WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Debating where to place the new schools

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Things got testy last week as Wake County school board members argued over which schools to approve spending money to design.

As noted in Sunday's North Raleigh News article, the school board voted 6-2  to approve spending $2.4 million to start designing M8 in northwest Raleigh, E20 in northeast Raleigh and Scotts Ridge Elementary in Apex. The vote took place after board members traded barbs over whether those were the right choices.

School board members John Tedesco and Debra Goldman objected to none of the schools on the list being from Southeast Raleigh. They argued that more new schools need to be built there to create the capacity to allow local kids to return under community schools while also preserving spaces for magnet seats.

"If you look at the raw number of seats in that part of the community with all the schools combined, there's not enough seats to allow those kids there and to allow magnet school kids there at the same time," Tedesco said.

During the discussion, Sutton asked Tedesco about the capacity figures in Garner. Garner is in Tedesco's district. Click here for the handout last week with capacity figures.

Tedesco responded by bringing up the capacity figures for Southeast Raleigh, which is in Sutton's district.

"No, I was asking for Garner," Sutton said to Tedesco. "I was wondering if you were as well versed in your own district as you are in mine."

Sutton's remark drew a laugh from the crowd.

"Then I'd suggest you get better versed in yours," Tedesco shot back at Sutton.

"I'm good," Sutton responded to Tedesco.

"You don't want to put schools in yours, that's your loss," Tedesco fired back. "I want to put schools in yours."

One of the reasons Southeast Raleigh didn't make the list is that the district doesn't currently own any additional land there to build new schools. The one new school opening in that area is Walnut Creek Elementary in 2011.

In addition to the magnet school argument, Goldman questioned how they could go ahead with approving the design work before the new assignment model is adopted. She said Wake shouldn't spend the money just because they have it available.

But Tedesco and Goldman ultimately lost on the vote. It was the members of the usual four-person minority faction who provided most of the votes to get it passed.

Goldman had more success in blocking Chris Malone's attempt to modify the resolution to add E25 in Wake Forest to the list. Malone had talked with Don Haydon, chief facilities and operations officer, before the meeting about coming up with additional money for E25, which is in his district.

Goldman objected to Malone bringing his motion to the table without prior discussion by the full board.

"That doesn't make any sense to me," Goldman said of adding the fourth school.

Malone said he was only trying to maximize the board's opportunities.

The vote on Malone's motion was 5-3 against. Deborah Prickett had seconded the motion but later voted no. If she had voted yes, it would have led to a tie with school board chairman Ron Margiotta making the final decision.

Malone said it was "unbelievable" after the voting ended. In addition to him, only Sutton and Kevin Hill had voted yes.

Pending approval of the county commissioners for the design money, the school board will have until this time next year to decide which two schools to build. The $59 million in school construction savings is only enough to cover two elementary schools or M8 and one elementary school.

The school not picked, along with E25, would likely have to wait until the next bond issue for the money to build them.

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Why only 2 schools

Why only 2 schools ? Didn't JT make a claim that ES schools could be built for $18-$20m. 

The current staff estimats

The current staff estimats is $21-25 million per new elementary school. Since M8 is a smaller middle schools they're saying it should be about $32 million.

New High School in Apex

I remember talk about opening a new high school in Apex area (I think it was H7) in 2011/12 or 2012/13.  Where is this school and is it still coming?

No date was ever given for

No date was ever given for that high school. It's part of the list of schools that would be funded by the next bond issue, whenever that gets put before voters.  There was talk about the idea of using some of the $59 million in bond savings but it wouldn't be enough to cover the whole cost of construction. Staff didn't back the idea of spending money to start construction without having all the funding in place.

"build it" and they will get out of our neighborhood.

 

During the discussion, Sutton asked Tedesco about the capacity figures in Garner. Garner is in Tedesco's district. Click here for the handout last week with capacity figures. Tedesco responded by bringing up the capacity figures for Southeast Raleigh, which is in Sutton's district. "No, I was asking for Garner," Sutton said to Tedesco. "I was wondering if you were as well versed in your own district as you are in mine." Sutton's remark drew a laugh from the crowd. "Then I'd suggest you get better versed in yours," Tedesco shot back at Sutton. "I'm good," Sutton responded to Tedesco. "You don't want to put schools in yours, that's your loss," Tedesco fired back. "I want to put schools in yours."
 
So to get the black kids back into their neighborhood and out of John's, he needs to build schools there first.

...

What a shame that previous Board members (maybe Sutton too?) didn't think some children and families were worthy of having a neighborhood school. They only deserved a long bus ride.

 

See, I don' think it is a

See, I don' think it is a long bus ride from SE to Garner .... some might think they are part of the same community school area .... you have to build the school where the kids are not where you want to keep the Blacks located.

Do you know for a fact that

Do you know for a fact that the district didn't look into buying land/building schools in those areas?

When Walnut Creek opens, it

When Walnut Creek opens, it will be the second elementary school opened in Southeast Raleigh within the past 40 years. The other recent one was Barwell Road.  One side will say that's because growth hasn't been as great in that area until recently. Others will say putting more new schools there would have impacted the diversity policy.

Moore Square worth mentioning

Don't forget the middle school too - Moore Square built in the "last 40 years".  Seats were not needed downtown, in fact some downtown schools were closed or reallocated in the last 20 years. Would it have made sense to build where there was not growth instead of where there was?  It had nothing to do with the diversity policy.  We are 5 years behind in building schools, is all. 1999 failed bond hurt us badly.

East Garner is basically a

East Garner is basically a SE Raleigh school.

The closest dense population to that school (multiple neighborhoods) is on Rock Quarry Road.

I think someone would be

I think someone would be slaughtered building a new school in SE just because other areas got a new school ... and than have it sit under capacity waiting for the growth to find the area.  I am guessing that new school where placed where the growth was not where someone wanted it to be (e.g. SE).  Barwell belongs to John and is only 74% of capacity.

Slaughtered for having it sit under capacity waiting for growth?

Like many of the MYR schools? Is that why Patti and Lori quit, to avoid the slaughter?

Yes, just genius I tell you.

How it unfolded

 Malone attempted to put in E25 -  as chair of the Facilities committee he knew there was $700K in savings with the Lacy redo not yet reallocated. (E25 is the elementary land on the Franklin/Wake County line) Goldman pitched a fit and questioned Haydon on the unfolding of the inclusion, and why she didn't know about this. (Could this be the real reason behind the disbanding of the standing committees? The 5 can't trust each other?) This put Haydon in between board members – what could he say?  Not much.  Including E25 was voted down, and Malone turned to Prickett and stated quite loudly - "I'm p*ss*d."  I guess the tapes should be rated at least PG now.

Malone indeed attempted to slide in "his school" into design phase. Goldman then refused to read a note Malone passed her, and even leaned away from him, towards Margiotta, ignoring Malone for the rest of the meeting, while Malone visibly pouted. 

With only enough construction savings to build two schools, and with more growth projected in Apex and between North Raleigh and Wake Forest, and with the capacity at Carroll not being utilized, (300 empty seats +/-), and Leesville Middle losing seats to the reversal to traditional calendar, M8 will be last on the list and built with the next bond money - the bond Margiotta said in the work session under his breath will be not for 3 or 4 more years, referencing the next bond’s potential failure. This leads me to a very good question – if this SA Plan does not fully utilize magnet seats downtown due to parents’ concerns about them becoming high poverty, necessitating more schools to be built in the ‘burbs, will this county vote that bond in?   

Blue. Margiotta knows that

Blue. Margiotta knows that when the voters of this county see the inefficiencies that are being created by the new boards SA plan they will NOT vote for a new bond issue. Is this maybe what he really wants??

Oh Zande!

Oh Zande!  I think you are on to something!  Then, his private schools will flourish!

Well, I hope that when the

Well, I hope that when the time comes for a bond, that the Friends of Diversity, WEP, Meeker/Schaefer, Goodmon, Goodnight and the rest will line up another PR campaign in support.  I'd hate to think they have lost interest in funding our schools just because things aren't being done the way they prefer.  The last bond passed by one percentage point, and the new board won an overwhelming number of votes cast in the last election; Many of these same people are the ones who show up to vote on bonds.

I say let's look at how much

I say let's look at how much the scores / graduation rate increase under this new leadership with their new plan before supporting a bond.  We can make this a referendum on their leadership and direction.  Maybe they can push it through 5/4.

?

Isn't that cutting off your nose to spite your face?

I supported the last bond (and took a bit of heat for it here) even though I disliked the previous board's policies.  Harming the entire district just because you don't like the people running it punishes the wrong people.

People here have already

Your buddies have already said this is the worst system in the country ... not sure why I want support it anymore now that my kids are out and I join 70% without kids in school ... I fought against conservatives for years to get bonds passed and not sure why now that they are in control I want to help them ... they say there is so much waste in the system that new taxes are not needed ... the new zones will save a bundle on transportation costs ... so again no more money needed ....I say good, we don't need a bond ... during these tough times, think MYR first before increasing taxes ...again, I say lets make this a referendum on their leadership and plans .... They have done what they want 5/4 so the five can do a bond themselves.

Who said that?

Who said that, and who are my buddies?   There are lots of districts that are far worse than WCPSS -- I can always trot out Detroit if I need an extreme example.

Which is exactly what most

Which is exactly what most of your allies like CC and Jenman did.  Luckily, the bond passed despite their efforts to harm the system.

Absolutely - good post.

Absolutely - good post.

the majority is just too upset

over losing those 6-8 hour PLTs. There's no way they'll support future bonds. They would rather "harm the system".

To Vote against

They showed up to vote against the bond as did Ron.  It seems Ron was ok in voting against the bond when things were not going his way.  It will be interesting to see if Civitas, Locke, and AFP will line up behind a bond issue this time. 

I think the last bond would

I think the last bond would have passed much more easily if not for the threat of MYR.  My point was that not many people vote in local elections (as board critics like to point out), so many of the  voters who propelled the new majority into office will vote again when or if they request a bond.

Ron was against the bond because of MYR and but more for the fiscal (ie. not policy) problems he saw in the system.  MYR is dead, and this board is making some progress at reducing the bureaucratic fiscal waste.  I would still like to see them invite a full outside audit of school expenditures.  Seems like they could get an audit in motion pretty easily.

The FOWC'ers glowed about how important it is to invest in education, how our county cannot grow and prosper without building those "world-class" soon.  Of course, this was before their web site went dormant two days after the vote. 

As to Civitas and the rest, you're comparing them toWEP?  I thought WEP as a non-partisan group focused on education? 

Will be interesting to see what Wake Up Wake County does.  Stan Norwalk is still a playa.  They came out huge in support of the last bond.  What will they do now than Stan has his knickers in a knot?

Some Progress

this board is making some progress at reducing the bureaucratic fiscal waste. 

I guess we don't wear the same glasses. 

 

 

"so many of the  voters who

"so many of the  voters who propelled the new majority into office will vote again when or if they request a bond."

Ahh, but that was only 4 of the 9 districts.  Will there be enough support county-wide for this bond?  Is this truely what the majority of voters want?

I don't think it will pass

I believe the past decisions that were made from previous boards, along with all the drama that is now being created from Billy and his wannaB's, will result in its defeat.

I hear...

Black helicopters...Any other devious theories you would like to make up?

Why else

Why else would Margiotta ask the assignment committee to make it a priority to explore making the magnets year round in order to create more seats. 

...

"... if this SA Plan does not fully utilize magnet seats downtown due to parents’ concerns about them becoming high poverty..."

From what I understand, magnet parents send their children to magnet schools because of their diversity. Why would they not continue to do so?

You know why

Because there is a high poverty tipping point. What is that number?  We'll see when parents choose.

"if this SA Plan does not

"if this SA Plan does not fully utilize magnet seats downtown due to parents’ concerns about them becoming high poverty"

So we should continue to deny access to our richest curricula to students because they are economically disadvantaged?  Sounds discriminatory to me, especially when Mr. Barbir continues to point out that there is a strong correlation between race and economic status.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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