number, it is significant

But I don't think you have presented any data to suggest what percentage of the additional white population added to the school system, so you are just speculating. One could just as easily speculate that the majority of people are moving here for jobs, and tend to be people with families. Whatever the number, it is significant.

Let's assume the total is 7,500.  Based on the flight pattern - what would you estimate to be the potential that could be turned back to the public school system ?

- 65% of Home Schooled and 70% of the Private schools classify themselves as religious based.  Charter schools - it is not likely this will decrease, in fact the current elected majorities favor a removal of the cap. 

I have no idea how many

I have no idea how many could be convinced to come back to WCPSS.

More importants is to stop the bleeding. Affluent families make significant contributions to the school system, both financial and in the classroom. But more than that, they generally vote at much higher rates than the general population.

I can't remember the source, but I once heard that there is a tipping point when 25% of the population opts out of the public schools. Below that number, it becomes impossible to pass a bond referendum for new schools. That is my biggest concern.

We don't need to pander to

We don't need to pander to white affluent families anymore.  We are getting over crowded especially at the schools whites prefer.  We have +30 potential schools that need to be built.  Unless a white family is giving $100M/yr we don't need them and should welcome them going to private school.

The future is minorities.  They have been held back the most and have the most potential to make dramatic improvements and will be in leadership by the time our kids are adults.  If we don't stop pandering and depending on the shrinking population of white parents and students now and start a full court press on minorities we are going to be in a very bad place 30 years from now.

We don't need to pander to

We don't need to pander to white affluent families anymore
 
I think that is very short sighted. As Bob mentions, affluent families vote. And when affluent families leave the public school system, they are not all that interested in supporting the public school system. And whether they vote to turn down bond referendums, or vote in commissioners who are against properly funding the public schools, they affect the future, and we need to pay attention to them.

But as Stan reminds us

it doesn't matter whether we vote for or against a bond, they will pass one either way. We'll just pay 12 cents more if we officially say no at the ballot box. I really no longer think it matters what voters want and as such there should be zero dollars spent promoting a future bond.

I don't think that will be

I don't think that will be the case. If the voters reject, say a $1 billion bond referendum, there's no way that the county commissioners just come back and issue $1 billion in certificates of participate (which don't require a vote). They'll likely fund a much smaller building program, and make plans to seek another bond referendum.

Let's ask Stan

Mr. Norwalk, would this be the case? If the next bond fails will your board issue certificates for the same amount?

Still waiting on someone to clear up the numbers game for us. Is the latest 4-500 teachers who could be gone on top of the original estimate of 2000 or is that 2000 now a 4-500 estimate? I think it's incredibly moronic that we are going to play this back and forth, up and down, on again off again numbers game until next Fall to find out what the truth will be. Imagine how those teachers are going to feel for the next 9 months. Imagine how that's going to affect the classroom, whether anyone says it will or not.

Eventually the state steps

Eventually the state steps in and confiscates wealth and builds the schools required by law.   You may have seen the example of St. Louis where a judge ran the schools system for a number of years.   That will be a Republican's worst nightmare since a judge won't spend a lot of time looking for low cost or creative solutions.   

The Missouri State Board of

The Missouri State Board of Education took control of the St Louis public schools  because of a history of financial, administrative, and student achievement failures. All schools in the district lost accreditation.

There was no judge in control and no confiscation of wealth. A three member panel was appointed to replace the school board and run the system. The governor, mayor of St Louis and president of the city's board of aldermen each appointed one member to serve on the panel.

Enrollment at St Louis Public schools has plummeted from 40,000 in 2004-05 to 26,000 in 2009-10. The district has been closing schools, and cutting budgets for the past several years.

What has occurred in St Louis has nothing to do with passing bond referendums for school construction. There is no way that the state would take over WCPSS if the public rejects a general obligation bond referendum.

Kansas City Missouri

The Sad History of Kansas City Public Schools

(Think about CMS as you read this...sn)

By Joshua M. Dunn

Joshua M. Dunn is assistant professor of political science at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. His latest book is Complex Justice: The Case of Missouri v. Jenkins (UNC, 2008). . 

Two weeks ago the media reported the apparently shocking news that the Kansas City, Missouri School District (KCMSD) school board voted 5-4 to close nearly half of its schools, 28 of 61 schools in the district. But those familiar with the district were not surprised.  The real question is not why the school board has decided to close so many schools but why it took them so long.  In Complex Justice I describe the long, agonizing, and costly desegregation case of Missouri v. Jenkins. It is that case which delayed this day of reckoning.

Unfortunately most coverage of the current situation has neglected to mention the role Missouri v. Jenkins played in leading to these mass closures.  The New York Times, for example, addressed the district’s long history of dysfunction but did not explain how the case aided and abetted that dysfunction.

In the mid 1980s, federal district court judge Russell Clark ordered a complete overhaul of the school district.   No expense was spared.  All told, the court spent more than $2 billion in its quest to improve the KCMSD.  Every high school and middle school and half the district’s elementary schools became magnet schools with special themes such as classical Greek, Slavic studies, and agribusiness.  Special themes required special facilities, such as petting zoos, robotics labs, and a model United Nations facility with simultaneous translation capability.  One high school was so extravagant it was dubbed the “Taj Mahal.”

When Judge Clark’s remedial program began in the mid 1980s the school district enrolled 35,00.)0 students, compared to more than 70,000 in the late 1960s. (Today it enrolls just over 17,000)  During the 1970s the school district had experienced a massive exodus of students.  Most importantly, a series of destructive and divisive teacher strikes undermined parental confidence in the school system.  Thousands of students left the district after each strike.  Of course, most of them were white, but a significant number of African American students left as well.  Everyone who could afford to escape fled to the suburbs or to private schools. However, because of ineffectual leadership, the district maintained a large stable of partially filled buildings.  No one was willing to make the politically unpopular but necessary decisions to close underused schools.  Once the case got underway, the plaintiff’s attorney, Arthur Benson, and his expert witnesses assured Judge Clark that if he ordered the requested improvements, the school district would draw tens of thousands of white students from the suburbs back into the district. Much like the Field of Dreams, the premise was “If you build it they will come.”

But the students never came.  Sadly, at the same time that Judge Clark was pouring money into the district, the quality of education declined for Kansas African American parents grew so disillusioned that many formed an organization devoted to taking over the school board and ending the case. ’Test scores fell and levels of s minority students. racial isolation to tincreased.   Despite the academic failure of students in the system the school district was kept afloat by judicially mandated largesse, allowing it to avoid the difficult decision to close largely empty schools.  In fact, the schools closed last week received tens of millions of dollars under the desegregation plan.  Absent Missouri v. Jenkins, the school district would have been forced to gradually close schools and would have avoided a wrenching and traumatic mass closing.

Ironically, the board member casting the decisive vote to close the 28 schools was Arthur Benson, the same attorney who led the Missouri v. Jenkins lawsuit from 1977 to its conclusion in 2003. While many, including myself, have criticized his counterproductive educational proposals, he has tried to put his hard-won knowledge to good use by joining the school board two years ago.  Instead of focusing on exotic but educationally distracting programs, he has spent his tenure on the board trying to focus on providing a good and fiscally sustainable education for the district’s students. One wishes Benson well in his effort to help the children of Kansas City in the twilight of his career. But it’s difficult not to think of what could have been if he had he used his formidable gifts and intellect to help the school district in more productive ways than litigation over the past three decades.  In the many years I studied the case, I never found a single person, even among his most ardent opponents, who questioned Benson’s integrity or sincerity.  He always had the best of intentions.  But good intentions do not guarantee good public policy. Certain roads, as Missouri v. Jenkins reminds us, are paved with them.

Interesting...

Rush Limbaugh uses Kansas City as an example of why public schools should not be given more money.  I think he takes an extreme position, but there is a kernel of truth there: pouring money into schools, even in enormous quantities, does not guarantee success. 

I think the better lesson to be told is the importance of not "undermin[ing] parental confidence in the school system."  Thankfully, North Carolina teachers cannot implement the sort of destructive strikes that crippled Kansas City, but it is still possible to drive students away.  As Kansas City showed, it's extremely difficult to draw them back.

The lesson I see is when a

The lesson I see is when a community becomes so dysfunctional that it can not move and decide, government will step in and fulfill the law in the way they see fit.   As long as this is a Republican / Democrat, liberal/conservative, diversity/anti-diversity, Civitas/AFP/NAACP fight and the kids are left out eventually we will run into the ditch and someone will provide judicial oversight which won't be what we want or afford.  Best case we will muddle along and lose many grants and spend more on bonds than we need to.  Ultimately, no one is going to win without compromise and working together and 5-4 decision to run a school system will only ultimate destroy it.   And the losers will be taxpayer and children.

Hmm...

You may be right.  Let's hope that after October, it's a 7-2 board.

or 9-0 concerned about kids

or 9-0 concerned about kids and achievement and not political parties and their next election.

Will never happen in Wake County

.

All the dysfunction created

All the dysfunction created by GSIW and Rev. Barber will not be received with support for schools from Western Wake.  Until the Sutton/Hill/Morrison/McLaurin acknowledge the problems they have thrust upon Western Wake and deal with them (MYR, no magnets or magnet access, wacky reassignments and feeder patterns, etc.)  no compromise will lead to a positive end result.  Continued dysfunction could lead to a court-ordered assignment model but in this economic climate I would anticipate the combination of budget cuts and a court-ordered assignment model would result in students leaving the system in huge numbers.   

leaving in huge numbers

Many are trying now, but can't sell to be gone. Many more are waiting, painting and cleaning out closets hoping that soon changes so they can join in the mass exodus as well. Maybe all of this will off-set the 20,000 expected over the next decade.

Ultimately, there will be a

Ultimately, there will be a net gain of people and kids since this area is growing and listed in every report as the place to set up business and work.   Few folks are going to be leaving anytime soon if it depends on selling their homes.   I figure many folks are under water and it will be 5-7 years until they get back to break even.

That's a lot of disappointed people

once they arrive and find out that where they want to live schools are capped, only tracks 2&3 are available or they haven't been built yet because the last bond didn't pass!

I am guessing people are so

I am guessing people are so desperate now and need a job so badly that we could put 100 kids in a class and have them watch TV all day and they would put up with it ... maybe the answer is to "sell" the best tracks to the highest bidder.

When I mentioned leaving I

When I mentioned leaving I was actually thinking more in line of homeschooling.  This has become a far more acceptable alternative than it used to be.  Education is like everything else, if you can't get what you need/want and it gets degraded to a level that is no longer suitable, you might as well just do it yourself. 

DrActualFactual

If you consider that and want more info, ping me on the blog.  We home schooled our four daughters through MS which was the best decision we ever made.  When you home school there is no one to blame except yourself.

since I've heard of no plans

since I've heard of no plans such as these;

 All told, the court spent more than $2 billion in its quest to improve the KCMSD.  Every high school and middle school and half the district’s elementary schools became magnet schools with special themes such as classical Greek, Slavic studies, and agribusiness.  Special themes required special facilities, such as petting zoos, robotics labs, and a model United Nations facility with simultaneous translation capability.  One high school was so extravagant it was dubbed the “Taj Mahal.”  

 

I would think that comparisions of this school district to WCPSS (or even CMS) is simply another fear-mongering tactic.  Nice try, though, Stan.

It's obvious...

...that WCPSS is nowhere near KCMO. But we can still learn from their experience.

The emphasis must be on academic excellence rather than "wants" which are mostly physical things. e.g. We "want" to spend $72M on a new high school. We could build the capacity at 20% of the cost and  spend the savings in the classroom on advancing academics. We "want" to end YRS. Instead we "need" to use our creativity to figure out how to make them work - and we "need" to put the savings  back into the classroom. We want to disperse magnet schools..thats good. But in these hard times we need to insure that every class is full or we will be shortchanging education elsewhere. The obsession with ending or de-emphasizing diversity has cost us $10M in funding the expensive start-up phase of more magnets.We "want" expensive, competitive football stadiums in schools just a few miles apart. We need to rationalize the sports system so that expensive facilities are shared and return the savings to the classroom.

We "need" to stress teacher and principal development rather than make it a political football.

And BTW, putting labels on people is no way to understand what they are saying.

 

 

 

 

 

The obsession with ending or

The obsession with ending or de-emphasizing diversity has cost us $10M in funding the expensive start-up phase of more magnets.

 

 
That's just not true, Stan. 
 
As for magnets being dispersed, how about we make our current magnets no-base.  Or at the very least, make the middle class magnets no base.  Then at least we'll be giving more seats in magnets to families who really want those programs.  We have some underenrolled non-magnets near those middle class magnets.  We might also be able to demag one or two mags & move the middle class magnet base over to those schools.  We can no longer afford to fund magnets as neighborhood schools for middle and upper income neighborhoods.

...

"Instead we "need" to use our creativity to figure out how to make them work..."

They did work -- back when they were VYR and part of the magnet system. Diversity trumped that model and VYR became MYR.

Currently, 9 YR elementary schools are operating under 75% capacity (which equates to their tradt'l capacities) 5 of them have complete tracks missing. Creativity is nice but common sense would be nicer.

 

Again with the YRs

'We "want" to end YRS. Instead we "need" to use our creativity to figure out how to make them work - and we "need" to put the savings  back into the classroom. '

A better way to say this is we want to run schools efficiently. YRs have been shown to be inefficient because most do not operate at capacity, so they are are more expensive than traditional. Is the creativity you refer to forcing parents onto the unpopular tracks? Then you will be sure to see more leaving the system.

yes, Stan, we *want*

yes, Stan, we *want* academic execellence for ALL, not some.  Disperse magnets?  or dismantle and let ALL schools benefit from more varied offerings?

"The obsession with ending or de-emphasizing diversity has cost us $10M in funding the expensive start-up phase of more magnets"
 
really???  how?
 
.We "want" expensive, competitive football stadiums in schools just a few miles apart

really??  who??  where??

 
labeling?  you sure about that?
 
money in the classrooms?  Absolutely!! 
 
fully utilize schools?!  YES, so undo under-enrolled and costly MYR's, we know they are costing lots of money....look at schools where trakcs 2 & 3 are collapsed and/or under-enrolled....or are you in favor of now MANDATORY track assignments as well.
 
political footballs?  seems to me, you are the primary quarterback on that one....

 

"MANDATORY track assignments"

I keep looking for a blog post about this very issue. Shouldn't be much longer now.

Uhh...

.We "want" expensive, competitive football stadiums in schools just a few miles apart

really??  who??  where??

A few that come to mind:  Green Hope & Panther Creek; Wakefield, WF-R & Heritage.  Interestingly, the idea of not building stadiums at each school was raised by Terry Stoops of the John Locke Foundation a few years ago.

There is no way that the

There is no way that the state would take over WCPSS if the public rejects a general obligation bond referendum.

There is always a first for everything .... kids will get educated whether Republicans want it or not.

Eventually...

But, that is a LONG ways away.  Judge Manning is overseeing the worst districts in North Carolina and he hasn't come anywhere close to doing that. 

Well..

First of all, we're not really talking about white families -- the affluence is the important characteristic.  Secondly, recogngize that those affluent families support the district's mission in a number of ways: they work in classrooms, participate in PTAs and donate money to the schools.  And, perhaps more importantly, they vote far more regularly than do non-affluent parents.  We do not want WCPSS to mirror Richmond, where the schools serve only those who do not have the ability to go elsewhere.  If you want a full-court press on the students who are most failed by the system now (a goal I agree with), we need to bring along their more affluent peers.

(And, for those who see a disconnect between this view and my pro-charter view, which gives choices to affluent students, the point is that WCPSS should keep those students by giving them an excellent education, not by limiting their other options.)

Thanks

Thanks for reminding us of the positive impact and importance the affluent have on our schools - whether it be the assigned neighborhood school, the assigned school not proximate to residence or the magnets attended by choice.  I am sure these parents make a difference in the areas of our county that are less fortunate.

Sure....

But, that's true of a lot of things.  I imagine that we'd also see a positive impact if all local PhDs were forced to "volunteer" in a school in a poor section of town.   A parent's time, energy and money are no more the district's to assign than those PhDs'.

response to Bob S

I agree that affluent/middle class parents are not going to send their children to schools they regard as inferior...for any reason. This is just as true in SE Raleigh, where some middle class AA's choose to live, as it is in Cary. I also agree with You comments about Richmond.

While I believe choice is important, I don't think charters are the best or only solution. I tseems to me the WCPSS system of magnet schools is attractive to most affluent/middle class parents while offering a variety of other advantages. Many middle class parents are satisfied with the variety of advanced courses offered outside of magnets.

Raising educatioonal quality is key for all classes of students. But it can't be done without added $$$.

Educating students from low-income families is equally critical and very difficult and expensive. KIPP and  that most stakeholders wilhave shown its feasible but at an enormouus cost that most stakeholders will refuse to pay. In essence, the educational experience has to be far more intense, (smaller schools, lower teacher to student ratios, much more time on task, principals with the power to hire and fire,, etc.)

But in light of  State and Local government's likely priorities in balancing reduced revenues with budget cuts in education...gives this discussion a theoretical cast.

The likely cuts WCPSS is facing will reduce educational quality for all. There seems to be little interest by the BOC majority for any major counter moves and who knows what the state will do,

I find it highly disturbing that major campaign contributors and Republican Party leaders are avowed supporters of moving away from public schools.. To the extent they are influential their visions will become self-fulfilling prophecies. Time and public reaction will tell. Becoming more like Richmond is an all to real possibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many are confused

is it now only going to be 400 or 500 teachers who will be fired, or was that on top of the 2000?

?

' Many middle class parents are satisfied with the variety of advanced courses offered outside of magnets.'

Why do you believe this? Our magnet school goals need to be re-evaluated, especially with the budget crunch. If schools start losing offerings, especially AP classes, how can we rationalize 'extras' at magnet schools? Many of us never had a chance of our kids being accepted at magnets in the old assignment policy (we weren't the right 'type'). Why do you think we are satisfied that only some kids get these opportunities? The icing on the cake is that ED kids are being ill-served at magnets.

So...

I think he's probably right on that.  After all, there are still lots of people in WCPSS who could go elsewhere if they wanted to.  Especially at the High School level, there are lots of Honors and AP classes.   However, once you get into Middle and Elementary schools, the picture changes dramatically.

That said, I think your second paragraph is about right.  I would prefer to bring other schools up to the same level as the magnets, instead of bringing magnets down.  Probably not possible with the district's current budget problems.

After all, there are still

After all, there are still lots of people in WCPSS who could go elsewhere if they wanted to. 

Bob, I think we have most parents by the balls.  They both work long hours at unstable jobs and live in a huge houses they could not afford and is worth half of what they bought it for now ... a few more problems and they are homeless .... I don't think they have much choice really ... there are some smart parents who are not over extended and have the disposable income but most are crushed under debt and have to ride it out ... besides ... how sad to spend every waking hour working to pay for school and never getting time to be with your kids can make you wonder why you had them ... so, I am thinking leaving the pubic system is a bogeyman ... the system can get a lot worse and many families will hold on just trying to survive.   

As far as bonds ... another bogeyman ... no matter what Republican do, every kids is afforded a public education by law ... they can only make is so bad ...eventually the law will confiscate their wealth to fund public education ... they can not stop the new schools and can not stop paying for them ... the only question is how much more they will pay for them using long term bonds or current income.

So I don't factor in any threats of leaving the system.  Pubic education is like roads or the libraries ... a government offering ... not too hot or too cold ... but the minimum the law requires ...government schools are not high performance or customer driven .. the best we can hope for is a good value for the money ... So, now that we put that aside leaving the system or not paying for it, we need to just do what we need to do - improve all school, get additional funding where needed, take the diminishing white population to get in line, end magnet envy, float all boats, improve minority performance, reduce the disparity between schools.......

Um, have you priced private

Um, have you priced private high schools lately? Even though we opted for private in ES and MS, attending Cardinal Gibbons would be a huge stretch, especially for 2. Ravens croft is out of the question.

When the budget ax hits, and kids at base schools can't get enough AP classes to qualify for UNC, yet magnets still have all their classes, do you think 'most middle class parents' will be satisfied?

So...

So, first of all, Ravenscroft is an anomoly.  NRCS is $7500, I think.

But, secondly, recognize that I'm not talking about everybody -- there are certainly people who cannot stretch any further.  But, there are certainly also those who can stretch by, for example, buying used cars every 8 years instead of new ones every 4. 

As to your last paragraph, I agree completely.  If base schools lose many of their advanced classes, but magnets are kept intact, I think you'll see many very angry parents.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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