Minority participation in Algebra I and the development of an equity/equality policy are on the agenda for today's Wake County school board economically disadvantaged students committee meeting.
A majority of the meeting is scheduled for discussing developing a policy on equity and equality in schools. This comes after the December discussion on Fund 6 accounts for schools.
The board will then get an update on the participation rates in Algebra I and pre-algebra in middle school. Questions were raised in October about the accuracy of the data and whether gains were overstated for minority enrollment under the new EVAAS-based placement guidelines.
After the math questions were raised, some of the members of the ED task force met with staff to review how E&R compiled the data. Today could provide more clarity on the issue.
The meeting is scheduled to run from 4:30 p.m. to 6 p.m. at Timber Drive Elementary School, 1601 Timber Drive in Garner.
UPDATE
The math numbers weren't finalized yet so the whole meeting was spent on reviewing a draft equity/equality policy. I'm honestly still recovering from this bug so I'll wait until Friday to do a recap.
Comments
So...
Sat, 01/08/2011 - 10:19 — Bob_SconceYou're right on the average -- the state gives more for special education kids, for example. It also gives more for AG kids. However the "normal" kids are the large majority. I did look at the numbers a couple of years back, and seem to recall that difference is on the order of $1K, not $6K. If you think about it, a classroom of 25 students needs a teacher (~$50K + benefits -> ~$60K), class supplies, heating, A/C, janitorial services, support services, etc.... And that doesn't include bond service, which isn't included in that per-student cost (But which is included in the costs at some of the other schools listed by user1-5 below.)
The Federal Government contributes only tiny fraction of WCPSS school revenue, the enormous share of it is state and local (last year, federal revenue was $150M, but that included stimulus cash, which disappears next year. Most of what they give is directed into, e.g, the school lunch program, magnet grants and JROTC). In any case, you should only look at the portion of different taxes that go to schools -- you can't just say "Well, I paid $3000 in federal income tax, $3000 in Social Security, $3000 in state income tax, $3000 in property tax and $2000 in sales tax. I'm more than paying for my kid's education." After all, that $14K also goes to, among other things, building libraries, roads and missiles and paying old people.
Bob, you keep jumping
Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:39 — wireless200Bob, you keep jumping around. First I posted only reference to state and local taxes and you threw out the $8k number that includes federal assistance. When I argue the point you say well that not all federal pays for. This is true but you should remain consistent in your rebuttals without us needed to go down a road where every number has to be broken down in great detail.
It's my understanding that the majority of property taxes go to pay for schools. I don't know the percentage. You can correct me on that. But because you say state and local pay most of the way for schools we'll go that route. If you count greater than 7% of AGI state taxes as well as 0.6x % for local wake county property taxes, then many parents are paying for their kid's education and more. This is my point of contention with the OP.
And my second point is those that are paying their way don't necessarily consider the cost of a private school a good value proposition even though Wake schools fall down in areas such as helping advanced students. If there were vouchers to prevent paying twice for education of each child in a private school, that'd be a different story...
So...
Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:49 — Bob_SconceMy point is that if you look at a typical family's taxes, the portion of those taxes that goes to education is significantly less than the cost of the education for that family's children. Of course, that only applies to families with kids in school, and it doesn't apply to every family. Heck, for many families, their total taxes don't cover those costs -- for a family of 2, for example, you need around $17K.
IIRC, about 1/3 of Wake County's revenue, which comes from sales and property taxes, goes into the schools. Also, recall that 7+% of AGI is far too high an estimate for sales tax -- your mortgage and utilities, among other things, are sales-tax free.
The 7%+ of AGI refers to
Sun, 01/09/2011 - 11:26 — wireless200The 7%+ of AGI refers to state income tax. I intentionally left sales tax out. As previously stated many of the parents paying taxes are the parents of kids who's return isn't commensurate with the amount they're paying and neither feel it financially viable nor fair to pay private tuition. Only $17k, LOL! I'm sure many taxpayers would like to pay so little.
Yes, average is one thing,
Fri, 01/07/2011 - 21:50 — user12345Yes, average is one thing, but the cost per student type is another. For example I've seen it broken out in Wake by special education, and disability and if IIRC an average student (doesn't fall into the aforementioned categories) is much lower than $8k per student.
The "average thing" is interesting ... here is a hypothetical example ... assume it costs $3000 to educate smart affluent kids who take little supervision and are self learning, $5000 to educate regular kids and $17,000 to educate special ed kids who have a TA and various behavior specialists. So, the "average" is $8280 but the high and middle kids could not leave with that money since they don't cost the average. Many folks have the pipe dream of getting $8000 average, spending $5000 on Thales and pocketing the remaining $3000.
High
34%
$3,000
$1,020
Middle
33%
$5,000
$1,650
Low
33%
$17,000
$5,610
$8,280
A few years back I collected the average cost per pupil to see how Wake compare.
System
local
state
federal
total
US Avg SpecEd
22564
Arlington, VA
16217
2618
723
19538
CaryAcademy
18750
Ravenscroft
15400
New York
14119
New Jersey
13800
Fairfax, VA
9765
2852
723
13340
WashingtonDC
12979
Minneapolis
11692
Gwinnett, GA
11650
Chapel Hill
4906
5195
477
10578
Halifax
1090
7295
1523
9908
Orange
3679
5598
519
9796
Chatham
3399
5557
812
9768
Durham
3176
5619
904
9699
New Hanover
3268
5368
822
9458
Guilford
2821
5306
883
9010
DallasISD
8852
US Avg
8701
Charlotte
2592
5238
765
8595
North Carolina
2075
5616
830
8521
Austin ISD
8235
Franklin
1600
5636
901
8137
Wake
2440
5180
497
8117
Granville
1611
5674
676
7961
Harnett
1450
5622
831
7903
Johnston
1785
5481
634
7900
Mississippi
6575
Idaho
6283
Arizona
6261
Utah
5257
Thales, Apex
5000
Equality, Equity, and Effectiveness
Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:40 — nriemannI posted about this Task Force discussion at
wakereassignment.info
Unless I overlooked it you might want to update your post
Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:34 — nmoskalIt looks like the most recent post is about what you thought the Jan 6th meeting would be about rather than what it was about.
Nicely done
Thu, 01/06/2011 - 20:54 — user12345The latter question is a dozy. In Shila’s comments to the blog post mentioned above, for example, she advocates for “needs based” funding. She suggests that undefined and unqualified additional resources should accompany schools with higher poverty. While many would agree that high poverty schools need more per-pupil funding, they might not agree with the diversion of their particular resources to fund high poverty schools elsewhere. They are even more likely to revolt when they hear how much they will lose
Thank you for such a good post. I agree that the biggest question here is what is fair. Rich folks pay lots of taxes and think they deserve their money's worth ... poor folks who don't finish HS are a burden on future generations ... so, do you fund Richie Rich who is going to create the next Google or George to keep him out of prison ($60k/yr)? Until the community answers what is fair we will have a hard time interpreting the data ....
Here is my attempt at fairness ...
In Table 3, by contrast, schools at each level are ranked against an “ideal” allotment that allots each child receiving a free or reduced lunch twice the resources of one who is not, so that a school with 100% poor children would receive twice the funding of a school with none. It then shows in the PPD Variance column who gets too much and who gets too little when compared to the agreed upon formulation.
I love your table 3 ... lot of surprises ... of course really poor schools like Barwell need more resources but so does wealthy Davis Drive ..not that your formula is the right one but it gives us a tangible way to make decisions ...once the priorities are established, the formula agreed to, the rest is math ...Only by being transparent can we instill confidence back in to the school system.
interesting points
Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:38 — stepbystepNriemann, thank you for raising important issues related to equity and funding. I hope the Task Force will confront the hard questions first, as you suggest, before the BOE starts moving money randomly without clear purpose. I like the way you raise issues that get beyond black-and-white "campaign-like" soundbites that John Tedesco seems to favor over thorough discussion. I bet the staff on the ground also have a lot of useful input that should be sought out. How do JT's theories and declarations play out in real life, for example? Issues of Equity and Effectiveness are enormously complicated, as you've pointed, out and deserve careful planning by those who understand the implications. And, yes, student assignment is also a big part of the discussion, especially with our puny per pupil spending in Wake County.