The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?
WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.
This post is for people who want to talk about Thursday night's reassignment/diversity forum.
The event brought groups from opposite sides of the issue, the Coalition of Concerned Citizens for African American Children and the Wake Schools Community Alliance, to the same table.
I wasn't at the hearing but Ruth Sheehan attended. There may be a column about the forum in Monday's newspaper.
Comments
Wake leader backs busing for school diversity
Sun, 03/01/2009 - 09:09 — AngelaWhttp://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1423959.html
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Mon, 03/02/2009 - 05:33 — JanisTango.
vsheehan, I can relate...
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 14:58 — AngelaWlike the disillusionment of voting for bonds, truly believing they were "for the children" even in years BEFORE my kids were in school and even the years that my first was in private and we were scraping bottom to have him there, I STILL believed in them and voted for them!
now the contempt and despair, the trapped feeling that WCPSS provides parents has me kicking myself for so long, falling for their crap!
I won't ever forget, maybe not even forgive (for I am not that good a person), the politicians and despots who so wrongly steer this ship into a whirlpool of mediocrity for selling their bill of goods, all in the name of "diversity".....
If you think that getting
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 18:03 — user1234If you think that getting rid of diversity as a policy will some how equate to not being mediocre, I think you are going to be disappointed with the result personally. Public education of 123k kids is going to tend toward the middle – a compromise between federal and state requirement, parent’s demands, kid’s ability and taxpayer’s willingness to foot the bill. WCPSS will never be as good asCary Academy Northern Va.
Retort
Sun, 03/01/2009 - 10:27 — Voice_of_Reason_1. While an adequate funding level is needed, there are many other factors to good education. Good ideas and solid methodology are much more important. If money was the answer, explain why so many people in the past got better educations in far harsher school environments. I think I did pretty good for no A/C and nowhere near the facilities that Wake County schools have.
2.WCPSS will never be as good as Cary Academy or Ravenscroft. True but the real test is if the top students compare favorably to each other.
3. I do believe in the end allowing neighborhood schools to reform you will get some schools that perform better than others due to normal reasons. But now, given the fact that federal money and oversight will be on Title I high F&R schools those schools will not be ignored like they were over 40 years ago. Children will get more sleep and a better sense of community will be re-established.
4. The best rebut I have on more money is the inconvienient truth of this article : [Money does not = Education] when money wasn't an issue.
From that same research from the CATO Institute (Please don't call me racist for showing you this, I had nothing to do with the study):
"In perhaps the biggest surprise, Armor's studies found
that black elementary students who go to magnet schools
(which have the highest percentages of whites) score no
better on standardized tests than do blacks who go to all black nonmagnet schools. In short, Armor found that,
contrary to the notion on which the whole desegregation plan was founded--that going to school with middle-class whites would increase blacks' achievement--the Kansas City experiment showed that "integration has no effect.".... So exactly why do we bus, does it give different results on economic diversity?
1. Agree … as you
Sun, 03/01/2009 - 12:49 — user12341. Agree … as you pointed out elsewhere how in the Air Force, lower economic kids tended toward mediocrity, lower middle class kids were hungry and wealthy – privileged kids appeared to be lazy. At least that is the way I read it and agreed that “hungry” kids can squeeze a benefit from a turnip. I have seen where some of the top students for the worst urban public schools are Vietnamese and came here not knowing English off a boat and ended up squeezing a full ride to an Ivy League school out of the poor performing school.
2. Agree
3. I will wait to see. Personally, I think as the day of reckoning (full NCLB) gets closer; the government will step back and not follow through.
5. Again, your argument is framed around test scores. Test scores can be measured, sorted and analyzed which appeals to action oriented, result minded people. School also serve the function of socialization in America where kid may for the first time meet other kids outside their neighborhood, church, economic … kids they will need represent in government, protect in the military, or hire / work for in business.
Money, money, money
Mon, 03/02/2009 - 00:14 — Falc"I do care when someone says some other place is better and neglects to say the spend more to make it happen. That is either ignorance or an effort to mislead people."
There are potential improvements that cost little or no money.
So as not to seem "ignorant" or "misleading", I have posted it before, but will post it again. My hometown all Title I schools not-in-Title I improvement district spends $500 more per student than Wake County.
Of course, according to WCPSS it is not comparable because it is in another state and there isn't a national curriculum and each state sets its own standards. To me, that does not take away from the fact that the 40% LI school and the 80% LI school there produce the same results by that state's standards.
I'm confused. We are focusing on 21st Century Learning to compete globally even though there is not a global curriculum or global standards, but we can't compare ourselves to a district in another state and maybe learn from something that they may be doing better. I have a hard time following the logic.
I am with you. If we can
Mon, 03/02/2009 - 10:34 — user1234I am with you. If we can find a place that has the answers or even partial answers, let steal all their good ideas. Personally, I have this bad feeling that it does not matter how much we spend on LI that they will always be similar in scoring +/- 10% in every school system which goes against my optimism. Maybe home conditions, environment, violence, health, etc. is more than any school system can overcome in 12 year of six hours a day.
I know allot of my remarks
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 09:07 — vsheehanI know allot of my remarks about the meeting have been extremely angry. I have been working on forgiving so that anger would go away. To forgive first I had to figure out why I was so angry.
What made me so angry was I felt betrayed. I have meet other bigots and thanks to an interesting childhood as the only half Lebanese family in an Irish/Italian neighborhood I have learned to forgive others for their bigoted actions wither it be words or rocks. When I went to the meeting I knew I would meet some people who would look at my skin and judge me but I didn’t expect the keynote speaker to start his speech with a statement that compared my wanting of massive reassignments/MYR to end to be equated with the anti forced desegregation maliciousness of the 60’s. I was Calla’s cheerleader on this site and I felt abused after that speech for believing in Calla. I thought the meeting would be a let’s see where we can compromise not a beat the crap out of those who disagree with us. I expected more from Calla , I didn’t expect her to be a bigot.
To forgive, I need to remember that Calla is human and we all have our faults. In this case Calla didn’t want to hear anything she just wanted to be right and feel justified. My job is to accept that. Accepting that leads me to the fact I can be proud that I was hurt because I came with an open mind an expected the same of others. If I hadn’t I would not of been so angry.
I’m not angry anymore just disappointed. I still think what Calla does is great but the pedestal I put her on has been knocked over. I think that in the end is where the most anger comes from the loss of that pedestal. I can forgive but I will never get over losing that pedestal I put Calla on.
vsheehan
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 10:14 — SideburnsSuch eloquent words. Thanks for sharing your insight.
What does diversity mean
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 00:45 — SDR256I did attend the meeting last night. What struck me is that there seemed to be very few neighborhood parents in the room. There were lots of representatives and politicians. Lots of folks who are used to synthesizing what they think a solution might be. But not so many parents with kids in public schools. It made me wonder....what does the term diverse mean? Some speakers spoke about being ready for a global future, that we needed to have diverse school communities to be ready for a global future. What is the global future? That future is here. I have Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Polish, Bulgarian, Russian, French, Haitian neighbors. Most of these folks speak 2 or three languages fluently. The global future is here. What does diversity mean? Is the Coalition of Concerned Citizens for African American Children concerned about the children of those families? Are they concerned about the children in my family? Children should not be separated by color. I would challenge them that their concern is not diversity at all. By very definition of their name.
It is very confusing. The
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 01:38 — CaryCurmudgeonIt is very confusing. The school board members say they strive for socio-economic diversity, which I understand to mean less-wealthy children go to school with more-wealthy children. Then last night's meeting happens and Vernon Malone and Stan Norwalk get up and say socio-economic diversity is the same as racial diversity, and that people who want neighborhood schools are racists.
I work for a big company. In my company, the spirit of diversity means inclusion of male, female, and every race, creed or color. In my neighborhood, my kids have friends who are male, female, white, black, chinese, Indian and European. In my kids' schools, they have an even more diverse set of friends. Race, F&R status, etc. do not matter.
I make no apologies for wanting to have my children attend schools close to where they live. No one in Wake County should feel guilty about wanting NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS. It is truly sad when the simple desire to have your kids go to school nearby means you may be labeled as a racist -- even by a county commissioner that represents you. Perhaps labelling parents who want their kids to go to school close to home as "geographically-challenged" is appropriate, but "racist" is out of bounds.
Diversity can mean many things, and each of us chooses the definition that makes the most sense to us. Diversity comes from the heart, it doesn't come from a school bus or a redistricting plan.
Cary I don’t think
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 12:15 — user1234I don’t think people are that far apart. The BOE at a minimum needs teachers to show up everyday and teach the state provided curricula to attain minimum proficiency. Note, this is not the end game but they need to at least attain that level before they expand to grander ventures. I have already shown that Wake Co. has one on the lowest funding per student yet is one of the wealthiest counties. There appears to be a contradiction in the numbers. Business interests just want a stable system that meets most needs, relatively attractive, produces employable kids, and stays out of the news for violence, etc. Ultimately, the “system” wants low key, average, right down the middle (yeah yeah ... they should want to be more ... yeah yeah someplace in VA, CT, CA does it better). That is the nature of government and large bureaucracies. That is why private enterprise best public ones. I see the diversity issue as a red herring to stir emotions. You have a wonderful new facility at Panther Creek that is probably close to your home. There are a few F&R kids that probably come from outside the 1.5 mile radius. You mention your kids are friends with them. I have shown that F&Rs are spread across the county and not coming from some downtown ghetto so most schools could accommodate “local” F&Rs without too much gerrymandering. Also, I sense a fear in the Black community that powerful interests will abandon them again if they get marginalized. “Black” schools did not work when they were young and bring back bad memories of substandard facilities. “Local: schools were a way in the past (yes ... 30 year is long ago for some and recent for others) to keep Blacks out of White schools that were better equipped and maintained. So, if people here want local schools they need to implement ways to reduce the disparity that we have now and which will increase without some accounting for diversity and they need to find ways to assure Blacks that they won’t be kicked to the curb and relegated to inferior “Black” schools again. Public school will never rival public schools but they can improve. People can go to convenient schools and have convenient schedules but it will take compromise and understanding all the stakeholders to arrive there.
vsheehan's alternate universe
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 23:39 — FalcThanks for laugh.
15 years ago I lived in your alternate universe across the street from a woman I am pretty sure was selling herself. Her first grader told us that he got expelled from school and had to go to the bad school. I now live outside the golden gates of Cary.
Cary had the same stigma then, so people have been blaming Cary for a long time. I will just keep shaking my head at those that make assumptions about another person, another group, another town, while patting themselves on the back for touting diversity.
I once went to a party at the Trailer Park. One of my coworkers lived there with his wife and four kids, but he's white (Russian decent), so apparently doesn't count when it comes to some people's view of diversity.
I can't help but wonder how many supporters of the current diversity policy have ever been in a trailer park, let alone lived in one.
ot
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 20:46 — Sideburnshttp://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/27/education.school.year/index.html
How would this fit with YR schools?
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 22:29 — Voice_of_Reason_Maybe this might kill MYR. I don't think a longer school year is possible. Of course, we would have to build more schools. Anyway I doubt this goes anywhere, it will be an unfunded mandate that states will balk at. Oh, sorry I forgot they ordered a few hundred more printing presses at the US Mint.
Will never happen here!
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 08:37 — g88ky07Not with our current un-uniform and un-equal school system. Stan Norwalk might think otherwise, but for those of us who have been FORCED into an MYR calendar, there's no calendar left to extend. Hear that Stan, if not, turn up your hearing aid!
Good try Mr. School Zar, next!
Are ya sure because I heard
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 22:49 — vsheehanAre ya sure because I heard they decommisioned the 1000 presses that Bush had in use the past 7 years.
I like upping the testing
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 21:47 — vsheehanI like upping the testing standards part. WCPSS wouldn't be able to get away with the new dumbing down of the writing test. Do you know there are rumblings to get rid of Home work in WCPSS? Try getting away with that with higher standers.
I do not like the more money for teachers who do well and firing those who don't. That means less teachers for schools that has a high population of kids who do not care.. Let see you get a bonus if the kids you teach live in a community that cares about education or teach at a school were the kids treatschool like prision. Let see where would you teach?
Oh China has a good education system? I know there preschools were highly regarded lets go Wiki it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China
Oh wait look this is a national law in China
" Under the Law on Nine-Year Compulsory Education, primary schools were to be tuition-free and reasonably located for the convenience of children attending them"
Sounds good, but
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 09:05 — fiestamomIf the testing indicates that WCPSS isn't educating the children, what is that going to matter? There are already plenty of indicators that the students are trending down, but WCPSS hides the data.
"Those lazy days of summer
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 20:53 — user1234"Those lazy days of summer may become a thing of the past if the new secretary of education has his way."
I guess we'll sue the US govt too.
Extended school year
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 21:49 — SideburnsThat's all you got out of that article? Take your blinders off once in awhile.
What I find interesting is that an extended school year not only shortens a summertime break, it also puts a kink in a YR calendar. WCPSS has a hard enough time getting a 9 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 180 day school year to fit. Imagine if that 180 was increased.
_amn right!
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 21:24 — g88ky07_amn right!
OT: What happens when the jeolousy is unchecked
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 18:44 — Voice_of_Reason_[LINK TO STORY]
What happened to "Thou shall not Covet thy Neighbor's Goods"
What happened to "Thou
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 20:42 — user1234What happened to "Thou shall not covet thy Neighbor's Goods"
I definitely don’t covet anything you have. I think you should spend less time trying to hold on to possessions, you won’t have them forever.
I don’t see your link as being about coveting as much as frustration over the economy and unemployment inEurope . Notice they did not steal the cars, they burned them. I keep warning you about the threat of building a permanent underclass of unskilled, unemployable people. You think working to fix that problem is being a liberal. I see it as security for our future.
Do not worry, user1234
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 23:04 — Voice_of_Reason_I could happily live in a tent and live off the land--- BTW I have lived in a tent for months at a time in the desert you know. And I live within my means, don't run up debt, and I don't play the keeping up with the Jones game either. I appreciate I've been blessed and thank God for it. Hey user1234 if you pay federal income taxes you help pay me, I know you'd appreciate that, thanks.
Permanent underclass
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 21:53 — Falc"You think working to fix that problem is being a liberal."
I don't think working to fix that problem is being a liberal. I doubt most people, other than liberals, think that working to fix that problem is being a liberal.
I do think that liberals and nonliberals have philosophical differences on how to fix that problem. A lot of liberals seem to confuse disagreeing with them on how to fix the problem with not wanting to fix the problem.
.
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 19:00 — Voice_of_Reason_.
.
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 18:59 — Voice_of_Reason_.
.
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 18:58 — Voice_of_Reason_.
vsheehan, I hope that you
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 17:17 — jenmanvsheehan, I hope that you didn't take offense by anything that I said above. If it sounded like I was making a negative comment about you or towards you, I'm truly sorry because I really didn't mean to argue with anybody. Or to make anybody feel like they are 'wrong' because they didn't see things the same way I did.
BadSnort--I do agree with you that the segregation argument distracts and is inflammatory. I guess that I just really want to see the best in people and believe that we can get through to each other. It's so easy for somebody to hold the view that we want to resegregate the schools when they don't know us. When they haven't had a chance to truly discuss the issues with us to see our real intentions. But I do share your frustration with the perception that we are racist. Its downright offensive.
"It's so easy for somebody
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 20:26 — user1234"It's so easy for somebody to hold the view that we want to resegregate the schools when they don't know us. "
jenman, while your intention is not to resegregate that is the likely outcome looking at other cities.
You and Stan
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 08:43 — g88ky07can label it what ever you want, a fact you should get ready for and used to,
IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN! NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS are coming to a neighborhood near us all! And so are family and education focused boe reps!!!! How about 'dat Stan Jr.!
And who's fault is it?
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 20:49 — Voice_of_Reason_People live where they chose to live. There are low income housing apartments throughout Raleigh and other places in the county. If schools are an issue then use Sec 8 vouchers and move. But this isn't about racial segregation is it. It about the cruelty that WCPSS brings on the unsuspecting in the name of fairness. Never mind it doesn't help the students, only the individual schools.
Too many laws now.
That meeting was called for a reason
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 18:04 — Voice_of_Reason_Like I said, the Jack of Hearts was played, I sure there will be more played before the election. That meeting was a friendly overture. But think about motives, why did they hold it...I guarantee you it wasn't about trying to change their minds. I hope they realize the motive for ending economic diversity busing is not about race -- it's about children and families.
I didn't take offense I
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 17:44 — vsheehanI didn't take offense I don't even know what comment you mean. As far as getting to know each others view point wasn't that what last night was meant to be about? Look what happened it was a you're all bigots.Well if I was a bigot why would I want you on my side. I wouldn't even show up.
I don't think that the
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 13:30 — jenmanI don't think that the meeting was a waste of time at all. I agree that suspicions are very high and like Eric said nobody called anybody a racist but the implication was there.
Of course nobody's mind was changed last night and they didn't walk away from the meeting thinking "hey, these people are wanting what's best for all of our kids". But I think some walked away from the meeting thinking "hey, maybe they aren't advocating re-segregation". Progress cannot be made in one meeting, but I think that last night was a great start towards a better understanding between us. We will never fully agree on what the solution is but if we can eventually see the good intentions in each other I'll be happy.
As for being frustrated that the argument goes back to segregation instead of education, I understand that frustration and share it. Wake County is a different world now with more racial and cultural diversity than we can count--its not just black and white anymore. While the days of segregation seem to be very much in the past for many of us, it wasn't really that long ago. I bet that for many of the people there last night it still feels like yesterday. We are all shaped by our experiences and it colors the lens by which we view things. I can't say that I'd feel any different if *I* had been the one bused, as one man put it last night, "past 4 or 5 nice white schools to get to the black dump".
I really do think this was a great start to achieving a better understanding of each other and our 'true' intentions.
"I can't say that I'd feel
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 01:05 — user1234"I can't say that I'd feel any different if *I* had been the one bused, as one man put it last night, "past 4 or 5 nice white schools to get to the black dump". " .
I am guessing many white families don't fully appreciate the pain and stigma segregation had on Blacks and the return to Black and White schools probably brings back bad memories of opportunity lost when they were young.
Your comments
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 01:17 — SDR256If you are who I think you are, folks in the room winced when you spoke of concentrations of people automatically creating crime and drug trafficking. It was an embarrasing moment I think you were completely unaware of. Don't proselytize about something you clearly are unequipped to even understand at an entry level.
Having grew up in the south
Sat, 02/28/2009 - 10:55 — user1234Having grew up in the south in a "white" school in the turmoil of segregation, I feel comfortable I understand these issues and feel for the speaker and his concerns.
I will acknowledge that I
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 15:59 — BadSnortI will acknowledge that I would most likely have a different perspective if I, or my mother, or even my grandmother had been treated the way that black children were treated back then.
But still, the emotion-based accusations/implications that people who don't back busing policies are racist and want segregation are simply incorrect and I find them offensive and distracting from the issue at hand.
One has to wonder how many
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 12:52 — CaryCurmudgeonOne has to wonder how many of the people who got up last night and hurled accusations at those who challenge the status quo actually get up at 5am every day to put their kids on an hour-long bus ride. I doubt Stan does :)
Does this mean I don't have
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 11:57 — BadSnortDoes this mean I don't have to eat a crow burrito?
I am so glad I didn't go. I'd be mad I wasted my time and energy. I folded laundry and did wii fit. Much more productive.
...
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 13:16 — SideburnsBadsnort,
I take my crow medium rare. Your insight was spot on.
I continued to be dismayed by the lack of willingness to understand and the continued drag back to a 1975 mentality.
well since the educational
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 13:21 — AngelaWwell since the educational VALUE seems to date back til then, why not the whole mentality of "stuck in the past".....let's get with the 21st Century....c'mon October!
You're safe
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 12:17 — g88ky07from burrito fest. Not that you were worried I'm sure!
Clips from the meeting
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 11:33 — Eric_BClips from the meeting available here:
http://wake.mync.com/site/wake/news|Sports|Lifestyles/story/28266/wake-parents-speak-out-on-diversity
and Stan Norwalk's talk, almost in its entirety, is here:
http://wakecommunity.blogspot.com/2009/02/does-stan-norwalk-even-know-what-he.html
Stan Norwalk
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 15:00 — g88ky07lost and wandering the fields of diversity!
Eric, thanks for posting
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 11:56 — AngelaWEric, thanks for posting these clips...
was ANYthing gained from this at all? it appears to be same old, same old, you are either "with us" or you are a "racist", is that the wrong impression to take away, was something else touched on?
was ANYone who held the meeting concerned with the EDUCATION factors? Or simply the socio-economic "healthy" schools?
What I got from the meeting
Fri, 02/27/2009 - 12:29 — Eric_BWhat I got from the meeting is that suspicions are high that if you are not for the diversity policy as it currently is implemented, you are seeking to re-segregate schools back to the way they were in the early 1970s. Nobody came out and said anyone was a racist, but there were comments to the effect of "we know what you are really trying to do" by changing the socioeconomic diversity policy.
This suspicion is so great that all other issues such as education factors or the inconvenience for families involved in constant reassignments are secondary factors.