Is the Wake County school board still set to adopt a community-baaed schools plan?
As noted in today's article, school board vice chairwoman Debra Goldman repeatedly said during Tuesday's meeting that the board is still moving to community based schools. She said the only question is what plan they'll pick so she backed the proposal from Kevin Hill to have the full board embark on a consensus-building approach.
"You’ve now had a commitment from all nine board members to work on a community-based school plan," Goldman said during the meeting. "It will be a community-based school plan. It needs to go in my opinion, the board can discuss it, and then the board can craft the plan and then the board can vote.
Hopefully after everyone feeling that there’s been discussion and there’s been work together in building that plan, hopefully there will be more than a 5-4 vote. But if it comes down to a 5-4 vote for which community based school plan we pick, then that is what it will be. But at least the entire board will have had a piece of that discussion."
After the meeting, Hill said he wasn't going as far as Goldman in saying they had all agreed on going with community-based schools.
"I'm hoping we can all come together without prejudging things and come up with something we can agree upon," Hill said.
Also after the meeting, school board member John Tedesco argued that Goldman's votes on Oct. 5 and Tuesday have put the move to community-based schools at risk. He said that Hill's approach will delay adoption of a new plan to after the 2011 school board elections when control of the board might shift back to supporters of the old diversity policy.
Tedesco also said that in the process of trying to develop consensus that support for community-based schools could be watered down.
"For the past 11 months, the Democrat members of the school board have tried to stall, stop and hinder what the people elected us to do," Tedesco said. "They've found the support of Mrs. Goldman to help them."
Tuesday's vote came after a contentious round of bickering by the board.
The vote almost never took place. School board chairman Ron Margiotta had moved up the closed session to accommodate board attorney Ann Majestic's schedule. His plan had been to end the meeting with the closed session without getting to Hill's proposal.
But Hill demanded that the board discuss it, prompting Margiotta to agree to reopen after the closed session.
Much of Tuesday's debate revolved around whether the full board or the student assignment committee should tackle Hill's proposal.
Hill argued that the full board needs to tackle the issue. He also noted that Margiotta hadn't placed him on any of the standing committees.
"While I do not serve on any standing committees that have met since December 1, 2009, I have attended many committee meetings and it has been made clear that since I am not a committee member, my thumb does not count," Hill said. "I believe that all nine board members must be included in the discussion."
Hill pushed for the board to hold work sessions dedicated solely to student assignment to discuss how to implement the new model.
Margiotta responded that he still feels the student assignment committee is the best place for his proposal. He argued that the board already has a busy schedule of meetings coming up, pointing to student reassignment, the next bond issue and the budget.
(I think it's fairly safe to say that most of the members of the former majority wanted it in the student assignment committee to have more control of the process rather than them saying they wanted to adopt Hill's approach.)
This is where Goldman first made her presence felt by saying she felt it was really important for the entire board to work together.
School board member Deborah Prickett then made her pitch to rescind the Oct. 5 resolution halting work on the zone plan. It didn't get much traction.
Tedesco said that he's concerned that Hill wanted to start a consensus-building approach Tuesday without consensus on the board to do so.
Board member Chris Malone questioned the consensus that would emerge from a 5-4 vote to adopt Hill's approach. He argued it was Hill's approach that was delaying things.
"I don’t think how we can all come to consensus here when we can’t come to consensus out there," Malone said.
Malone brought up the Alves plan, saying how people have criticized the board majority for speeding things up while not objecting to Alves getting a plan done in 60 to 90 days.
Board member Anne McLaurin said no one has said anything about the Alves plan.
Goldman said she "can not fathom" wanting to do anything that affects the entire county without having all nine board members involved in the discussions.
Malone said they want to hear from all board members. He also argued they had a process to hear from all stakeholders down the line through the community meetings that would have been held on the zone plan.
Malone challenged Goldman whether she's suggesting that her policy committee and other committees should have all nine board members because their decisions affect everyone.
Hill responded that some issues transcend the committee level. He also challenged Malone for his prior remark about consensus being a lack of leadership.
Tedesco argued that every board member has had an opportunity to participate on the student assignment committee. But Hill responded that there's a difference between sharing your opinions and being able to vote in the committee.
Malone said he felt he needed to explain his consensus remark.
"When you've had the majority, you’ve always led," Malone said to Hill. "And consensus was never asked of Mr. Margiotta, whether or not it was all right that 6200 was written the way it was and would he like to have diversity taken out. Nobody ever asked him that question.
And then when we win, all of a sudden, whoa you won, let’s see if we can pull back some of that victory and we don't want you to do all the things you wanted to do. We want you to give us back some of the things that we're not going to able to do because we're now in the minority."
At this point, board member Carolyn Morrison said they really need a mediator. "We need to be of one accord and be a good role model for the community," she said.
Malone said that he has respect for all of his fellow board members and likes them all.
"I appreciate that," board member Keith Sutton quipped.
"Don’t be a wise guy," Malone fired back. "Disagreement doesn’t equal disrespect."
Malone said they don't need a facilitator.
Prickett echoed Malone's earlier comment that if some board members are concerned about participation then every committee should have all nine board members as voting members.
Prickett and Hill got into a wrangle about the value of the monthly work sessions.
After complaining that her turn had been skipped by Margiotta, Goldman was given the floor where she talked about how student assignment has divided the board and the county.
"It’s really important that every inch of this county, every person in this county, every stakeholder, every parent, every taxpayer feels that they are being represented in this discussion," Goldman said. "I think the only one way to do that at this point is to have every board member part of the final steps in creating the plan."

Comments
"Debra Goldman contending
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:41 — woodstockGoldman said she "can not
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 19:12 — woodstockThe only remaining explanation is that Goldman is a complete moron. All nine school board members HAVE been involved in the discussion ...endlessly and ad nauseum. What the hell did she think all the community engagement meeting held before the elections, the forums, the debates, the campaigns, the work sesssions, the meetings, the committee meetings the public dialog was all about? Did she just wake up from a coma?
...
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 19:43 — SideburnsI do find it strange that she will no longer make public comments unless during a public meeting. First she won't shut up and now she won't say anything. Odd.
It is extremely strange
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 12:34 — woodstockIt is extremely strange ...so strange in fact, that I believe her decisions are being compromised. It appears she is either irrational and easily fooled or, more likley, someone is putting enmormous pressure on her to slow things down... to a halt. I believe she is acting in her own self-interest/preservation and not in the interest of the school system. It is only thing that makes sense at this point.
...
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 14:55 — SideburnsI read a post from you in another thread about Perry Wood's involvement with Goldman. I wonder if this is true. And, if so, if Perry will explain further.
Perry = Meeker, don't forget
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:08 — woodstockPerry = Meeker, don't forget that. Woods is literally in love with the Meekers.
Point taken
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:45 — DrActualFactualPerhaps there is a "more danagerous threesome" than McCain said we had in Obama, Pelosi and Reid!
If Perry Woods
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 15:28 — FSandYOUis involved with her or this board someone should come forward and tell the public. Is she going to quit and Lois slide in that seat?
Question for Mr. Hui?
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 17:46 — DrActualFactualThat would be highly improper. Perry Woods worked for Lois Nixon. He couldn't just play dirty tricks/hardball after the election and then insert his candidate. I don't know whatever became of Mr. Woods' complaint against Ms. Goldman but I would think by now it had been dealt with. People can speculate as to whether it got Mr. Woods some leverage but if that was the intent I would think he'd have used it much earlier on before she changed all those policies. Mr. Hui, Mr. Woods' complaint/action was dropped quite some time back wasn't it?
...
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:53 — SideburnsPlease don't misunderstand. I don't think the implication was that Woods was leveraging anyone with anything.
I think the comment made was that Woods had assisted in writing the directive that Goldman presented and supported that ended the zone assignment. Since she co-authored it with Hill & Sutton, it's really not that much of a reach to say Woods was involved. I'm not even sure if this is true and wonder if Perry will step up and explain. Curious minds want to know. :)
I remember him filing a
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:30 — KeungHui (author)I remember him filing a compalint against the WSCA. I don't recall him having filed one against Goldman.
I forgot that all four WSCA
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:37 — KeungHui (author)I forgot that all four WSCA backed candidates were also named in Perry's complaints. Joe Ciulla says the Board of Elections decided not to pursue the complaint.
It is kind of comical
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 23:26 — user12345It is kind of comical watching Ron run from radio station to station whining and crying .... maybe she is just enjoying the show now.
poor leadership
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 22:08 — turnerk1I have said before that I feel that Mr. Margiotta is a poor leader, and I think the events of the last few days have just exposed that more and more. It is clear that he thinks that there is only one way to achieve his goals -- and if Ms. Goldman won't back him 100% then he's planning to wait for a year and see about the results of the election, all the while blaming other people for the lack of progress on the issue. She says she's still in favor of community schools -- well take her at her word, and figure out how to work together. I think this board does need some kind of mediation or facilitation because he's not going to do it, and something must be done to break the cycle the board is in right now.
Not only do they face decisions about reassignment, but there is the budget to consider as well. Rather than get the public ready for really draconian cuts, all Mr. Margiotta has been doing is trying to soft-pedal the bad news. If the cuts in the classroom aren't as deep as David Neter fears, great! Then he can be the hero who saved all those jobs. But if they really do have to lay off 1000 teachers (or God forbid even more) then the time to educate the public about why a move like that might be necessary and unavoidable is now. It seems to me he's more worried about taking heat off the county commissioners than doing his job, which is advocating for the school system.
ot-from WRAL
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 17:54 — AngelaWDoesn't this come down to
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 11:29 — user12345Doesn't this come down to the definition of community ... for some community is their street, others all the houses built by the same builder, others Cary / Apex town limits, and some Wake country ... the discussion seems to be about how inclusive a person's community is ...
Therein lies the rub
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 13:37 — Solon77JT and RM use neighborhood and community as if it were the same. In the JT/RM whitepaper references were to neighborhood schools. To the average person neighborhood means - close to home, assigned, and everyone in the neighborhood go to the same schools. The JT zone plan (community) would give a priority to proximity but not guarantees and there was no guarantee the kids in the neighborhood would be going to the same school. The zone plan is not a neighborhood school model. Many people realized this and that is when Goldman put the breaks on. She is really the only one sticking to her campaign promise and the neighborhood school model.
One of the key points in the JT/RM whitepaper was the faith that under the neighborhood school model student achievement would improve as parents became more involved in the school. While there are no studies to factually support this, it does seem plausible to the general public to believe this. However, the zone model JT was proposing does not support this. Kids would be bused all over the place under the guise of choice, but really to deal with growth and utilize capacity.
The community needs to decide on the priorities:
Neighborhood schools as the common person understands it - assigned, close to home, the neighborhood goes to the same school - where in certain areas due to growth there will be reassignments of your neighborhood.
OR
JT Zone model - Community schools - no assignment, next available seat, your neighborhood is not together, still possibility of reassignment due to growth.
OR
Is the number one priority stability. I don't care where I go to school as long as I am there for the duration K-5, 6-8, 9-12. The neighborhood model and the zone model do not address this, especially in view of opening 30+ new schools ove rthe next 10 years.
The last piece to consider as proposed in the JT/RM whitepaper - the offer to allow ED and poor performing students a county wide choice of schools. How is this to be achieved ? Is it what is left over after all of the other assignment priorities - proximity, sibling, ect ? If this is the case, it is not a choice as our schools are at/near capacity so in essence it is an empty offering.
JT can bemoan the delay this will have on the assignment plan, but it is his own fault. Had he followed a process of transparency and community engagement in the establishment of priorities we would be further along.
A zone model would have
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 17:02 — jenmanA zone model would have allowed for more diversity within our schools. One street wouldn't separate a low poverty school from a high poverty school. Now granted, it still hadn't been determined what to do with SE Raleigh, but there were some interesting options we could have explored. The zone model was in the planning stages. It was seen by many as a compromise--as a way to allow for diversity without forcing it while still allowing for kids to go to school close to home.
As for stability--no assignment model will guarantee absolute stability when it comes to opening new schools. That was another issue that still needed to be hammered out with the zone model. However, the zone model allows for much more stability than a neighborhood schools model does. In a neighborhood schools model (or even our current node model), when a school gets overcrowded, somebody has to be moved out. In the zone model, you let in as many kids as there is room for.
To be clear, I wasn't completely sold on the idea of no base school. And there were still some issues that I thought needed to be addressed in the zone model, but I was willing to let those issues be addressed in the planning process.
Issues
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 15:31 — NWRaleighMomJenman, the issue of base/no-base is too big to be addressed in the planning process. I think I understand what JT is trying to achieve with no-base assignment but negatives far outweigh the possible positives.
You're right. I do think
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 17:13 — jenmanYou're right. I do think that there needed to be community discussion early on about base/no base. Give the pros and cons. What might we gain? What will be lost? If we don't want reassignment when a school gets too crowded or too underenrolled, then something's got to give. People either decide that it's worth the trade off or they don't. But it would be good to know up front what the consequence of either decision will be.
I think Mudge was right on in that if Goldman's dealbreaker was the no base issue, then she should have put forth a resolution saying she wanted an option with base schools.
Weren't there several
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 18:04 — danofncWeren't there several attempts by members of the SAC to bring up the base/no base issue that were basically blown off by JT and CM?
I think I remember that happening at the last SAC meeting prior to the resolution stopping work on the zone plan.
I think Mudge was right on
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 18:02 — user12345I think Mudge was right on in that if Goldman's deal breaker was the no base issue, then she should have put forth a resolution saying she wanted an option with base schools.
But does that preempt the public discuss in paragraph one ... maybe she think a guaranteed base is important now but after hearing from all the districts maybe is not as important outside Cary.
Zone Model
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 23:04 — Solon77I agree that much depends on
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 11:21 — jenmanI agree that much depends on how the zones are drawn. One thing that wasn't explained well enough or understood very well is that while there were a larger number of smaller zones, that was for elem school. The zones/regions for middle and high schools would have been larger. From what we've heard from WEP so far, Alves plan calls for 2-4 zones. Those are some HUGE zones for elementary schools. I think even 3 zones would be too big for middle & high. 2 zones is just ridiculous--4 is doable. I think that Tedesco was looking at 4-5 high school/middle school regions/zones/whatever.
I'm not sure how the choices for low income/minority students would have worked out either, and I wish that we'd have a chance to work that out. While I do think that some families would take those options, I don't think that most would. Even with transportation provided. I truly believe that most people would rather be closer to home. There were a lot of interesting options that could have been investigated and I hope that some of them still are.
I don't see a conspiracy in the use of neighborhood and community schools. It is incredibly hard to find the right words to express what is meant. WSCA went around and around on this very issue because the words are politically charged. Just like the word 'diversity' is. They have different meanings to different people, and they have all been co-opted by each 'side' to serve their purposes.
I do agree that a zone model with no base assignments is not what most people had in mind for what would happen. Like I've said before, I'm not completely sold on the idea either, but I do see the merits. It's just a very hard thing to fathom since it is so different from what we are used to. I was willing to let it get fleshed out more before completely making up my mind about it. Like I said, there are merits.
Zones
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 23:40 — Solon77The zones are structured to give choice. The majority of the people will select schools near their home, so a 2 zone system is irrelevant for ES, MS and most likely HS. The issue with JT's zones is that he isolated Southeast Raleigh with little opportunity for those students to go elsewhere if they wanted. While I have not seen the Alves plan, my guess is he will be proposing fewer but larger zones - giving Southeast Raleigh students real opportunity to break out should they choose. Part of providing opportunity for these students is making space for them in the target school. Margiotta calls this quota setting. It is to bad that we have lost 111 months, but many have been saying from day 1 this topic lacked process and transparency. Interestingly enough, Fairfax is changing assignment for two of their zones and the committee is led not by a board member but by a constituent group.
I agree about isolating SE
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 11:18 — jenmanI agree about isolating SE Raleigh as its own zone. I'm not a fan of that either. However, trying to draw the boundaries to include SE Raleigh with nearby areas would unleash a fury like we've not seen yet. Meeker, McLaurin & Morrison especially would be feeling the pressure. Release the Kraken!!
Can't we just go visit
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 11:44 — user12345Can't we just go visit another schools system who has done what people are proposing? With 1200 school systems, I hope that someone is not saying that we are rolling our own and will be the first system ever to try these ideas? With 140k kids and a shrinking budget we can not afford to make mistakes. I think if people could look at say Fairfax, drive up there, talk to friend living there that questions on segregation, neighborhood, community, magnets could all be partially addressed with real examples ... seeing it believing ... if JT is just making this up by the seat of his pants by copying and pasting what he likes from an "assignment" Google search to create some unseen and untested plan I would be real nervous.
IIRC, 3 or 4 BOE members
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 12:19 — magnetParentIIRC, 3 or 4 BOE members took a trip to Fairfax last May. As a matter of fact, I think I remember that Ann McLaurin paid her own way. Not sure about the others.
Anyways, I have never seen any feedback from the board after that trip and what they brought back from there. My guess is they did not like the fact that Fairfax has the "d" word in their assignment policy.
You do realize that if their
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 23:53 — DrActualFactualYou do realize that if their plan allowed for the ED to get system-wide choice and the computer applications were processed thru the system allowing them first-round/initial processing they could be dispersed throughout the system getting the best choice not the last choice. (There would probably have to be a threshhold per school so that they couldn't all select the same school or you could wind up with a racially isolated school if you are processing a racially-concentrated area) .
You do realize that if their
Thu, 11/18/2010 - 10:25 — user12345You do realize that if their plan allowed for the ED to get system-wide choice and the computer applications were processed thru the system allowing them first-round/initial processing
A consideration is that ED kids are the least likely to have transportation to take advantage of choice.
I think what you mention is
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 13:56 — user12345I think what you mention is why RM/JT want to avoid slowing to agree to / clarifying definitions because it exposes their true intentions.
Budget
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 08:57 — HereWeGoMaybe they should have a work session on the budget?
...
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 08:04 — SideburnsIt's funny to watch Goldman act as if she's in charge when in reality she's just getting played.
She reminds me of Tiffany in
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:59 — woodstockShe reminds me of Tiffany in the Luann comic.
eh, she reminds me of Sybil
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:15 — AngelaWeh, she reminds me of Sybil from...well Sybil.
She reminds me of Kate
Sat, 11/20/2010 - 00:13 — CaryCurmudgeonShe reminds me of Kate Gosselin. Ron and Kate Plus
EightSeven.and that was a pretty ugly
Sat, 11/20/2010 - 08:59 — AngelaWand that was a pretty ugly break-up/debacle as well! too bad THIS isn't about reality "TV", this is about educating children!!
Yikes, that means we have a
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:21 — woodstockYikes, that means we have a few more iterations to contend with moving forward. Maybe one of them won't be an arrogant nut job.
well...here's hoping anyway!
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:33 — AngelaWwell...here's hoping anyway!
"You’ve now had a
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 08:01 — CaryCurmudgeonDG is smart, can't quite say that for RM, CM, DP
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 11:08 — Apexcitizen1"Is she really that dumb?".....the answer NO.
She's really quite smart and acting like an elected official listening to her constituents and not a partisan politician. She understands that a politically designed assignment plan is bad business for the citizens of Wake county and the WCPSS. That's why she's stopped the plan. It's funny how the former majority keeps on trying to bring up the Alvarez plan over and over. His plan is a non-issue at this point and nobody on the BoE supports it as a template or a master plan. Prickett sounds like a broken record every time she tries to draw analogies between the Alvarez plan and what the BoE was developing.
So then you, along with
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 11:30 — CaryCurmudgeonSo then you, along with Debra Goldman, believe that all nine board members are committed to dropping diversity-based assignment in favor of community schools?
Which believe in creating
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 14:29 — user12345Which members believe in creating high poverty minority schools? (besides Ron's stupid take no responsibility unintended consequence nonsense) ..
...
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 18:27 — Sideburns"Which members believe in creating high poverty minority schools?"
hmmm ... in all my
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 19:13 — user12345hmmm ... in all my conversations with her, creating high poverty minority schools is not something she wants to do ...
...
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 19:24 — SideburnsHmmm.... how can she avoid it? Unless.... hmmmmm.
That is what five board
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 19:45 — user12345That is what five board members are trying to figure out while the other four sit in the corner and sulk.
...
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 19:56 — SideburnsOh, they've already got it figured out. They just need to completely persuade/influence Goldman -- and it appears they are almost there.
Is Goldman the only member
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 21:12 — user12345Is Goldman the only member who can vote?
McLaurin and Hill must since
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 17:31 — jenmanMcLaurin and Hill must since they didn't do anything to about the schools that are already high poverty minority. ;-p