Should Wake County magnet school families have to apply to advance to a magnet secondary school or should it automatically be done for them by the school system?
Staff is recommending preassigning rising magnet application sixth-graders and ninth-graders from group one magnet schools without making them apply.
The group one magnets are ones where the majority of students are supposed to be magnet applicants and the primary role is to reduce concentrations of poverty at the school. Examples include Hunter, Poe and Washington elementary schools.
But some school board members, notably those who are current and former magnet parents, said at Thursday's student assignment work session they didn't think preassignment was a good idea.
Before the choice plan, magnet application students who wanted to continue to the next level to a magnet middle school or high school had to submit an application. They had the first priority so they pretty much got in.
But with the choice plan's use of feeders, Wake preassigned magnet application students from group one and group two magnets into middle schools and high schools for this school year.
When there was a base, magnet families could opt to leave the magnet program at the end of the school year if they wanted to do so. These families complained that the choice plan made it uncertain they could get into what had been their base.
With the return to a base plan for next year, staff has proposed that magnet families can file a base declaration form to return to their base.
Under the proposed magnet selection priorities, magnet students from the group one schools wouldn't have to apply. Group two magnet students would have priority two after siblings of current students.
During the work session, board member Susan Evans, a former magnet parent, said she preferred the old way when magnet families had priority to apply to continue in the program.
Laura Evans, senior director of growth and planning, responded by saying that most magnet students accepted their preassigned feeders. She said the preassignment saved families from having to take the time to apply and get the seat they'd have anyway under the first priority.
Deputy Superintendent Cathy Moore called it a case of "six of one, half dozen of the other" to either preassign magnet students or have them apply.
“Numbers wise, based on what Laura is saying, it sounds like more don’t have to do something, historically, if you preassign them to their magnet program pathway," Moore said.
Susan Evans said that while the process is better than what was under the choice plan, she's concerned because some magnet pathways aren't as clear as others.
Board member Christine Kushner, a magnet parent, said she's heard from other magnet parents who are confused about the selection priorities. She said they should explicitly say that the group one magnet students are being preassigned.
Board member Jim Martin, a magnet parent, said he defaulted toward having the magnet parent do the extra work of applying.
“Being part of the magnet program, you’re making a choice," Martin said. "You’re asking for something additional. I think you have some responsibility on that front and so I have a tendency to lean toward that the magnet families should have to declare rather than the other way around.
When it’s six of one, half dozen of the other, I’m wondering if we don’t need to say, ‘Look magnet families if this is what you want, step up, you need to go to through the process' rather than saying to the base families, 'You’re the ones who need to go through the process.’ I struggle with this a little bit. I understand the mechanics.
We want clean mechanics, but at some level, just like transportation, it needs to be some level provided, but I know as a magnet parent that I have to recognize that my bus rides are going to be longer. That’s a cost I’m willing to pay to be part of the program."
Laura Evans said they can do it either way.
Susan Evans cited how she had talked to a magnet parent who wasn't paying that much attention and didn't realize the preassigned school only had express transportation. She said that if the parent had to apply and realized that she'd only get express transportation that she might have made a different choice.
Moore responded that the other side is the magnet parent who forgets to apply, loses the seat and asks for it back.
Martin said that there's "no easy answer, but “if you’re getting the privilege, then it strikes me you’re the one who should bear the responsibility.”
Susan Evans said that magnet parents are in the habit of applying to get into a magnet so it makes sense to put the burden on them to apply to continue in the program.
Moore brought up how Wake historically made magnet parents file a form each year indicating if they wanted to stay in the program. She asked if that should do it annually or only require it when a student heads to the next school level.
Susan Evans asked if it was an "administrative nightmare" when parents file each year. Laura Evans answered that staff went through a lot of paperwork each year and only few magnet families opted out.
The discussion ended with no consensus on whether the change should be made to require group one magnet families to apply to move on to middle school and high school.

Comments
I have a horse in this race
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 17:42 — morah_lBut I do think priority to stay on the magnet pathway should be maintained. Otherwise with two kids we could end up with two kids in different schools. Say my eldest doesn't win the lottery again for 6th at Ligon, but then my youngest does. Do you then put the eldest back at Ligon. I know people are very frustrated at the lack of stability in the non-magnet schools. I supported the choice plan because it gave more choice and provided stable feeders for everyone. I'm sorrry that was scrapped. But I think it is a tad mean-spirited to say, if we can't have feeders then take them away from others who do.
I do think magnet parents should have to reapply at each grade transition. That will allow families not already in the system to see how many seats are actually available. If you preassign them and some do want to return to base, it looks like there are fewer seats available. If this happens disproportionately at some magnet middle schools, then the errors in the odds of getting in could really screw up some people's strategy of how to rank schools.
I also have written in the online comments about the new/old assignment plan that they should not give priority to current magnet students who want to switch to a new magnet pathway. If you are IB elementary and you want to stay IB middle, that is fine. But if you are IB elementary and want to switch to GT middle, why should you have any priority over a new family interested in GT for middle. If they eliminate that priority (which wasn't there in the choice plan) that should also free up some spots for people to enter in 6th and 9th.
So....
Wed, 10/10/2012 - 11:57 — Bob_SconceNote that the scenario you describe in your first paragraph applies equally to people currently in the magnet program as it does to people currently outside the magnet program. Your porposed solution, however, only solves the problem for those currently in the magnet program. In other words, if I am outside the magnet program now, and my elder child doesn't get into a magnet school, but my younger child does, I don't have any way to get the elder child in.
Personally, I don't think that's actually a problem that needs to be solved. For either a current magnet or a current non-magnet parent, if the elder child doesn't get into a magnet school, then you have to decide whether to apply for the younger child (and, if the younger child wins the lottery, you have kids at two different schools) or not apply (in which case they're both at the base school). I don't think it's good policy for the older child to get a second bite at the apple when the younger child comes up.
"they should not give
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 21:56 — MingoCreek"they should not give priority to current magnet students who want to switch to a new magnet pathway."
I agree with this statement but I think it is completely unfair to treat group 3 magnets, not mentioned in this article, as second-rate students. Why should their pathways "end" just because they live in rural areas? If they are a magnet student through elementary school, shouldn't they be allowed the same privleges as an inner-city student - the privlege to attend AG Basics Middle Schools and high schools?
With preassignment only given to group 1 and 2, you are treating them "special". They should also be given preassignment places in schools. If their parents want them to attend closer schools, they can opt to go back to base rather than being forced there because they have no other magnet choices.
As the post noted, the
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 22:41 — KeungHui (author)As the post noted, the proposed new priorities would stop preassigning group 2 magnet students. Only the group 1 magnet students would remain preassigned. Click the links in the post to compare last year's and this year's proposed priorities.
I agree. Group 3 magnet
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 22:05 — jenmanI agree. Group 3 magnet students shouldn't be treated any different than other magnet students.
Group 3 magnet students have
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 22:39 — KeungHui (author)Group 3 magnet students have the same proposed priority as the group 2 magnet students. I didn't mention the group 3 magnet students separately because they essentially have the same priority as they did in the choice plan. The difference is that group 2 magnet students weren't preassigned like under the choice plan. They now reside, along with group 3 magnet students, after the preassigned group 1 magnet students and siblings.
Thanks for the clarification
Wed, 10/10/2012 - 10:36 — jenmanThanks for the clarification Keung.
Just to be clear, you mean the 20% magnet kids,
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 22:29 — raleighlauraNot the 80% base kids who go to their neighborhood magnet school so their parents won't send them to st. Something instead, right?
I was thinking of the true
Wed, 10/10/2012 - 10:35 — jenmanI was thinking of the true Group 3 magnets--the old diversity magnets like Zebulon and Wendell. For this year's "lottery", magnet students at Group 3 magnet schools were given a lower priority than magnet students at Group 1 and 2 to go to the next level of magnet school. Well actually, Group 1 and 2 mag students were automatically fed to the next magnet while Group 3 mag students were not. I get confused with the changing plans and priorities sometimes. lol
Also, base students at Group 3 were given no priority to move on to the next level while base at Group 2 were given a priority to move on. They should be treated the same. I think you and I agree that base at any magnet shouldn't receive priorty over any other base students across the county. But why did they treat them differently?
Those base kids are currently at priority 4
Wed, 10/10/2012 - 08:14 — morah_lActually, the *base* kids who want to continue on the magnet pathway associated with their elementary school are currently at priority 4 for MS and HS. I also commented online that I thought that priority should be dropped. But then John Tedesco argued at the last meeting that he thought that priority was important to provide stability for the base kids at the magnets (I think he was referring to group1 base kids). I'm interested in hearing what other people think about this priority. I still think it should be dropped, but could be persuaded that I'm wrong.
Current magnet family - so go ahead and start hating ...
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 17:14 — jenandjonI think assignment should default to the magnet school currently enrolled or the next school in the magnet pathway. Base kids default to the current school or feeder school, why shouldn't magnet.
You have kids that are enrolled in AG classes that are not offered at their base school. So what's your solution when an 8th grader is taking Common Core 1 and its not offered at their base middle school. I can see haivng kids in other magnet programs have to go through the lottery again at the end of a grade span, but the AG program needs to be handled differently.
If a student wants to go back to base, they should have to declare it in the base declaration period.
The old system
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 21:16 — localyankUntil recently, magnet kids at the transition grades had to re-apply, but the priorities depended on where you came from. Siblings and kids from AG basics magnet programs had top priority because of the AG programs in magnet middle schools. Next priority was AG kids from non-AG basics magnet schools, followed by other magnet/AG kids (I don't recall the order) and then all others. Top priority was a lock, some fraction of second priority kids did not get selected depending on the year, and on down. Like you posted, that kept the AG kids on track, and is more-or-less what you suggested, I think.
Keep it simple
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 12:51 — Dove314Use the same rules for magnet students as are used for non-magnet students. Don't guarantee a feeder pattern for one group if you're not guaranteeing the feeder pattern for all.
honestly, it should be fair
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 14:47 — snordoneIf we have to deal with yearly reassignments then magnet parents should have to apply yearly. Fair is fair in my opinion. If we don't know where our kids will be in school 3 years from now then they should have to deal with the same uncertainty. If we get bused to the 5th or 6th most proximate ES then they should not be allowed to go to their neighborhood magnet school.
Exactly! The lottery shouldn't make you a permanent winner.
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 20:42 — raleighlauraMagnet kids should have to reapply at each transition level, just like everyone else, without getting a priority. The program is NOT a willy wonky golden ticket for your family to always have the best of Wake schools for your entire career. Make room for others with a fair, equitable, REAL lottery.
What does that mean with this board?
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 15:27 — FSandYOU"Fair is fair"?
Do you, or anyone else, really think THIS board cares about "fair"? Not going to happen.
As for siblings, I say unless they are of the same age and in the same schools now, tough, get in line for your fleecing like everyone else.
Make it all a lottery
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 09:59 — mnordbergMake all magnets 100% a lottery. So any open spots in any grade are done by lottery unless there is a sibling already at the school. (All spots would be in lottery in K,6th grade, 9th grade as they enter new schools). There should be no priorities given for any special group (low performing node, high performing node, kid from full school, kid from under-utilized school, race, gender, etc). All kids should be treated 100% the same and thrown into a 100% random lottery to get in. Every other option at priorities (outside of sibling) give an unfair advantage to one group or another.
Siblings are a unique group as forcing a parent to have two kids in the same grade span to go to two different schools is wrong.
I agree also and have
Wed, 10/10/2012 - 08:38 — tropicalgirlI agree also and have contacted the board about this. Having a magnet experience through elementary school shouldn't be an automatic in for middle school, thereby depriving someone else of having that experience in middle school who perhaps wasn't able to get in in elementary school.
I agree. Please send an
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 10:22 — jenmanI agree. Please send an email to the board members, Gainey, Student Assignment and the Magnet Office!
Better option:
Tue, 10/09/2012 - 09:42 — Bob_Sconce(1) Are you rising into a school's entry grade and your older sibling will be there next year? If so, then you get priority.
(2) If not, then you're put into a lottery with every other student in the district, and you all get an equal shot of a spot.