The majority of the agenda for today's meeting of the Wake County school board's economically disadvantaged student performance task force is slated to be on two subjects.
The task force will hear a presentation from school board member Keith Sutton about the achievement of African American male students. He's concerned about the low test scores and graduation rates for those students.
The task force is also hoping to finally get an idea of the placement numbers in middle school this year for pre-algebra and Algebra I. The group has been waiting for months since some members questioned whether the reported gains among minority students was as high as reported by staff.
The meeting starts at 4:30 p.m. at Ligon Middle School, 706 E. Lenoir Street in Raleigh. (I know I still haven't posted about the last ED task force meeting. I'll get to it as soon as I can.)
UPDATE
Click here to view the revised agenda for the meeting, which now also includes a discussion on long-term suspensions for students with disabilities.
I'll go into more detail later but things got heated tonight after Keith Sutton's presentation.
The ensuing Q&A largely turned into a debate over student assignment and the elimination of the diversity policy, with some shouting from the crowd at John Tedesco.
Comments
I used to believe in freedon
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 18:06 — willynillyI used to believe in freedom of speech here in this country, but I guess not. CaryCurmudgeon asked for my email contact info to get my documentation. I emailed Keung to ask for that or to share my email with CC. I also asked Keung if he wanted me to send him my documentation, he refused. I had given him a small part of it a few years ago. Even asked him if he wanted to do a story on it. I have defended Keung against nay sayers as far as being controlled here on this BLOG. I can/could produce signed letters and emails that prove what the WCPSS will do to teachers in this county and offered that. I can prove anything I have said here given the opportunity. Without much detail the news and observer have proven that they will bow to the wishes to of the WCPSS. That's unfortunate that a healthy dialogue and outlet has now been ended. My expectation that this post will be deleted soon. Sorry CaryCrumdgeon.....apparently we will not make contact.
This applies to willynilly
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 00:28 — KeungHui (author)This applies to willynilly and anyone else on the blog. As I explained to him, I didn't see the comment where he apparently asked me to forward his contact info to Cary Curmudgeon. There are a lot of comments being posted each day. I try to read them all but there can be delay, especially if I'm busy. If there's a case of anyone here wanting me to forward their contact info to another poster, the best thing to do is to send me an e-mail rather than hope I see that comment.
So...
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 20:55 — chaboard....why are you coming down on Keung? He has a fulltime job and it's not being your social director. A couple of suggestions:
1) If you want to make your material public put it on Google Docs or elsewhere and, you know, make it public. I know I'd like to see what all the fuss is about sometime.
2) If instead you just want to get in touch with Joe (putting aside the fact that he's in the phone book) or any other individual here.....how hard is it to create a one-off gmail or yahoo email address just for that purpose, post it here for Joe to use, make contact, and move on?
So...
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 18:45 — Bob_SconceWilly -- recognize that there are two sides to every story. Either you're a good teacher who was done wrong by the system and are trying to correct an injustice or you're a disgruntled ex-employee with a grudge, and there's an awful lot of grey area in between. Further, no matter what happens, we're probably talking about sensitive information about individuals who don't put themselves out in the public in ways that invite public scrutiny. I can see why Keung may be less than entheusiastic about digging into it.
But, if you want to make your information public, it's actually pretty easy: scan it, put it on docstor, and then post a link. (Of course, depending on what that information is, doing so could get you into a lot of trouble.)
I have, unfortunately, observed more disciplinary and termination meetings than I would like. The details are invariably messy and never clear cut. But, the employer has the power and usually wins. My suggestion is to flip your middle finger to them (not literally) and go on with your life.
...
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 22:12 — Sideburns"The ensuing Q&A largely turned into a debate over student assignment and the elimination of the diversity policy, with some shouting from the crowd at John Tedesco."
I bet I can figure out at least one person who was shouting with just one guess. Why is this sort of behavior allowed to continue?
I really hope that Dr.
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 13:15 — jenmanI really hope that Dr. Dudley Flood is at this meeting. There was an interesting column from Barry Saunders back in Nov that had a great quote from Dr. Flood.
I can teach a stick. I don't care where you're from, who your parents are.
The whole column is worth a read. I'm disappointed that there was never a follow up and that it was never reported by anybody but Saunders.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/11/11/795138/get-real-do-it-for-our-kids.html
Interesting Letter today...
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 12:50 — Bob_Sconcehttp://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/03/964093/enloes-divide.html
Two schools in one?
Follow up comment from Mr.
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 10:49 — loriacFollow up comment from Mr. Zhang posted today:
Note Posted via Facebook
Feb 3rd
Regarding my recent letter to the editor:
I wish I could offer a simple straightforward apology for the damage I have caused my school, but you deserve more than that. You deserve a full truthful explanation of why. I will not lie to you and say my motives were completely free of malicious intent, but never was it my desire to harm the school that has given me so much.
To start this conversation, you must first know why I care about diversity. Whenever I reflect on something I have recently learned, I attempt to find its relevance to see what greater insights about life itself such information provides. Often I find myself at a mental impasse, when all input seems so similar new realizations become increasingly scarce; facts pour in, yet I learn little. Genuine diversity, a real difference of perspective, reseeds my mind and allows that learning to continue. I care about diversity because it is so vital to the pursuit of truth.
Recent events have been frustrating for everyone, but what bothers me is the pattern of ignorance and apathy coming from some whom express support for a position with little understanding of it; my frustration is intensified when I happen to agree with them. It is especially irritating when students espouse a superficial appreciation for diversity without being able to cite a real reason. With great fear and hesitation, I must admit I feel like many students are only emulating the various leaders they have come to love and respect, thereby foregoing the need to think critically for themselves. However duly earned this respect is and however noble the espoused cause, removing this opportunity, even unintentionally, is nonetheless harmful.
We are all appalled when politics is corrupted by slogans and phrases devoid of any meaning, but ask yourself: Have you ever supported your cause with rhetoric you did not understand? Have you ever ridiculed the opposition without giving them a fair hearing? If not, ask yourself if you have ever been silent after seeing someone do so. Many of us criticized the school board for putting our county’s accreditation at risk, but never did I hear anyone question whether it was appropriate to tie political interests, though honorable, with a verification of basic academic standards. We owe it to ourselves and the future classes to remain the honest, open-minded, rational thinkers we so often are, and use only the truth to advance our interests.
I believe many interpreted my words as an argument against magnet schools and the diversity policy. This was never my intention. However, I believe these tools provide only the first step towards diversity, and there remain miles to go even after a school’s population has been diversified on paper. No one questions the fact that Enloe’s student body is not evenly distributed among classrooms. Maybe this is not the time for introspection and self-doubt, but when will it be? Before this entire school board controversy, before the issue was plastered all over the news, where was this student-led righteous fervor demanding we strive for better? I know I did not act, and I deeply regret it, but we must ask ourselves why we did not act then, and if our mentality will be different given the same circumstances once again. We need to be ever questioning and never complacent.
What I see is the danger of ideals and absolutes. Enloe is quite possibly the flagship of diverse public schools, but it is still far from a model. The achievement statistics speak for themselves. It is the best example we currently have and should be followed but not worshiped. It was this inflated sense of self-satisfaction that first allowed an outspoken minority to seize power. That being said, we must also not demonize the opposition. I have heard countless personal attacks against John Tedesco, some deserved and others not, but all are unbecoming of what we claim to be. Personal attacks serve no purpose but to alienate those we wish to convince; rash emotional impulses are natural but we need to recognize the damage they cause.
That being said, I am sorry. In the early morning hours of February 1st, I wrote with misguided passion. Tired mentally, and quite literally just tired, I submitted what I can only explain as letter verbally lashing out against these attitudes I felt were being ignored. My frustration was real but misplaced, and my actions were entirely non-productive. I am sincerely sorry for hurting my peers, my teachers, and my school.
Jay Zhang
Why would someone apologize
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:23 — woodstockWhy would someone apologize for telling the truth... and make the leap that the truth can cause harm? Very weird.
Wow...
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:00 — Bob_SconceThat's scary. What on earth happened over there that he felt it necessary to post this to his facebook page? It seems that those who breach tolerance have little for those who disagree with them.
I'm wondering the same
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 15:04 — jenmanI'm wondering the same thing. He's got nothing to apologize for.
This is one smart kid. Truly. It takes a lot of maturity to write what he did.
I should have noted that
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:26 — loriacI should have noted that this was also posted as a response to his LTE.
I can only imagine what went on at school yesterday. Someone dared to question the regime.
Don't mess with the Magnet
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:30 — woodstockDon't mess with the Magnet Mafia... you are in or you are out with them. There is no tolerance for disagreement.
...
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 23:07 — SideburnsI heard from an Enloe parent that this student is being hassled at school for writing this LTE. One teacher told his class that he was going to pull the college recommendation letters he wrote for Mr. Zhang.
What is wrong with this school?
"One teacher told his class
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 09:47 — woodstock"One teacher told his class that he was going to pull the college recommendation letters he wrote for Mr. Zhang."
If that is true, there needs to be one more person added to the unemployment stats. That is unconscionable. The culture at Enloe is getting very concerning.
So...
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 01:56 — Bob_SconceThat's at least third-hand but, If true, it's completely messed up. Ignore actually pulling the letters, what sort of teacher tells his class about a different student's college application?
It maybe
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 23:53 — Solon77It maybe that Mr. Zhang's comments were not entirely true. Think about it, 4 years with a plethora of electives and only 2 AA in a class ! I wonder what he did for PE, Arts, Healthful Living ? Mr. Zhang must have been on a exclusive track.
I Heard The Same Thing...
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 08:30 — JanisTangofrom two girls that graduated with honors from Enloe two years ago! They both said, we don't really see any of 'those' kids in our classes, etc. I believe their exact words were...'they are on one side of the school and we are on another...it's basically two schools'. Were they lying too?
Regardless of this young
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 08:05 — jenmanRegardless of this young man's letter, we know that minority children have been denied access to higher level math classes. At the ED task force meeting last night, a comment heard more than once from parents of AA boys was the lack of high expectations for their sons. One was a mother whose child is at Ligon. She said it wasn't just low expectations for her son it was no expectations. She said it was like 'what are you doing in this class'?
This is a problem. It has existed for years and will continue to exist no matter what assignment policy we are using. I am not using this example to condemn magnet schools; I know that this problem exists everywhere, and not just in Wake County. But it does give us more evidence that this is indeed a problem and that it also exists at the magnets. Did Jay Zhang really have that few AA students in his classes? I don't know, but it doesn't negate the larger point of his letter.
But
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 09:32 — Dove314Your post highlights an issue though -- there are two things being twisted into one topic. There is the issue of "two schools within a school" set up, in part, by how expectations are set for ED or non-white children. Given the evidence with EVAAS, this is happening across all of WCPSS and is not unique to magnet schools. The effort to portray this as uniquely something at Enloe is inaccurate. It is, as someone noted, happening at high schools all-over WCPSS.
The second issue relates to a desire to change the magnet program. A review of the magnet program is fine but don't try use the an argument that is true of all the high schools and is really independent of magnet status.
Let me explain what makes
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 23:47 — klanders65Let me explain what makes this worse at the magnet schools. The magnet schools, like Enloe, have first rate top notch advanced courses, and many of them. So, the low income and black students in the same kind of bottom-level classes as low income and black students in the non-magnets, learn about the same amount of nothing. At the magnet schools, the non-black, non-ED students take much better courses than the non-black, non-ED students at the non-magnets. So, the gap between the haves and have nots is bigger.
I think some people are bothered by the fact that the district spends funds and resources to attract the non-black, non-ED students into the magnets and provide them these first rate educations, while the black and ED students in those schools get the same crappy educations they would get in any of our schools.
Some argue that the minority and ED kids are benefiting from having these kids in their building. They don't get to take any decent courses, just like they wouldn't get to in any of our high schools. The magnet schools are not worse to these kids than the non-magnets. They don't seem to be benefiting academically from having non-ED kids come into their building and take really great courses. And, that is what makes some people say that our magnet system is not benefiting these kids.
The Diversity Policy was never about achievement or closing gaps. The magnet program was designed to not have too many poor people in one building. Some people are forgetting that and are looking at student achievement. Student achievement is significantly impacted by lack of access to rigorous courses. People who mistakenly think the Diversity Policy was about raising achievement think the magnets were not promoting that goal since the ED and minority kids are not allowed to take any of the "achievement enhancing" courses in them. They think the magnets are not filling their mission. But their mission is not achievement. Their mission is to have some non-ED kids in the building, and they are doing that.
If E&R knew how, they could run analyses to document how many ED and minority kids are in advanced courses at Enloe. We don't have to find students who can tell us whether they have Black students in our classes. We could know this from an analyses of course enrollment data. This could be known.
You are talking about WCPSS specifically right?
Sun, 02/06/2011 - 14:04 — nmoskal"The magnet program was designed to not have too many poor people in one building."
You are talking about WCPSS specifically right (and agree that, not student achievement, was the design here of magnets and the diversity policy in general). However, according the Department of Education, magnet schools ARE supposed to address achievement. I thought this was the reason WCPSS didn't get the last grant approved, because one of the reviewers noted it didn't seem to address achievement (believe specifically noted for A-A males).
From the Department of Education:
http://www2.ed.gov/programs/magnet/index.html
"These grants assist in the desegregation of public schools by supporting the elimination, reduction, and prevention of minority group isolation in elementary and secondary schools with substantial numbers of minority group students. In order to meet the statutory purposes of the program, projects also must support the development and implementation of magnet schools that assist in the achievement of systemic reforms and provide all students with the opportunity to meet challenging academic content and student academic achievement standards. Projects support the development and design of innovative education methods and practices that promote diversity and increase choices in public education programs. The program supports capacity development–the ability of a school to help all its students meet more challenging standards–through professional development and other activities that will enable the continued operation of the magnet schools at a high performance level after funding ends. Finally, the program supports the implementation of courses of instruction in magnet schools that strengthen students’ knowledge of academic subjects and their grasp of tangible and marketable vocational skills."
The data doesn't seem to reflect that ALL students are currently being provided with opportunity to meet challenging academic content and achievement standards in our magnets. I'd be curious if magnets elsewhere reflect the same issue (and wouldn't be surprised if they do). Where's the accountability?
Still twisting two things together
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 08:56 — Dove314I hear what you are saying. But I disagree with your premise at the high school level. Green Hope and Wakefield have almost the same number of AP classes as Enloe and yet children can't even apply to get in to either one of them. The only way into either of those schools is to be able to afford to live in one of the assigned nodes, arguably even more restrictive than the Enloe admission policies (or via video link if you are Knightdale). What proportion of ED and minority kids are tracking into those AP classes at these other schools? What about the proportion of ED and minority kids tracked in to any AP class regardless of school?
Perhaps your premise is more applicable at the ES and MS levels? So much of HS seems set by decisions made at the ES and MS levels. I agree that having an analysis of course enrollment data county wide by course, school, FRL status, and ethnicity would make an interesting read.
These are two separate points and need to be recognized as such. To focus just on Enloe as having this problem misses the need to fix this problem of how students are tracked which is true across the whole of WCPSS including Green Hope, Wakefield, Knightdale, and the other HS. If the goal is to help understand and improve achievement among underachieving ED students, then the whole problem needs to be acknowledged. By correctly scoping the problem and acknowledging this is systematic across the whole of WCPSS, the degree of challenge and what is needed are better understood.
It is a separate question to ask if funds being spent at magnets to attract non-ED students to a school that would otherwise likely be racially and economically segregated are warranted. To continue to criticize and argue for changes to magnet schools on the basis of underachieving ED students when it is true of all schools is shortsighted and counterproductive to really helping the ED population truly achieve.
It is another question if you want more AP classes at schools which don't have them. If Green Hope can do video links then why couldn't Enloe or Wakefield? Why not come up with a way to offer a set of the core AP classes at all high schools then spread the rest around the county but create a mechanism to videolink a class offered only at one to all the other high schools? This would allow kids at every high school who have an interest have the option to take any of the AP classes.
We don't disagree
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 13:25 — klanders65We don't so much disagree. I just wasn't clear. Let me try this:
ED and minority students are kept out of advanced courses everywhere in the district, unless some individual leaders are in a school, and they make the exception. Some schools have more advanced opportunities than others, so those schools will have higher achievement gaps. (And they do.) These include some magnets and some non-magnets.
It begins in elementary school, where we label children as AG or SWD (Academically Gifted or Student With Disability). This happens early, is subjective, and the label stays with the kids. Take the look at the data. AG is white and Asian, and upper class and SWD is low income and minority.
So, the kids all over the district enter middle schools with their labels. They get tracked then, if they haven't already been. The district officially calls low income and SWD kids "academically at risk." So, students like Black males enter middle school being officially labeled as SWD at extremely high rates, are called "academically at risk" officially, and someone needs to decide which track to put them on. Only middle school math has objective academic criteria, which would give these kids a shot at getting into the track that will enable them to pass AP courses in high school should they be allowed to take them. But, the math placement criteria is optional. Schools don't have to follow it. They are welcome to keep out any kids they feel like keeping out.
There is no accountability for placement. Now that we have EVAAS we can see that thousands of black males are high achieving and predicted to be successful in the top track. It is getting harder to say they are low achieving and need remedial programs now that this data is so easy to get. But, we are still saying it.
This is all over the district and not a magnet problem. These two issues should be separated.
I don't know what happened to the kid from Enloe who posted about his courses being mostly White. But, no one wants to hear this. The official word is all is well. The SWD academically at risk kids are fine. Quit looking at the data. Everything is fine.
With the Effectiveness Index gone, its going to be harder for them to mask what this system does to low income and minority students. As they were destroyed, it would be used to adjust their outcomes for the low expectations the district has for them.
They could act like they were trying to raise achievement and close gaps as long as everyone believed it was not possible. They could get credit for trying. It is getting harder.
I agree that this should be kept separate from the questions about magnets or assignment.
'It is a separate question
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 10:58 — loriac'It is a separate question to ask if funds being spent at magnets to attract non-ED students to a school that would otherwise likely be racially and economically segregated are warranted. To continue to criticize and argue for changes to magnet schools on the basis of underachieving ED students when it is true of all schools is shortsighted and counterproductive to really helping the ED population truly achieve. '
The point is that we are spending a lot of money on magnets, and if the only thing they are accomplishing is enticing some non-ED kids to attend school downtown - that's easy... We've already heard from the Enloe Pirates that they only attend Enloe for the diversity, so why spend the extra money? The BOE can bus students anywhere they want, so why spend extra money enticing them to come there?
The ED students are underachieving at the worst rates in magnet schools than anywhere else. All of this together is what causes me to question the purpose of magnets.
Short sighted
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:02 — Dove314What is your goal? If the highest priority is to help improve the achievement of ED and minorities as a whole, then first focus on that problem and develop a robust and complete approach. Figure out if the problem is institutionalized attitudes. Figure out if it is a lack of resources. If the goal is truly to help ED achievement and close the achievement gap then don't single out and focus on cutting funding to one program that was, according to klanders, never designed to close the achievement gap.
If the real goal is a review of the magnet program as a higher priority than or equal priority to ED and minority achievement then equally, be comprehensive and do a thorough review of both what is and isn't working regarding the magnet programs and come up with a proper plan about how to maximize the benefits and minimize the negatives for the magnet program with all options on the table from scrapping the whole program to minimal tweaks.
Which task would you tell the BoE to give a higher priority?
One drives the other
Sun, 02/06/2011 - 14:29 — nmoskalSome reports I've read would say that lack of resources is due to institutionalized attitudes. In other words, if (a) society values closing the achievement gap and believes it can be accomplished, then it will create/find/allocate the resources to do it. If (b) it doesn't value closing the gap or doesn't believe it can be accomplished, it won't.
We don't have achievement gaps because they CAN'T be closed, we have them because the WILL to close them hasn't been there. Places where the WILL exists, the gaps are smaller, closing or have closed. The WILL, or lack thereof, stems from attitudes.
new talking point?
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:30 — loriacI believe they should be focusing on achievement of all students. A review of the magnet program is necessary and long overdue, as far as how it fits into any framework of overall student achievement. The ED task force I think is already in place, and looking at achievement for ED kids.
So now the talking point is that reviewing magnets is lower priority than all the other issues - just leave them alone? That's a new one.
WTH?
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 13:21 — Dove314I'm asking you what your priorities are. Have said before and will say again, I agree the magnet program should be reviewed. My suggestion is a thoughtful and unbiased review (in any direction) that doesn't assume in advance that it should be gutted and the funding spread around the system. That should be one of the options but not a foregone conclusion. Nor should it assume the program is wonderful "as is" either.
If you're asking me the same question I asked you, then I would have to say that I do personally prioritize having a plan for improving student achievement with a particular focus on the ED and minorities as the single highest priority for WCPSS. And yes, that means ahead of assignment and ahead of magnet programs. I think I've been pretty consistent on stating that for over a year now. As a result, for me, gutting the magnet program doesn't address the issue of ED and minority underachievement at all.
All too often this blog treats issues as campaign slogans instead of really discussing that (a) no issue has a single cause; (b) there is not unlimited budget; (c) there is not unlimited human resource; and (d) no side has anything completely right or wrong as real robust full truth is a much bigger challenge. Most important of all -- these are children being impacted by the system's priorities and actions. Priorities have to be established and the majority of them will involve sacrifices by many. We should all be up for sacrificing our campaign slogans to get the real and comprehensive roots of the problems impacting children.
I don't think it's one or
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 14:30 — loriacI don't think it's one or the other. Academic achievement should be the highest priority. We also have a huge budget hole, and all spending should be scrutinized - that includes magnets. You may call it gutting the magnet program, but I call it making sure all the kids in Wake County have equal shot at advanced classes next year when the budget cuts hit.
Must ask
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 15:21 — Dove314Do you want a review of the magnet programs (conclusions not made up front but a proper thorough review) or do you just want them gone and the funding redistributed without any review of the program?
...
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 07:52 — SideburnsThat's a very telling -- but very expected -- reaction from you.
So...
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 01:50 — Bob_SconcePossible that he's excluding PE. But, the statement "the only time I see black students is in the gym" is probably even worse.
Enloe used to be one school
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 15:12 — snordoneI went to Enloe in the mid-80's as a magnet student and it was not 2 schools then, it was one. My friends lived on Glascock and in Brentwood, and I lived in N Raleigh. We were in different classes at times because I was there to take extra science classes, but we did everything else together. I don't understand why things have changed so much, but it is incredibly sad for those magnet students. They are not learning that difference is good and that money does not define a person's worth. They are learning that they are "better," "smarter" and "worth more" than others. I learned just the opposite - that we are all the same.
When the Enloe students were protesting a few months ago I would have given anything for just one of them to ask the board of ed why there were no minority students or low income students in their AP calculus class. Jay Zhang sees this - why don't the others?
You should know better
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 22:17 — Solon77I don't understand why things have changed so much, but it is incredibly sad for those magnet students. They are not learning that difference is good and that money does not define a person's worth. They are learning that they are "better," "smarter" and "worth more" than others. I learned just the opposite - that we are all the same.
Where do you come up with this ? Because of a few over the top students and this is representative of the 2,000 students that attend the school ? I know many times the number of students that protested and they are respectful kids from modest homes and I can assure you they do not define a person's worth by material wealth.
I saw that too and was
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 12:56 — jenmanI saw that too and was impressed that he had the guts to put himself out there with an unpopular opinion.
No Surpise
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 13:42 — Solon77This is really no surprise, in fact the comments can be applied to pretty much any high school. In HS students are placed in classes based on their ability. In addiiton to separation by academic ability there is separation by other interests - band kids tend to stick together, certain athletic teams, dance, drama, clubs, ect. Closer to the point is the letter by Ms Davis. Without the magnet parents there would be little parental support - PTA, Boosters, Tutoring, ect. This is the flaw in JT's logic. The base students parents do not participate and provide support to their neighborhood school as it is. - what makes anyone think that pulling back the few kids that are bussed out will make any meaningful difference ? Lack of public funding has resulted in schools having to rely on PTAs, parents and other organizations to fund basic needs. Heck when I went to school I was responsible for pencils and book covers. Look at the list teachers post today. My son goes to Enloe and we have to buy all of his Literature books. BTW - somehow at Leesville the school takes care of it - kids just march to the library to pick up the books with plenty to go around. Unless Mr. Zhang is offering a comparison to other schools, his comments are well - So what ?
In HS students are placed in
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 00:01 — klanders65In HS students are placed in classes based on their ability.
Try to understand this. Take this slow. KIDS ARE NOT PLACED IN CLASSES BASED ON THEIR ABILITY. Non-ED White kids are placed in classes based on their ability.
This is the math placement issue. The last of many many attempts of E&R to report on math placement said that about 35% of Students With Disabilities (SWD) who meet the district's criteria for top middle school math placement are currently placed in the top track. This is after they lost thousands of kids in their data analyses, so many it is fewer.
Who is SWD? The black males disproportionately get this label. Then, even when qualified for advanced courses, they don't get in. Now, they are labeled SWD, and systematically kept out of advanced courses when they are qualified.
And we try to make this better by inviting non-ED kids into their schools to take wonderful courses, so their PTAs will have more money. I agree that is important. I wouldn't say their parents don't support the schools, as if they don't care about their kids. Its no wonder they don't hate the schools.
We need a better way to educate kids. Labeling the black males SWD, then keeping them out of advanced courses no matter how academically successful they are just isn't working. And having totally subjective suspension policies, where these SWD low track boys who we call "at risk" no matter what, are often viewed as trouble makers when they wear their hat crooked.
This just isn't working for our black males. I wonder if we could think of a better way. Any ideas? I am sure we mean well with the current system. And the fact that non-ED white students benefit tremendously from this system is just a coincidence. They are trying to help these black males by sacrificing ...something. I am not sure what. They love these students. They love being in the building with them. Like one of the Enloe students said at a BOE meeting, it is like they are doing their Peace Corps duty before college instead of after.
equal opportunity education
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:34 — annerussellNo public school in the county should have more resources than any other school, and "volunteer" resources (parents, other entities) should be dispersed among all schools. If this is not done, then there is no "equal" education. I strongly support "neighborhood schools" because these are best for the children and parents, minority and majority, rich and poor, and busing students far from home in order to achieve the "illusion of inclusion" is not a good idea. If all schools adhere to the purpose of public schools in our democratic society, by offering equal opportunity education to all students, "busing for diversity" would not be an issue.
You aren't going to get
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:17 — Andrew95You aren't going to get those resources in a school deep in a poor neighborhood without making sure there are parents from higher income families involved. Whatever the reasons, those schools simply don't get those same resources. If you try to allocate more money to these under-supported schools, you get an uproar from the out-of-city schools because they now have less funding. It's not that these schools just decide not to offer better educations; it's almost impossible for them to provide it, given their situation.
I don't like neighborhood schools because, no matter what you've heard, the people that push this idea want their schools to have less poor kids, because that leads to higher graduation rates and less behavioral disturbances. A right wing writer even admitted "It may cause some de-facto segregation in the schools closer to poor neighborhoods, but it's not the school system's responsibility to fix people's housing situations."
Andrew- How do you know PSTA's give so much?
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:33 — Voice_of_Reason_Does anyone have proof to the claim of large sums of money from PSTA's going to tradition schools and not to Title I schools? I bet if one looks into that claim is probably true to a much smaller extent than is claimed. Also what is that money used for? Does it go to education? I also bet that Magnet schools get a lot more than traditional. I think Mr. Hui should investigate. This is a common tactic, make a plausible claim and keep repeating it until it is accepted as truth.
I don't like neighborhood
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:48 — jenmanI don't like neighborhood schools because, no matter what you've heard, the people that push this idea want their schools to have less poor kids, because that leads to higher graduation rates and less behavioral disturbances. A right wing writer even admitted "It may cause some de-facto segregation in the schools closer to poor neighborhoods, but it's not the school system's responsibility to fix people's housing situations."
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Actually Andrew, no matter what you've heard, you're wrong. Yes, there are some people who want to get rid of poor kids from their schools (and some of those people are even located at ITB magnet schools, just like they are found everywhere else in the county). But those people are not the majority.
For the record, I've never been an advocate of strict proximity neighborhood schools. But our 'diversity policy' wasn't working either.
??
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:26 — loriac'You aren't going to get those resources in a school deep in a poor neighborhood without making sure there are parents from higher income families involved'
What are you proposing - assigning 'high income' nodes to a poor school to force parents to volunteer there? Oh - the previous board did that. Because of that, and other shenanigans with other nodes at the school, most of the people pulled their kids out to private or homeschool.
Magnet schools - looks great on the surface , offer a carrot and high income folks will flock to the low income school. The result? The high income kids are in classes with each other (and enjoy the best WCPSS has to offer), and the low income kids have the worst performance of any schools in WCPSS.
How about we stop moving kids around the county and focus on education. Instead of telling kids they are bad because they are from an ED node and can't possibly go to school together because they will FAIL, how about we just treat them like students ready to learn. I
Looks Great on the Surface
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 22:21 — Solon77Magnet schools - looks great on the surface , offer a carrot and high income folks will flock to the low income school. The result? The high income kids are in classes with each other (and enjoy the best WCPSS has to offer)
And what about the base schools. A good friend is at Leesville. Leesvile is 27% AA and yet in the two years and 8 honors classes the demographics of the classes is not even close to 27% AA. So does Leesville have two schools ?
IIRC you are in favor of admittance to magnet schools based on test scores/achievement level - using this criteria as admission what kind of magnet school do you think this would create ? A school within a school ?
Not quite
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 23:23 — loriacI think that magnets should have entrance requirements, or a truly open lottery. I also said we already have a school of science and math, do we need another? I think a performing arts magnet might make sense, or no magnets at all. I think the whole program needs a review. Right now it's an unfair allocation of resources, and Im not sure what magnets are accomplishing.
Sorry, but after watching the parade of Enloe students talk endlessly about diversity being the only reason they are at the school - it's interesting they never noticed the ED kids weren't actually in their classes and had the worst performance at magnets compared to other schools in Wake County.
how about a BOE discussion?
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:42 — stepbystepI agree there needs to be a review of magnets and how they relate to student assignment. Laura Evans has requested it. Such a comprehensive discussion was scheduled for tomorrow and then canceled today. I hope Mr. Tata insists on a comprehensive discussion and doesn't tolerate the childishness of BOE members who don't want work together.
Didn't address the issue
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 23:36 — Solon77You still have not addressed how to avoid the school within the school.
I Don't know, but it's not
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 23:39 — loriacI Don't know, but it's not magnet schools.
And your base school
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:01 — Solon77Leesville - correct ? Figure it out in your own neighborhood school before you throw stones at others.
My schools are not taking
Fri, 02/04/2011 - 07:50 — loriacMy schools are not taking resources from others in the county, as magnets do, all in the name of promoting diversity. When we see that only half of the ED kids who actually do get to go to the magnet pass EOGs, or that few are in the magnet classes, something is very wrong. I'm questioning magnets, of which Enloe is one, and which we've heard lots about thanks to the Enloe Pirates. You can thank them for the extra attention.