How much revision is in store for year two of the new Wake County student assignment plan?
As noted in today's article, new Democratic school board members Susan Evans and Christine Kushner acknowledge it's too difficult to make changes at this late date for the 2012-13 school year. But they are talking about looking at substantive changes for the 2013-14 school year.
Kushner talked about the possibility of merging the choice plan with the base assignment component of the old plan.
“I want to explore a hybrid model, some residence-based assignment with expanded choice,” Kushner said.
Said Kushner’s fellow Democrat Susan Evans, “The families seem quite frustrated at being in limbo for quite a long time. The main thing I want to know is, how is the plan working for the people who entered the choice the process?
You also had school board vice chairman Keith Sutton recently talking about adding diversity components back into the student assignment policy.
Both Evans and Kushner, during their board comments Tuesday, pointed to how well Raleigh fared in the recent Brookings Institution report that found that education gaps were the smallest of any of the 100 largest metropolitan areas in the country. Noting how the Brookings report speculated that the reasons was the old diversity policy, Evans and Kushner said keeping alive elements of the old assignment policy should be considered.
During his board comments, board member John Tedesco cautioned against comparing the Raleigh-Cary metro area with the other more low-income metro areas in the report.
Comments
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Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:26 — JSBinNCbut I only see round 1 results. I do NOT see the result from my choice for child #2 in round 2!!!!!!!!!!!
This drama
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 10:36 — ScoreOneis the result of Tata and his toadies creating this plan and trying to shove it through regardless of the consequences. I can't understand the attitude, of "let this plan sit out there for a few years and let the dust settle."
What are we getting for the $100,000+ contract with Michael Alves, the choice-savior of America? They can't find homes for the proposed new schools that are supposed to open next year. They aren't going to open new schools that have been allocated resources yet, we have schools bursting at the seams.
TT and team make this stuff up as they go along...period. He needs to cowboy up and own this mess. Better yet, resign and go write another GI Joe book, or wax poetically on FOX. It isn't the BOE's fault he brought a bogus plan to the table.
The new plan has not even
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 08:25 — shearertwThe new plan has not even been in place 1-day yet and it's got to be scrapped. Nice! Given the nightmare that was/is WCPSS student assignment over the past 3 decades, any new plan would take at least 3 years to implement and work the kinks out. Just as I predicted following the result of last election, the next 10 years of WCPSS will be TOTAL CHAOS! All of our kids will be graduated by then so we'll never know what a sane school system could look like.
I'm not happy with my
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:54 — tropicalgirlI'm not happy with my current lot under the plan but I don't understand why people are protesting to STOP the plan. How does it help them or anyone else to throw the whole system back into chaos? It makes more sense to look at the issues systematically and determine how each issue can be addressed with tweaks to the plan that don't undermine it's stability as a whole. That doesn't mean that everyone will be happy, but I would be much happier not getting into our walk zone school if I knew they actively sought solutions during the choice process rather than the crap they're shoveling now.
TPG, You clearly have a
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 11:22 — shearertwTPG,
You clearly have a reason to be upset and I wish there was someone who would listen to your issues, address them or at least be transparent about what they're trying to do for you. This plan (like any other that would bring us out of the diversity busing era) was going to have some collateral damage, which you just happen to be a part of. Unfortunately, you now have a rep who has an agenda which includes making this plan look as bad as possible and making as many parents as upset and frustrated as possible so she can justify returning to the failed policies of the past. I guarantee that the new DOE will destroy this plan and revert to reassignments based on "diversity" (which really means shifting kids around to make Raleigh "fare" better) as early as next year. While there may be 1000 or so parents in your situation this year which with a little tweaking of the current plan could be reduced to <100 next year, there will likely be 10,000 or more next year and the year after that thanks the not so distant changes to be made by the Dem BOE.
"there will likely be 10,000 or more next year"
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 14:13 — FSandYOUGuaranteeing a one and done run for the 3 Stooges.
Ehh....
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 16:33 — Bob_SconceThey have at least 3 more years. Remember who's up for election in 2013. And, it's probable that at least one of [John Tedesco, Chris Malone, Debra Goldman] will get a better job, with his/her replacement named by the Democrats.
One term is what I meant
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:00 — FSandYOUAnd in their one term they won't accomplish anything more than continuing to alienate voters/families and more destruction of what was once a decent school system.
If they change course next year with the assignment plan they'll PO a lot more than the handful that isn't happy now. Once that happens we can all sit back and let that new crop of fed up voters take control and remove them.
It's the Wake County way isn't it?
Possibly, dare say likely,
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 14:25 — shearertwPossibly, dare say likely, but the damage is done. They will stop the current plan in is tracks, revert to something else for a year or two before they are dispatched, then, the new BOE will fight with the Rev, CCCACPCCCACPCCCCAPCPACCC, GSIW, and a bus load of garbage picked up on the side of the road for a year or two before a new, sane plan can be attempted only to have its knees cut out by the next BOE, etc, etc.
I love Wake Co.! The only good news is that, perhaps, the new BOE will do a better job of lying about our schools and my property values rise enough so I can sell my house and get out!
more uncertainty
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 08:18 — spiffy1If Evans and Kushner are this responsive to such a few parents (and yes, the numbers unhappy with this plan/how it is working for them is so low compared to all the other parents that have been upset about previous assignment/reassignments when we had the old plan), how will they respond to possibly 10,000-20,000 parents upset? That's what they will have to contend with if we go back to the old plan.
Why can't the new plan be given a chance?
"The main thing I want to know is, how is the plan working for the people who entered the choice the process?"--then you must also include those of us that chose to not enter because we made our choice to do that because we already attend our community school. You can't chose to block that voice out.
We don't want to go back to not knowing how long we can have our school as a possibility for our node.
Those that keep saying you knew where you could go to school with the old plan so easily forget ALL the reassignments for 10,000+ kids; you have only a guarantee of a few years...that was it.
Interesting to listen to all the speakers upset because they cannot get into the traditional and/or closest school to their home....sounds eerily familiar....where were you then?
Evans and Kushner are NOT
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:46 — tropicalgirlEvans and Kushner are NOT responsive to a few parents - they're just partaking in some lip service and handwringing to make it look like they care. Evans told me that she raised concerns about the plan back in October and my response was "Why didn't you do anything?" Quite frankly, they could have gotten with student assignment a few months ago to work out the problems that affected a minority but they didn't. They have been given a lot of first-hand accounts of how the process was broken for a lot of families but instead of fixing it so the plan could move forward more smoothly, they publicly lambast student assignment folks to safeguard a few future votes and do nothing so that those parents who are upset continue to complain publicly and our esteemed board majority can say the plan is failing. That's what they want.
And try not to be too hard about the speakers upset that they can't get to their closest school. I wasn't there last night but I understand their frustration since we are living through it. Under the old plan, we could have returned to the school all our neighbors go to, the school that is less than 2 miles from our house. Under the new plan, we didn't get into any of the five choice schools in round one because they were all "less than five seats" (i.e., negative capacity) and chose a further away school in round two just to get on a feeder pattern with our neighborhood next year. And compounding it all has been two months of changing rules and miscommunication - if you were lucky enough to already be assigned to the school (and feeder pattern) you wanted, and didn't have to go through the "choice" process, be thankful. It worked well for a lot but for others, it didn't just not work well, it's been a chaotic disaster.
Well
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:11 — local23I understand your plight, because many of us lived the disaster social economic plan over the last 10 years, but you say under the old plan you got not only a choice into a magnet school, but also a choice into your local school whereas, where we did not get a choice into our local school under the old plan. It appears if you actually got two seats and how fair is that? We couldn't even get one!
Under the old plan, if your node changed, split, re-designed on the fly you may or maynot be changed, sometimes they split them up, redesigned for part of one neighborhood to go to one school and another part of the neighborhood to go to another school. And then after those changes, we got reassigned again into forced MYR and our only "choice" was a school very far away, kindof sounds like you now? But we didn't get a choice, not really, if you got reassigned, tough, go where they told you to and then with the fiasco of MYR you had to rank your preferred track and you may or may not be given that, kindof sounds like you now? But, wait even you got into a track it could be collapsed or the track you were on was overcrowded and boom you got moved to another track the second week school and wait we got reassigned to four different schools in 5 years - there was no choice, now does that sound like you? I would guess not.
So who did you vote for, Evans? The choice was Ron and trust me he would try everything within his power to make it right for the parent(s).
No I did not vote for Evans.
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 00:44 — tropicalgirlNo I did not vote for Evans. And had Ron been able to make our situation right six years ago, then we wouldn't have applied for the magnet when we did. And you're right, the lack of choice we have now - since really, 5 schools with no seats is really no choice - is like your lack of choice under the old plan. Does that make it right? Ever think that maybe people who chose magnets or opted out of year-round years ago did so because they got screwed under the old plan? And now many of them are being yanked around under the new plan. Wasn't right then. Not right now.
...
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 06:45 — SideburnsWhat was your situation six years ago?
You do realize
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:07 — local23that six years ago Ron was the only one fighting for parents rights in Apex, Cary, FQ, Morrisville? He did not ask for the MYR, he did ask for more schools to be built and to quit shuffling kids every year, trust me he went head to head (no pun intended) with every board member, but the social diversity group won out the majority of the times.
Did you also forget that even when we did apply to a Magnet to get out of this nightmare, we were turned down again, again and again, because we did not fit the right social economic type, in otherwords, below middle class living OTB.
Please try to understand there will be glitches from this movement that they have been working on for over two years, I know it doesn't make everything right and I am sorry for your worries and situation, but I can distinctly remember being told no and no and no in the appeal process (I was deployed for Operation Noble Eagle) by WCPSS to get into a school right behind my house for my kids and having numerous times the rug pulled out from us well into..gee..two weeks before the MYR started in July, guess what the track you thought you signed up for, not going to happen..here is your new track!
...
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:28 — SideburnsI don't think you're replying to me -- but to tropicalgirl. I do wonder if she realizes how hard Margiotta fought to make parents relevant in their child's school assignment.
I'm sure she's not an Evans supporter
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:54 — FSandYOUBut those who voted for her are getting exactly what they asked for, NOT A THING.
Ron's the lucky one, he's done with this chaos.
The Choice "WAS" Ron
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:05 — FSandYOUBut the pathetic voters decided he was evil and that a truth stretching on again, off again, angry Barber supporter, song & dance, clap and rant CPA was a better choice.
Look where that's gotten them and will get them. She's inept and pathetic.
I say those who voted for her are getting exactly what they deserve!
agree
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 10:38 — spiffy1I think they (Evans/Kushner) are just doing their part to assist GSIW/Wake UP with getting what they want..not that they have anything to do with those groups, right?....
I'm not upset about people wanting the school closest to them...just think it is ironic that NOW we are hearing this from those on the "other side" of the aisle. Where were they when we had the old busing for diversity plan and where will they be if we go back to that? They can forget about neighborhood schools and any stability for sure if we go there again.
I'm just asking for people to give it time and allow for adjustments to be made to help work out the kinks. No plan will ever make everyone happy, but compared to the "old plan" the parents/families satisfaction seems amazingly high.
The 3 Stooges
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:14 — FSandYOUwill all be kicked out of office easily before they can ever make changes to any plan. The bottom line, they've accomplished nothing and will continue to accomplish nothing. They simply don't know how to lead. All they know how to do is stretch truths, rant, sing, chant and clap their hands.
As to the few upset speakers sounding eerily familiar, right you are, where were they then. They're too late now and so it's their turn because they didn't bother to lend a hand then. Most of them anyway.
I would not sweat anything the 3 Stooges rant about, they'll be long gone in a couple of years. Right upset speakers!
The new plan cannot be given
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 08:31 — shearertwThe new plan cannot be given a chance because it takes the control of people's lives away from the BOE...that is something liberals simply cannot handle.
FYI to Ms. Evans-Not entering the choice process was.....NEWS FLASH.....A CHOICE!
Argh...
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 07:31 — Bob_SconceThe way forward is to fix the rough edges and wrinkles in the current assignment plan. Most of this year's upheaval is just transitory, either because people's expectations were broken, or because the transition was complicated, or because something unexpected came up. Next year, under the current plan, will be significantly better.
However, any major changes of the sort that Kushner and Evans propose, will cause exactly the same sorts of problems next year. For example, the district has promised people that once they're in a feeder pattern, they can stay in that feeder pattern. K&E now want to break that promise. And, in doing so, we'll hear the same sort of complaint from people who made choices in reliance on that feeder as we heard from magnet parents who made choices in reliance on the promise that they could always 'return to base'.
As to the Brookings report, clearly Evans and Kushner are not detail people -- the Brookings report said that WCPSS schools with poor students did about as well as WCPSS schools with affluent students. No surprise there -- under the diversity policy, those were pretty much the same schools; compare anything against itself, and of course you won't find a difference. However, the Brookings report did NOT discuss the gap between the performance of poor and affluent kids. And, on that, the district falls down -- WCPSS ED students underperform their peers both in North Carolina and the rest of the country.
I Agree.....
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:23 — JanisTangoI was at a meeting the other night where someone from the assignment department spoke. They said a couple of things I found interesting. First and foremost, this choice plan is really a kindergarden plan. In regards to kindergarden parents that made a choice this year so far, 92% of them got their first choice. They also said most of the issues we are seeing today are because of the transition. There were some schools that were way over capacity and that will continue in the near future until these 'bubble' groups get through the school. It will take years to get the schools to their optimal capacity. They said the true capacity of a school was never really known in the past. It changed from year to year with reassignment.
Another thing they said was the reason they assigned the highest priority points to your first choice is so you wouldn't fall into the position of getting your second choice if there were actually spaces available at your first choice. For each round they reassign your priority points so they weren't carried forward from Round 1 to Round 2.
Someone else said they will see where the capacity is truly needed. In the past they would just buy the cheapest land where ever they could get it and force kids to go there. I think we are seeing that already with this plan. This new plan will givem them a lot better idea where the seats are needed. They will also have a lot better idea what schools have issues and deal with those problems instead of hiding the problems with reassignment.
They do not "reassign" points in the second round...
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:56 — eztaylorPriority points are awarded based on the combination between a specific student and his or her first choice school. There is no way you would get your second choice if there were still seats available at your first choice, since in the first round, all school are filled with first choices before any second choice student is placed there.
The plan could have recalculated priorities for second choice, if your first choice was full, but the assignment team chose not to do that.
We Were Told....
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:21 — JanisTangothat priority points from round one are thrown out and reassigned in the second round. I could be wrong, but that is what I have in my notes! They specifically made the point that they only assign the priority points to your first choice in both rounds!
What did they mean by
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:31 — jenmanWhat did they mean by 'reassign' the points?
Kindergarten plan
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:15 — turnerk1I wasn't at the meeting you mentioned, so I may be reading the wrong thing into your description of what the student assignment person said, but I have a problem with suggesting that the assignment plan is a success because its really "a Kindergarten plan" and the other issues are just a function of the transition. Perhaps in an area that is stable or losing population, this would be true. But, we will always have a relatively large number of children moving in and out of the system at other grades besides Kindergarten. For me the biggest problem with this plan right now is the way that it handles children who aren't in Kindergarten and moving into the system. They are at a great, and to me, unfair disadvantage.
I also agree that it is misleading to suggest that the system was unaware of what schools were having problems, and which schools were overcrowded. Anyone who has followed assignment issues around here knows that the explanation for many of the reassignments hinged on issues of capacity. It was also very obvious which schools were percieved as being bad by parents (justified or not), just by watching which areas had large numbers of children opting out of the traditional schools for magnets/charter/private options. Also, the system is very aware of the test scores for all of the schools, even if they often aren't transparent about this information with the public. They knew (and know) which ones are struggling.
Finally, suggesting that they are suddenly going to be able to build schools in other than the cheapest large plots of land they can find is also disingenuous. As another poster has pointed out, the CCs are not going to pay for large lots in prime areas-- even assuming something like that even exists in the more built-out areas of the county.
No Action
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:51 — JanisTangoThe school district in the past knew where problem schools were, but they were always slow to make changes and in some cases they have never addressed some of the issues. With this new plan they need to fix these schools or they will continued to be under enrolled.
hmmm
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:43 — EBDarcySomeone made this argument recently, that the new plan gives us information about capacity and where schools are needed that we didn't have in the past. I don't hink that's true. The schools with the most demand were not a surprise, with a few exceptions because of the rigid feeder patterns, and the underchosen schools weren't either. Where the capacity is needed wasn't hidden before.
As for where to build them there are not unlimited options. And we've got a tight-fisted BOC. It requires a large parcel of land to build a middle or high school. Those usually aren't available in the high density areas and if they are Wake can't afford them.
I think it is true to some
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:27 — jenmanI think it is true to some extent that we are now seeing where the capacity is really needed. Take Wakefield High for example. When all of the FON corridor neighborhoods were moved to Heritage, we were told that it was because of the massive growth in the Wakefield area and that we couldn't all possibly fit into WHS. What they failed to mention was that there were approx 1100 kids assigned to Wakefield who lived further south (Fox Rd & E Millbrook area).
The Long Range capacity for WHS is 1855 & the Annual Capacity is 3100. 1100 students is over half of the LRSCC. There were about 450 students in the FON corridor neighborhoods who got reassigned to Heritage. So they couldn't fit the kids in who actually live near the school because of massive growth, but they can assign over twice as many kids who live farther away? And those kids actually live about the same distance from Heritage as they do Wakefield.
We've always known that Western Wake has had capacity issues so there's really no news there. But what about Broughton, Millbrook & Sanderson experiencing capacity issues? I think that's a bit surprising for some people. Under this new plan, even with Fox Road Elem kids feeding into Wakefield High, there were still seats available in the second round if I remember correctly.
...
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:02 — SideburnsHas there been a list published of the demand at each school? How many requested seats at each school, how many were accepted, etc?
proves nothing
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 13:03 — EBDarcyThere is a gap between the performance of ED and affluent kids nationwide, not just in Wake County.
You know some people here have said that all the upheaval we've been through the last 2 years was ok because it was righting what they perceived as a wrong in the past. (Of course they are usually the people who aren't directly affected or got what they wanted under the new plan.) This plan was rushed and many of what you call wrinkles were obvious or predicted and could have been addressed in advance in an attempt to mitigate them. It's a darn good thing that only a small number of people entered the lotteries because otherwise we would have had a bigger mess.
Umm...but the gap is wider
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 13:32 — shearertwUmm...but the gap is wider in Wake Co. despite spending scores of transportation resources and bureaucratic people hours each year realigning schools far and above what growth alone was responsible for. Therefore, those resources, which included parental blood, sweat and tears, were all for naught....totally wasted. You can't even begin to quantify the waste of opportunity lost due to the gigantic yearly distraction caused by all the reassignments, etc. We should have/could have spent that time coming up with and implementing innovative solutions that actually work. You diversity at all cost folks act like there's no cost to the diversity policy. That's far from the truth. So...if there's a cost, there should be some benefit but there isn't....and that is the truth.
Bob,Notice how they said
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 08:18 — shearertwBob,
Notice how they said "how good Raleigh fared", not the performance of low income students. The purpose of the former diversity policy was always about how "Raleigh fares", not students. Efforts to bring it back will also be all about Raleigh.
You are correct. It will
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 08:20 — jenmanYou are correct. It will be all about Raleigh, or more specifically central Raleigh.
...
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 07:12 — SideburnsThat sounds like reassignments will be in our near future once again.