What's the best way for the Wake County school board to spend $59 million in school construction savings?
As noted in today's North Raleigh News article, staff have recommended using the $59 million to build two new elementary schools that could open in 2013. Staff have identified three sites: U.S. 1 in Wake Forest near the Franklin County border, the closed North Wake Landfill in North Raleigh and Scotts Ridge Elementary in Apex.
But administrators aren't recommending which two out of that trio should be selected. Staff have asked the board to discuss the issue at Tuesday's committee of the whole meeting.
The $59 million comes from various projects in the current $1.056 billion school construction program coming under budget.
Asst. Supt. Joe Desormeaux said staff looked at where crowding was the greatest and where the school system could quickly begin construction. At a cost of $25 million per elementary school, the savings covered the cost of building two schools.
In the section of the county that includes the Wake Forest and North Raleigh sites, elementary schools are projected to be at 110.7 percent of capacity in 2013. In the area that includes Scotts Ridge, elementary schools are projected to be at 105.6 percent in 2013.
Although staff is recommending building two elementary schools, Desormeaux said the board could go another way. The board could tell staff to build on other elementary school sites owned by Wake.
The board could tell staff to only build one elementary school and use the remaining $34 million on something else, such as land acquisition and renovations to existing schools.
The board could also use the money to build one middle school, costing around $50 million. But Desormeaux said crowding in middle schools wasn’t as much of a concern as at elementary schools.
With a single high school costing more than $70 million, Desormeaux said staff wouldn’t recommend using the savings to start work on a high school unless they could guarantee that money would be found elsewhere to complete the project.
Below are handouts from a recent facilities committee meeting.
Click here for a sheet listing the different options.
Click here for a sheet showing projected elementary school crowding in 2013.
Click here for a sheet showing projected middle school crowding in 2013.
Click here for a sheet showing projected high school crowding in 2013.
Click here for a sheet showing projected modular and mobile use in 2013.
Click here for a sheet showing enrollment projections in 2013.
Click here for an elementary school map of possible sites.
Click here for a middle school map of possible sites.
Click here for a high school map of possible sites.
Comments
Vo Tech
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 20:16 — prescott2Vo-tech schools are passe'. What value is there in training kids for low paying jobs like landscaping or sheet metal/automotive workers when employers ( if you can find them) have indicated they prefer to train their own employees. This is not 1950. Spending $50+million on dead end careers seems like a huge cover-up for not doing what needs to be done- which is to address the achievement gap and educate all kids to be globally competitive. Wake tech offers many of these credentialed programs- why not make sure that students are prepared to handle Wake Tech classes and obtain an associates degree. What happened to all the jammering about raising the bar and offering Algebra 1 to everyone? And what makes folks think only low income kids in Southeast Raleigh need to pursue vocational education. There are plenty of non academically achieving/ non college bound kids through-out Wake County. Vocational education is not an antidote for poverty.
Votech IS NOT "passe'." I
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 23:03 — woodstockVotech IS NOT "passe'." I don't think you have kept up with what a votech school can be. It can include education/training for well-paying careers in healthcare (nurses, radiologists dental technicians) , design, construction (plumbers, electricians), IT, advanced manufacturing, criminal justice and others. These students are still expected to earn a diploma. It keeps a lot of kids in school who may otherwise drop out and prepares them for employment or additional education.
Wake Tech
Thu, 07/15/2010 - 06:58 — Dove314All of those programs are already available at Wake Tech including plumbing and automotive services technology plus quite a few more. Would it not be more cost effective to work out a program which allows WCPSS students to take courses at Wake Tech? Wake Tech already has 5-7 campuses including in Northern and Western Wake along with the main campus south of Lake Wheeler.
Yeah...
Thu, 07/15/2010 - 07:53 — Bob_SconceHow, and whether, to work with WakeTech is an open question. The one big impediment is that you need a HS diploma to go to WakeTech.
IIRC, several of those WakeTech campuses are actually WCPSS high schools.
WCPSS already has a
Thu, 07/15/2010 - 08:13 — magnetParentWCPSS already has a partnership with Wake Tech.
http://www.wcpss.net/school_to_career/wtcc/
They also have the Wake Early College, which allows students to graduate with a 2 year degree. Southeast has courses that are actually taught at Wake Tech (ie. Certified Nursing Assistant, taught at Wake Tech). While this is a magnet course, the WCPSS/WTCC Dual Enrollment program allows students from any high school to enroll at Wake Tech.
I agree with you, votech
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 20:49 — CaryCurmudgeonI agree with you, votech candidates can come from all walks of life. I have certainly seen kids from affluent families bomb out of school due to lack of interest. I believe, in some cases, that a votech option may have kept some of them interested in school, at least enough to get their degree.
I disagree about automotive employers wanting to train employees themselves, based on my interactions with people who are in that business. They are business owners and would much rather hire a skilled worker than have to go behind them and check every piece of work. And people will always drive cars. People will always need health care, computer hardware service, and carpentry. At the same time, I know lots of engineers, marketing managers, project managers, etc. who are out of work. It is hard to outsource a mechanic or a computer repair tech. And there are many other skills that can be built during the high school years which are marketable and secure.
Having a votech school and program gives students more choice. Having a votech program does not mean that students are no longer required to take math, english and science -- the world is already full of too many adults who can't balance a checkbook or communicate professionally.
Good point...
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 20:33 — Bob_SconceAny vo-tech school has to do a good job of staying ahead of the game to teach relevant courses -- I'd be sorely disappointed if they started teaching TV repair, for example. But, there will always be a demand for skilled carpenters, plumbers and HVAC technicians.
I agree that we should be trying to get as many kids to college as possible. After all, average salaries for people without college degrees have been falling for decades. However, salaries for people without high school degrees have been falling even faster. And, the fact is that some students are just not heading for college. If a vo-tech program can give them a reason to stay in school and give them a skill that they can practice when they get out, that's better than the alternative.
Vo-Tech isn't a complete antidote for poverty. But, it can certainly help some kids avoid the poverty cycle.
OT:WCPSS Preliminary Test Scores Show Improvement
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 11:26 — Tony_LucasAchievement gaps narrowed, except for African-American Math EOG scores, but the gap remained constant. www.wcpss.net/news/2010_july14_prelim-testing/index.html
the article in NRN says that
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:24 — ncstahls413the article in NRN says that 2 of the sites (Apex & N Raleigh @ Durant) were envisioned as joint school & municipal park space. Well there's a story in the NRN about the new park built at Durant Rd on the same space the school is planned for. So isn't the partnership of school/park space already halfway completed there? Or is there another park planned for that space? Thank you!
The new county park and the
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:49 — KeungHui (author)The new county park and the city park around the landfill are different. The city has no money to build its side yet. They're going to do an RFP for design work.
Outstanding idea!! A
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 08:26 — woodstockOutstanding idea!! A vo-tech school would immediately and positively address drop-out and graduation rates -- likely even suspension rates -- and fill a glaring gap in WCPSS's educational tool kit.
Which of the three locations
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:46 — magnetParentWhich of the three locations mentioned are suitable for a vo-tech school? Wouldn't it be better placed in SE Raleigh?
I thought downtown was
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:53 — red_balloonI thought downtown was surfeit with under utilized facilities. If that be the case, rather than building a new facility, perhaps the money can fund vo-tech courses at an existing school.
Wake Forest Rd?
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:37 — ego7601Since the school board is moving to the new location in Cary, why not convert the building on Wake Forest Road into some sort of vo-tech school? I know there will have to be changes made to the inside of the building, but I'm sure that it will cost a heck of a lot less than building a new structure. And the school board already owns the land and building. It is in a fairly central location and has easy access to downtown, mid-town, uptown, the bus lines, and the beltline. If the school board can convert a Winn-Dixie into a 9th grade center, why not an office building into a vo-tech school? Figure they could get 2 elementary schools for $50M and use some of the remaining $9M to make upgrades to the building.
That makes sense in some
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:44 — red_balloonThat makes sense in some ways but my rather rudimentary understanding of this issue is that vo-tech would benefit F&Rs more and that there is a greater concentration of these students in the SE Raleigh area.
I am not familiar with the
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:48 — woodstockI am not familiar with the locations, so I don't know. Why would SE Raleigh be a better place?
The locations: Apex, North
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:59 — magnetParentThe locations: Apex, North Raleigh and near Franklin County (north of Wake Forest).
I guess my question was based on a post you made on a different thread:
"Additionally, just like the rest of the county, students in low income areas can apply to magnet schools, year-round schools, themed academies, and, hopefully some day soon, a vo-tech school."
Seems like the vo-tech school should be where there is the highest amount of low income students.
I am not sure how many
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:30 — CaryCurmudgeonI am not sure how many vo-tech students would be F&R. That aside, SE Raleigh or somewhere nearby would be a good "central" location for access across the county.
Crossroads
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:43 — Dove314I thought Crossroads was the new "central". Would Cary zoning laws permit a Vo-Tech school near Crossroads?
So...
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 11:31 — Bob_SconceI agree that convenience is important here, and so the question is "convenient to who?" In both cases, you have to consider the people who are going to be making the most use out of the building.
For the administration building, the primary users are district employees. Secondary users are parents of all WCPSS students. For that set of people, a location right at the intersection of the two main roads in the county makes sense. For a vo-tech school, the big population is the students attending the school, and then their instructors. So, you'd need to look at who is likely to use the facility and place it appropriately.
What would a Vo-Tech high school look like? What grades would go? Would it have lots of athletic fields like a typical HS? Would it have an auditorium? Would students go there every day, or would they also take academic classes in their base schools? Should some vo-tech programs be offered at base schools?
No one, at least not me,
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 11:22 — CaryCurmudgeonNo one, at least not me, ever made a claim that Cary was a "central" location. I believe the board's case to do this move was financially-based. I have no idea what this decision has to do with building a vo-tech high school that is in a geographically-central part of the county.
Do you like the idea of a vo-tech or not? If you do, then why dredge up your unhappiness with the board's decision to move offices, instead of searching for common ground that a variety of people can agree on?
misassmption
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 11:43 — Dove314I don't really care about the move of the central offices with the exception of whether it is financially advantageous. Somehow I'm not shocked at you making assumptions and throwing insults in your post though.
Really, there is no insult
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 12:46 — CaryCurmudgeonReally, there is no insult in what I posted. You feel insulted any time someone doesn't agree with you. Thicken up the skin a bit, this is a forum for debate.
Ha ha
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 17:53 — Dove314I'm sure you intended nothing but sunshine and rainbows by adding the phrase "why dredge up your unhappiness" putting your incorrect spin in responding to my post. If you don't want to acknowledge your lack of manners on this blog, that's fine. My skin is just fine LOL.
Am I still on your Christmas
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 18:52 — CaryCurmudgeonAm I still on your Christmas card list?
You're right, good manners are optional, but
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 12:53 — Athey01it's refreshing when posters practice good manners... it must be a southern thing.
yeah sure, just like good
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 13:21 — AngelaWyeah sure, just like good ole boy Joe "Tarheel" from another post? puhlease!
thank you
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 13:31 — Athey01this is a good example... of not to imitate. However, you right, not all southerners practice good manners.
Let's argue about where it should be located, later.. but
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 11:27 — Athey01for now, let's petition our BOE members to allocate the funds for a vo-tech center.
Did the case for Crossroads
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:46 — red_balloonDid the case for Crossroads include claims of it being a central location?
Can't cite specifics
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:50 — Dove314But thought that was indeed one of the arguments in favor of Crossroads -- it was central to the whole of Wake including the large population in Western Wake and the more southern municipalities -- Fuquay, Holly Springs, Apex, Garner, etc.
If someone did make the
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:58 — red_balloonIf someone did make the claim - "central to the whole of Wake" - that would be incorrect. I thought it was driven by economics (at least until I perused Solon's analysis).
You misunderstand. I
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:05 — woodstockYou misunderstand. I don't presume students from low income families would be the only ones interested in attending a vo-tech school.
I apologize if I
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:56 — magnetParentI apologize if I misunderstood your comment, but was how I read it. Together with your other comment "A vo-tech school would immediately and positively address drop-out and graduation rates -- likely even suspension rates" implies a category that is performing poorly in graduation rates and has a high drop out rate.
I don't presume it either. But the 3 locations are far from central and not ideal for something like this (IMO).
I don't care where it would
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 13:06 — woodstockI don't care where it would be located. Not having a vo-tech option in Wake is a shame. If this money provides an opportunity to add one, I am all for it. And, if it is something we all can agree on, that is just icing on the cake.
Vo-Tech
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 07:31 — CaryCurmudgeonOur high schools would be bursting at the seams if we didn't have kids dropping out. Why not consider using the money to build a vo-tech high school. I know there has been talk of partnering with Wake Tech, but their facilities are swamped right now. Here's a chance to make an immediate impact on the graduation rate.
This is an idea which would build consensus
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:26 — Athey01from all parties. We may argue about where it should be located, but this is what the BOE should be talking about and working on, IMO.
Excellent idea. If the
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:43 — tabdjbExcellent idea. If the board was so concerned about the dropout rate, why are some of these ideas not being considered.
What makes you think they
Wed, 07/14/2010 - 09:49 — woodstockWhat makes you think they aren't being considered?