There seems to be a disconnect when both sides of the Wake County school diversity fight talk about controlled choice.
As noted in today's article, supporters of the old diversity policy talk about controlled choice as a vehicle for balancing school enrollments. But members of the new school board majority are viewing controlled choice as a way to provide parental choice and stability while dealing with growth.
Using a controlled choice model to balance individual school enrollments is not something that the board majority is talking about. They say they'll draw up zones that recognize the "natural diversity" of the county, but that's about as far as they'll go.
"People shouldn't read things to mean we're putting students in schools because of their socioeconomic status," said school board chairman Ron Margiotta. "That's a thing of the past."
Margiotta said the focus of the board will be on helping individual schools succeed. He said they're not intending to creating high-poverty schools. But he said they're also "not social engineers" trying to mandate poverty levels at individual schools.
"It's not for the school board to determine how many low-income students should be at a school, but to determine where children need to go to school and to address any problems that may come up at the schools," Margiotta said.
But for someone like education consultant Michael Alves, you have to both draw up the zones and assign students under controlled choice to promote diversity.
"In the end, what's important is to look at the children who reside in that zone to make sure that they are not one race or one economic level," Alves said.
This tension about the role of diversity, or lack of it, in assigning students under controlled choice will likely be a dividing point as the board moves forward.
Comments
#1- I assume most people who
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 11:57 — shearertw#1- I assume most people who are low income have no business trying buy a home.
#2 - That's a ridiculous example. We will work with whatever school our children attend, but in general, those reassignment issues have hurt the ability of schools to have strong PTA programs because everyone is not like me.
#3 - Any effort to unequally distributed the public resources is absolutely an infringement on my rights. What is your justification for unequal distribution of public resources?
You have no specific evidence at all for your last comment so no response is needed.
.
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 12:18 — danofncHow about give me the cliff
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 11:29 — shearertwduplicate, sorry
writing on the wall?
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 10:38 — red_balloonIf we are going in for zones, it appears the pro-busing group wants controlled choice to result in replication of county level social engineering at the zone level. Essentially, with this approach, each zone would become an abridged version of the current WCPSS 'diversity' model with SES balancing done at the zone level. Unless the controlled choice model invokes an assignment algorithm that factors in F&R, or its equivalent, there is no way SES balancing will occur within the zones. In other words, the BOE's "intent" will not be reflected in the assignment algorithm. Thus, if you are for engineering SES balances in schools, you got serious cause for worry.
For reasons known and/ or unknown, it doesn't appear the majority on the BOE will allow for SES engineering in schools. And I cannot see a middle ground between anti and pro SES engineering approaches when it comes to balancing schools by SES. Further, with many (most?) school districts not following SES engineering models, I cannot see how a legal challenge for the zone model will gain traction in the courts.
At this point, with SES engineering defunct in WCPSS, the most realistic approach would be to assume that the "intent" will be honored but, at schools running contrary to the "intent", the BOE needs to define what special assistance will be rendered to such schools.
This is like watching
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 10:22 — gregishereThis like watching midget christians try to scale the coliseum's walls before the lions snap off a piece of their hindparts. Scared out their wits because a rather large black man and a lot of scruffy liberals dare to confront them with a mirror within which each of the idiotic five's reflections scream back, "um, you a racist, sugar," the I-5 desperately want out of the racist box; um, I mean, it hurts their feelings to hear the truth. And, nanny, nanny boo boo, the NAACP are more racist, so there, I'm rubber you're glue; man this stuff makes my average brain ache. Come on, man up. You guys want your lilly whites to stop getting mixed with the coloreds. Just say it, vote for white schools and black and go on. Just quit lying about how you want to destroy the village to save it. We reality dwellers will catch you on the flip side, where all you dreams are shattered into confetti by the one leveler -- THE COMING DEMOGRAPHIC EQUALIZER.
LOL You may want to check
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 07:21 — woodstockLOL You may want to check your dosage.
Intentions
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 09:25 — virginiadareFrom NC Policy Watch:
There will be no high poverty schools because we won’t bother to measure poverty
Posted at 1:51 PM by Christopher Hill
It’s hard to weigh anything without a scale. It’s difficult to tell how long anything is without a ruler. It’s certainly impossible to avoid creating high poverty schools without a way to determine wealth or the lack of it. Although, it appears that John Tedesco, Wake County School Board Member, will try to do just that.
After Dr. Michael Alves presented to the Wake Board of Education Student Assignment Committee about the concept of “controlled choice”, Mr. Tedesco made his own presentation in what was described in the agenda as “Review various geographic assignment area possibilities.” The committee saw many maps created by Wake County Public School System staff illustrating the geography of the county.
During his presentation, Tedesco said that he does not want to use the number of students who receive free or reduced lunch as a measure of poverty in the county. When he was met with the words of Board Chair Ron Margiotta that there was no intention on creating low poverty schools, Mr. Tedesco agreed. However, when asked how this would be done without using students who receive free or reduced lunch as a measurement of poverty, Mr. Tedesco used either a vague answer, danced as fast as he could to not answer or completely tried to shut down discussion by saying that the issue was not on the agenda.
If Tedesco wanted to answer truthfully, he could have said that the number of students on free or reduced lunch is not an accurate way to gauge poverty because it is underreported (although, this year, Wake County just saw the highest ever percentage of students receiving free or reduced lunch).
While Mr. Tedesco could not answer the question about the measure of poverty, if he watched the presentation by Dr. Alves he would have heard the words “fair and just” several times. If he read anything about controlled choice, he would have learned that diversity based on socio-economic status is a major part of the system. Controlled choice is, in large measure, precisely about promoting diversity as a way to achieve school excellence.
While more needs to be studied about the program to see if it is right for Wake County, John Tedesco needs to know that a real plan has to exist. The only way to develop a real plan that does not create high poverty schools is to have a true method for measuring poverty.
Christopher Hill is with the
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 12:11 — xmarkspot62Christopher Hill is with the NC Justice Center, not NC Policy Watch
Yes, but I copied and pasted
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 17:53 — virginiadareYes, but I copied and pasted the post from the NC Policy Watch blog.
I'm not thrilled with this
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 08:33 — CaryCurmudgeonI'm not thrilled with this approach, and the pro-busers aren't either. Perhaps if we can all set aside our visions of perfection, the controlled-choice model can form the beginnings of the middle ground that has eluded us for so long.
More social engineering
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 08:19 — loriac"In the end, what's important is to look at the children who reside in that zone to make sure that they are not one race or one economic level," Alves said.
Why??? Here we go again. Who determines the proper mixing? What are the magic percentages and who determines these? This is no more than social engineering, which should not be the focus. I'm glad to see Mr. Margiotta does not agree, and the focus should be education and addressing the needs of the kids, not shuffling them around.
so we'll just add Michael
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 12:13 — xmarkspot62so we'll just add Michael Alves to the long and growing list of education experts that this BOE majority will ignore, at the expense of Wake County children, because they "know" quality education is all about keeping the parents happy ~ what a circus!
Not social engineering
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 08:43 — magnetParentIf these are schools of CHOICE then how are the kinds being shuffled around? They are addressing the needs of the kids by giving them an opportunity to attend the school that they choose, and more importantly, to not attend a high poverty school. How is that social engineering? They are not being forced. No one is being forced. But if they are in an attendance zone that has only high poverty schools, then you are social engineering (hidden under the guise of parental convenience).
Mr. Margiotta better start listening to these experts. Michael Alves has done this controlled choice concept for quite a long time, has a degree and expertise in the area, and knows what works and what will fail. He said himself - you only get one opportunity to do it right. If you don't you lose the trust of the families and you will not be able to recover. The board majority needs to get over their hurt feelings and egos and start making educated decisions.
Alves' plan worries me
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 10:51 — jenmanAlves' plan worries me because including SES as a factor has the potential to do exactly what we're doing now--offering the illusion of choice. I worry that we will end up with people getting denied their choice because they aren't the right SES status.
Some of my worry may be negated if academic opportunities are spread around more than they are now. And that does appear to be what Alves recommends. Although Alves says that a school that is unpopular should be given a special program (akin to a magnet) to boost enrollment, I don't want to see us slide back to where other schools are prohibited from offering extras so that those other schools are more attractive.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just pointing out issues that concern me. I think that Mudge is correct that since both sides are not thrilled with this plan, it might actually be the right place to start.
There are two parts to
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 13:31 — magnetParentThere are two parts to this. 1. Adding SES as a factor when drawing the zone lines and 2. Adding SES as a factor when accepting students. Tedesco wants nothing to do with either one. I think at a minimum, they need to do #1.
The zones need to be set up as a level playing field. Otherwise, offering a choice is an illusion to those living in high poverty zones. (Also, the zones need to be bigger than 3 or 4 schools. I really see NO choice in the proposed solution for many zones - nothing to do with SES. I think the "Planning Regions" map offers the best solution - there are more choices, less potential reassignment from current schools, and more opportunity to start the zones on a level playing field ).
People will get denied choices. There are only so many openings and many other factors that could affect that. That is why they have families list a number of choices. Unfortunately, people will self-analyze why they did not get their first choice and make assumptions that it was due to unfair practices. (regardless of if SES is a factor or not).
...
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 14:11 — Sideburns"Unfortunately, people will self-analyze why they did not get their first choice and make assumptions that it was due to unfair practices."
Sorta like the old magnet "lottery". Wink, wink.
The answer to that is to
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 15:18 — user12345The answer is to produce a report like they do when turned down for a mortgage that shows the factors and explains how the computer kicked you to the curb.
....
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 16:06 — SideburnsI think the stock answer in the past would have been: "You're too poor to have a magnet seat."
You know, if you would let
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 16:54 — magnetParentYou know, if you would let go of your magnet hate/envy and discuss the topic at hand you might provide some constructive conversation.
even the supdt. says it is money
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 21:24 — red_balloon"Ask Anything: 10 questions with Wake's Superintendent"
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2941813/
Priority for placement in a magnet school is not influenced by who you know, but it is influenced by where you live.
It is not about magnet hate
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 19:52 — woodstockIt is not about magnet hate or envy, it is about justifying the unfairness and expense of them. Enloe is the poster school for just how un-level the playing field was under status quo "leadership." I'd actually like the thank the parents and students of that school for doing such as good job of raising the awareness of their elite/privileged status ...now we can work on spreading the wealth around.
Question
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 10:04 — NWRaleighMomI totally agree with you... Now, is anything going to be done to level the playing field for our children?
...
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 18:20 — SideburnsJust pointing out how well "controlled choice" has worked for some. You fared well though, didn't you?
I take it back... I don't
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 19:16 — magnetParentI take it back... I don't think you are capable of providing constructive conversation.
never mind.
To anser sideburns: So did so many of us
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 21:33 — duvalwho did not choose the magnet route. It was because the school system worked really hard to level the playing field for all students that we were very happy with our assigned school.
We felt that anywhere we moved our kids would be fine.
Now, not so much.
I am keeping an eye on events as they continuously evolve and am crossing my fingers and toes that we are not heading in the direction that will cause further divisions in our community as a whole.
So...
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 22:03 — Bob_SconceI suggest you back and read Jeffrey1's repost of Keung's circa-2000 article about how non-magnet schools are prohibited from doing things (like offering elementary school electives) our of fear that they'll make magnets less attractive. That's right -- the district, as a matter of course, has deliberately held back non-magnet schools.
OK
Thu, 07/29/2010 - 22:40 — Solon77Y'all make it sound like the evil wcpss administration were the only people in the world that did this. It was and still is common practice across many districts in the country. The controlled choice model that Alves advocates is very open about this. Wcpss did not deny the basic education right that all deserve. The same basic education that you would get by paying $6k per year to go to Thales. In 2000 there was not enough interest to fill the magnet seats. Today there is a waiting list - a good thing. However, efforts need to be made to accommodate the increased interest. Bob, I believe you commented at one time that it is better use of resources to concentrate ESL students in one place to get full utilization of teaching specialists vs having one person spread around multiple schools. Wouldn't that same logic apply here when it comes to electives ?
A good thing? You can't be
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 09:36 — red_balloonA good thing? You can't be serious! The waiting list is indicative of the widening chasm between the offerings at a magnet school versus the perfunctory education at a non-magnet. Caroline Massengill's insidious strategy is paying off at the expense of the non-magnet children being denied a better quality education.
No...
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 06:11 — Bob_SconceIt's not the same thing. For one, the scale is different -- it's inefficient to have an ESL teacher teach handful of ESL students at one school and then drive to a different school. I would think that an elementary school elective, for example, would use an instructor who stays in that school full-time. Secondly, ESL is a distinct course of study -- "Elective" isn't.
I can't speak to how much other district do this, but I can tell you that it doesn't happen in all districts with magnet populations -- it's possible to give the magnet schools more resources without simultaneously telling non-magnets what they're not allowed to do with their more limited resources.
You know, it's funny -- all the talk is about wanting to improve student scores, but the message to non-magnets is "we want you to be good, but not *too good* because that will make the magnets look bad." If the magnets, with all their extra resources, can't lure students away from a base school, then the solution is to fix the magnet, not to handicap the base school. (And, by 'fix', I don't mean "pour even more money into.")
Wow !
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 20:57 — Solon77Wow - I really under estimated the sensitivity of this topic. I do have to admit that my experience is in today's environment and not from 10 years ago. Our kids went to the base elementary school and I must admit I and my neighbors did not feel we were being short changed on education. While the magnet elementary school electives of gymnastics, theater games, ballet, and photography were interesting it was not so important my kids basic education of reading, writing and math. So if the district is able to induce some parents to go to a high poverty under enrolled school to avoid having to put more $ into bricks and mortar, then good for those parents who decide to go. So I disagree with the argument that my kids are being denied decent education opportunities, in fact we were very happy with the education at Leadmine.
You know, it's funny -- all the talk is about wanting to improve student scores, but the message to non-magnets is "we want you to be good, but not *too good* because that will make the magnets look bad."
I am sorry, I just do not get this. Again through my experience we were very pleased with Leadmine. Frankly we did not see how gymnastics or photography in elementary school would enhance academic success. My colleague who pays $6k per year for his kid to go to Thales does not believe he is being short changed by the lack of electives.
As far as the Middle and High Schools, I freely admit we are taking advantage of magnet middle and high schools. The middle school to get to the high school. The high school for the academic rigor. One daughter just graduated Enloe and in her 4 years she did not take a class that was not offered at say Leesville. We have had the opportunity to compare like for like classes. The rigor at Enloe is much higher than Leesville. I cannot explain the reason for the difference, only to observe that in history, english, math and biology - more is covered. I guess this explains the loads of homework every night.
Other differences that jeffery1 notes - class size, technology....ect. , I have not noted any advantages over base schools - class sizes are similar across the district. From a technology/facilities point of view - there is no comparison to the newer suburban schools. Start times - at Ligon and Enloe we catch the bus at 6:25 and classes start at 7:20ish. Glad we got the preferred start times. Our base school - W Millbrook -8:15 and Millbrook HS - 7:25. Experienced Bus drivers - Last year we had a great driver (new) and only had to drive twice. Prior years we would drive an average of 20 times , good thing we had the best. Security - I have to give you that one. I doubt anyone Wakefield way would know what a lock down is.
Having experienced both sides, aside from the academic rigor and higher expectations, there is very little meaningful difference.
This is my experience.
I agree with you for the
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:28 — jenmanI agree with you for the most part about elem school. The only magnet we ended up applying to for elem was Joyner because it was the only school to guarantee daily leveled instruction in the same foreign language for all 6 years of elem school. Knowing the importance of introducing a foreign language early on, I'm disappointed that only 1 elem school in WCPSS offers this. I'm also frustrated that no non-magnet elem school is allowed to offer a fl as anything more than a 'special'. We ended up leaving the magnet after 4 years for 2 reasons: they went from being a dual-immersion program to being 45 min a day and the distance and time commuting got to be too much for our family.
I would love for my kids to have the other elective opportunities in elem because I do think it enhances their education, but I didn't think it was crucial enough to endure the negatives of being in a magnet.
But to me there is no comparison between the opportunities available in middle school between our base and the magnet my son attends. Our base middle is pretty average when it comes to elective offerings, some are significantly worse. The offerings at our yr middle school are awful. Electives in middle school kept us from applying to charters. So while some people don't care too much about the electives (most of my neighbors don't) others do. I think that having those opportunities in middle (and elem) is important for a well-rounded education. I took a few courses in middle school that I would have never taken in high school because I either didn't have room for them being on the college prep track or because I was afraid I might not be good in them and it would hurt my GPA. Drama, for instance. I think it's important to have those experiences and am thrilled that my son is getting them at his magnet. I'm saddened that more kids aren't able to experience this--I really believe that they are missing out.
I know you said before that it isn't hard for a student to get into Ligon from a non-magnet elem. I hope you realize how lucky you are that your child got in. I know lots of AG kids from our base elem school who didn't.
"I took a few courses in
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 21:14 — danofnc"I took a few courses in middle school that I would have never taken in high school because I either didn't have room for them being on the college prep track or because I was afraid I might not be good in them and it would hurt my GPA. Drama, for instance."
Aren't you basically saying that there was plenty available, but you chose not to pursue it in high school? Should it be the school's responsibility to offer it sooner?
It seems like you're describing a scenario where you think kids should have some of the things that make them "well rounded", but they shouldn't have to take them when they could adversely affect their GPA or get in the way of taking an extra AP course.
I went to a play at Holly Springs HS this year. The play was directed by a student. I think she was in total control of the production from casting to set design to.....well, everything. To imply or suggest that a middle school drama class can be anything like a high school drama class is a little disingenuous.
I'm not saying that at
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 14:12 — jenmanI'm not saying that at all. When I was in HS I had no room left for any arts electives once I took all of my required college prep courses. I wanted to continue Orchestra in HS but couldn't do that and take a foreign language so Orchestra had to go. We didn't have AP courses at my high school. Perhaps students are able to fit more things in now than I was? I went to 2 different high schools and the one I graduated from was pretty lousy in terms of offerings and academic rigor.
I still think that middle school is a great time to start exploring things a student might like. I'm not saying that they shouldn't also take those things in HS, just that I'd like to see students able to take more in middle school as well.
Rigor
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 22:45 — NWRaleighMomWhy dumb it down
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 23:23 — Solon77agree. I know some Leesville kids who are in desperate need of more challenging courses. At the same time, not all Enloe magnet students can handle or need such rigor. The time is long overdue for objective entrance criteria.
It is not the course as much as the way it is taught. The difference has to do with the teacher and setting expectations - it has nothing to do with spending more $, special treatment or special programs. I do not know why there should be a difference in this regard between schools and I do not agree that there is such a thing as kids who do not need such rigor.
One difference has to do
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 08:53 — red_balloonOne difference has to do with the additional funding for magnets. When you are pumping in additional resources into a magnet, it is accompanied by additional expectations. Parents and students catch on. You are in a circle of increasing returns. Contrast that with the environment at a non-magnet: mediocre offerings and average expectations.
I do believe all kids do not benefit the same from academic rigor. As mentioned by NWRaleighMom, there is a need for objective admission criteria. Not everything in life is awarded via a winning lottery ticket. Hard work is critical and it is important to reinforce this trait by having a student earn a seat for enhanced offerings than to have won the same. What WCPSS excels at is just the opposite: instilling early on that luck triumphs hard work.
Funding
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 20:55 — Solon77One difference has to do with the additional funding for magnets.
Since you made this statement, I have to assume you have the $ at your finger tips. I am interested in knowing how much $ the school system is paying on an annual basis for the magnet goodies.
Thanks
from the guns of navarone...
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 21:29 — red_balloonExhibit A: http://wileyes.wcpss.net/electives.html
Exhibit B: Well, Exhibit B is missing. (to paraphrase Cpl. Miller).
As for the missing Exhibit B, I checked a couple of non-magnet ES websites. I couldn't find links for electives. So unless the magnet electives fund themselves, there is a cost differential between magnets and non-magnets.
I don't have numbers by cost center but on the WCPSS site there is a note about magnet operating costs being a little over 1% of the operating budget. On a per student basis, that works out to about $1500.
I liked that movie
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 23:03 — Solon77I like that movie. I would like to see it remade with today's special effects.
In the board discussion over Broughton, $180k was cited as the amount of on going costs after the grants run out, works out to $80 per student at Broughton.
One of the purposes of the magnet program is to fill under utilized capacity in the not so nice areas. If you take a look at the assignment maps put out this past week you will see the central area as under enrolled by an estimated 5,000 students. The options are:
1. leave the school under enrolled and build capacity in the burbs. The initial capital cost is around $25,000 per student + ongoing operating costs of utilities, maintenance, admin staff and a whole host of other fixed costs. Interest on the $25,000 at 2% is $500 per year + the other operating costs would easily be another $500 per year. That is $1,000 per year. compared to your $1,500 (which I believe is to high since we only allocate $5k per student for a full standing charter school) a net $500 per year savings could be realized with an investment of $25,000 or a payback of 50 years ! This is why we use capacity of our schools.
2. Could do a mandatory assignment. Well, I don't need to tell you how well that would go over.
3. Could implement a magnet program and save millions of $ per year in facility utilization.
As a mfg operations person I see the value and savings we realize by fully utilizing our facilities.
Please note I did not even get into the added cost to the district and shifting of resources once high poverty schools are created.
If your animosity towards magnets is purely from a financial perspective then you are not considering the whole picture and the magnet program is cost effective. If on the other hand your animosity is over the selection process - then a different issue.
Someone posted an entry
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 23:24 — red_balloonSomeone posted an entry about costs incurred in new construction vs. renovations. It might have been Apexter. You can review the data below.
http://www.wcpss.net/facilities/ProjectDirectory.html
The example below illustrates the tenuous basis for arguing that magnets are about using under utilized capacity.
Alston Ridge: $26 m (new school)
Smith Magnet: $22 m (renovated school)
BTW, I arrived at ~$1500 per magnet student based on allocating ~1% of the operating budget across ~10,000 magnet applicant students.
Missed the point
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 07:44 — Solon77Utilizing capacity is not the difference between a new school and refurbing an old school.
Enrollment Capacity Diff
Zone1 15000 10000 -5000
Zone 2 10000 15000 +5000
Zone 1 has an enrollment demand of 15000 students, yet the neighborhood school capacity is only 10,000. Where are the other 5,000 students going to sit ? Oh but in zone two there is the opposite, only demand of 10,000 but capacity for 15,000. So what to do ? - build more schools in zone 1 at a tune of $25k per student ? Or utilize a magnet program to bribe parents to send their kids to a not so nice area far from home ?
With regards to the electives offered - these are for all of the students in the school, not just the ones who volunteer to be bused in.
In your example, there would
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 14:56 — red_balloonIn your example, there would be no need to fund a renovation in zone two. But that isn't what we saw with Smith Magnet. If there truly was excess capacity in that area (one of the reasons for magnets) then I would think you can abandon the building and spend the twenty odd million in an overcrowded area.
I will revisit this topic when it arises on a more current thread. I usually don't look up threads past page one.
summary
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:17 — user12345A few observations from the posts above ... first, example was Enloe student who took the same classes as the Leesville student ... the observed difference was not more classes, not harder classes, but higher expectations ... there is no cost adder for higher expectations at magnets ... that same attitude can be taken to Leesville for no cost ... so, from the posts above, Leesviille (as an example) could be Enloe if the teachers and parents expected more of their kids and the additional cost would be zero. Red you are going to be disappointed if you assume you can make your school Enloe by adding a few more music and dance classes. It is more than that. But fortunately the more is free.
Thanks
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:01 — Solon77The fact is many of our schools can be more like Enloe, Green Hope and Raleigh Charter without spending more $. There are significant mindset differences between these schools and others. One measure for me is utilization of AP classes. At Enloe and Green Hope the average student is taking 3-4 AP classes. At Leesville, Wakefield and others it is 2 or slightly less with Apex (affluent area) one of the lowest. I do not buy the argument that it is because Enloe offers more. When there are 20+ different AP classes available at each school and the average student is only taking 2 or less, there is still plenty of opportunity. At Enloe getting into an AP class is a challenge due to the high demand, where there is on average 100 students for each AP offering, filing 3 classes. This compares to Leesville/Wakefield filing one class per offering.
As far as all of these extra resources that is bantered about - I think this topic was pretty much exhausted when the board elected to keep maintain Broughton's status citing minimal costs to maintain magnet status.
With regards to rigor - we should put the highest challenge in front of all of our kids.
In other words, the extra
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:49 — red_balloonIn other words, the extra resources at Enloe don't make a difference?
What extra resources
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:11 — Solon77What extra resources ? I am serious, there is a perception that somehow Enloe and other magnets have all of these extra resources. Help me to understand what extra resources you are referring to. My family lives in both worlds - magnet and base and frankly I cannot see a difference.
two extra sources
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 17:51 — red_balloon1. When the MSAP funds are inadequate, local funds are utilized. This helps with capital expenditure/ starting/ revising a program.
2. Once a program starts running, operating expenses are funded from the WCPSS operating budget. This is roughly 1% of the operating budget.
In sum, magnets get extra resources. It isn't perception; it is fact.
Magnet grants are for
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:40 — jenmanMagnet grants are for getting a program up and running. The money eventually runs out and you can't get more unless you're significantly changing the program. So the money for the extra teachers has to come from somewhere.
I know you said in another post that your Enloe student isn't taking any courses that were not offered at a school like Leesville. What about the students who are taking such courses? I believe that some of their departments like arts and communications/broadcasting offer more courses than regular high schools. When 'regular' high schools are cutting French and Orchestra, I can't imagine that Enloe isn't getting extra funds to keep all of their programs going.
I do know that magnets get extra Months of Employment, but I'm not sure how many or how it's calculated.
Thank you for setting us
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:43 — user12345Thank you for setting us straight ... there are a few here who seem to make up stuff about magnets / Enloe ... since you can see both sides and can compare .... it really helps over folks who are clueless. .... hopefully, we can get them to eventually see that higher expectations works for affluent white kids too ... at no cost .... and they will spend less time being angry are Enloe for having higher expectation and more at their local HS and parents for not following suit.
There are two sources for
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 17:54 — red_balloonThere are two sources for magnet funding: MSAP (for CAPEX) and local (for OPEX and CAPEX). What part of having that knowledge qualifies me as clueless and a source of fiction regarding magnets?