Dana Cope is showing how serious he is about keeping his kids at Lacy Elementary School.
Cope has put his Inside-the-Beltline home for sale so he can look for a new place that's still in Lacy's attendance area. Cope's neighborhood, near Glen Eden Drive, is being reassigned to help reduce crowding at Lacy and reduce the percentage of low-income students at Stough Elementary.
Cope said he realizes he'll probably take a hit because he only purchased the home a year ago. Cope is chairman of the Children's PAC and executive director of the State Employees Association of N.C.
"We don't want to put our kids in a less advantageous environment," Cope said.
Cope said several other people in the neighborhood have put their homes for sale because they don't want to attend Stough.
Cope said he wants to find a new home in Lacy's area because he's committed to sending his children to a public school.
In the meantime, Cope said the Children's PAC is still keeping active. He said the group hasn't had much to say publicly because the candidate filing period hasn't begun.
Cope said the group has been soliciting people to run for school board.
Comments
I agree … I don’t why
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 19:17 — jenmanI agree … I don’t why the east side allows the west side to have so much power and clout.
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Because the eastern part of the county doesn't have the money. Wake Ed Partnership and other business leaders trying to attract companies here don't care what Eastern Wake schools look like. Companies looking to do business in Raleigh or RTP don't even know that Zebulon or Wendell exist, let alone that they are part of this school system. As long as WCPSS keeps central Raleigh schools looking good, that is all that matters. E Wake can complain all they want but it won't matter.
As for the new 'cookie cutter' homes that you obviously disdain so much, there are many different reasons why people move into those neighborhoods. And most of those reasons don't involve elitism.
"As for the new 'cookie
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 19:40 — user1234"Zebulon or Wendell " ?? they are in Wake Co.? :-)
"As for the new 'cookie cutter' homes that you obviously disdain so much, there are many different reasons why people move into those neighborhoods. And most of those reasons don't involve elitism. "
I did not mean to infer they were elite just that they have never had to wait on anything. Everything was new the day they moved in and they come think "it it is all about them".
user1234-- “Under the
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 13:35 — jenmanuser1234--
“Under the current BOE policies we already have plenty of schools in the 50+% F&R range. “
That is why we need to address the problem now and stop schools from getting to the extremes of very rich and very poor. ---------------------------------------------------------------
These schools are over 50% under the current plan. WCPSS is doing NOTHING to help these schools. A few of the over 50% F&R schools are magnets in SE Raleigh, but the majority are not. WCPSS has all but forgotten about Eastern Wake County. They've basically given up on them. The two solutions for those schools have been 1)wait for 540 to bring higher income residential growth (this was in last year's assignment plan) and 2) reduce the number of magnet seats available to these children under the 'remaining 10% rule'.
The current assignment policies are designed to help central Raleigh schools and they do a good job at it. WCPSS makes sure that none of the downtown/SE Raleigh schools are too poor or racially segregated. But more importantly, they have to make sure that ITB schools (north/west of Capital) don't have too many poor black kids in them. Otherwise the remaining base parents will leave for the suburbs or private/charter options.
"Newbies have a new school, new HVAC, new teachers and parents, lots of advanced course. Newbie have websites, PACs, >$100k PTAs, buy more teachers, assistant, playground equipment and want a say in how things operate for their donation. "
Exactly what newbies are you talking about? Lacy has a foundation and more 'extras' paid for by parents than most any other school in the county but they aren't newbies. Actually, Lacy is the only school I know of that pays for more teachers with 'outside' money.
Who do you consider to be a newbie? Anybody moving into the area within the past 5-10 years? Anybody moving into a certain geographic area? I would say that any 'newbies' moving into Eastern Wake County or Garner are getting the shaft when it comes to schools, even if they are attending a newer one.
“These schools are over
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 18:29 — user1234“These schools are over 50% under the current plan. WCPSS is doing NOTHING to help these schools. A few of the over 50% F&R schools are magnets inSE Raleigh , but the majority are not. WCPSS has all but forgotten about Eastern Wake County
I agree … I don’t why the east side allows the west side to have so much power and clout. It’s good for me personally since I live on the west side but one day they are going to wake up and realized what has happened.
“But more importantly, they have to make sure that ITB schools (north/west of Capital) don't have too many poor black kids in them. Otherwise the remaining base parents will leave for the suburbs or private/charter options. “
I can understand where powerful business and political interests would want some stability and not start a “white flight”.
“Exactly what newbies are you talking about? “
Sorry, I was too general and vague … I think of newbies as people who moved into cookie cutter homes along Hwy 55.Cary Cary
“I would say that any 'newbies' moving intoEastern Wake County
I agree and have not understood why they have not rebelled yet?
Energy
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 22:34 — SDR256Lots of us have been through these terribly emotional, timesucking transitions called 'reassignments'. We have now banded together from across Wake County - Democrats, Republicans, Unaffiliated, Libertarians and formerly politically apathetic - to fight for a school board that will STOP DOING THIS TO WAKE FAMILIES.
Stough, Lacy, Leesville, Davis Drive, Penny Road, Broughton, Apex High, Cary High.. the list goes on and on and on of families just like yours who have fought and fought about their own individual situation. Lots of energy blogging, gathering data, writing letters - on just one slice of the overall problem.
Unless we put a stop to this school board's failed and painful policies there is nothing to stop them from deciding next year to assign more students from Stough to Lacy AND from Lacy to Stough. They tried to do it with Cary High/Apex High - buses passing each other on the highway - literally.
Please join us at the WSCA meeting Thursday, 6pm Carolina BBQ in Garner to put a stop to this madness - on a macro level.
Simple Solution
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 08:12 — user1234To me, this is simple .... if the BOE would just built a new school and let it fill naturally it would not put stress on all the surrounding schools. Today, a new school causes a domino effect as kids "slush" back and forth across the country causing hundreds of reassignments. So, you open a HS and fill it with 9th graders who progress grade by grade. Surrounding schools are a little less crowded. Doing that cost more than playing musical chairs to fill every seat but it is less disruptive.
I am curious...
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 23:15 — StoughParentsI am curious ... what exactly are you suggesting is the solution?
Neighborhood Schools? How would that really work? It is simply not statistically possible for everyone to go to their closest schools. Not to mention, it will devastate some schools when F&R rates are 50-80% or higher and all the resources in the world will not make up for that.
Or is this really about vouchers? Great - let's take all the active and engaged parents out of the school system and leave everyone else in WCPSS. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Seriously, I am curious. Do you have some other option that makes sense? Don't hold back - I would love details. I can't see how there is any panacea for a school system like ours, but would love to hear if you have discovered one.
All this glib talk like we will get reassigned every year is just ridiculous. Lacy nodes have not been reassigned in, what, 10-20 years? Stough nodes were only reassigned to realign the populations for the new Brier Creek school and to address the growth ITB near Lacy. Prior to that - what, 10 years ago? This would happen no matter what. Populations shift, that is normal in any urban area. No more, no less.
Creative combination
Fri, 04/17/2009 - 00:24 — SDR256One of the reasons that WSCA is a cross county reach out is to understand - as in meet each other and actually talk about - what the challenges are across the county. We're not pretending to be magicians or to have all the answers. What we DO know is that the current BoE is not listening to parents.
We also know that there are certain glimmers of hope out there, like the KIPP schools, that we would like our BoE candidates to consider. But in the end, it is the BoE who must listen to what the constituents want, and then be informed and passionate enough to pursue the right combination. BTW, the current BoE didn't want to hear anything about the KIPP schools, even though they are phenomenally successful and less expensive than WCPSS currently spends per student. Might make them look wrong, afterall.
As for glib talk, who do you mean by "we"? Are you basing your comments on your own experience? That would be a mistake. F&R students are reassigned more than any other group. They are the ones who are shipped like sacks of potatoes from one different school to a different different school year after year. C'mon out and speak to some of your children's classmates around this 700 square mile county. You might meet my neighbor whose child, now in high school, has been assigned to eight different schools. They never left their house. Another story: five schools in five years. These are common stories. So, where have you been living? Under a rock or inside the beltline (ahem! - exactly)
Yeah, private school looks really good under those conditions. Might be eating a lot of hamburger helper, but might be worth it. No easy decisions out there, as said my other friend who has decided to move back to Canada now that his child is school age. They want stability you see, and be able to plan where their children will attend school. Can't do that in Wake unless you pay for it. We are all just scrambling to try and find the best thing for our child(ren) first, and then fix this godforsaken system so that WCPSS doesn't completely poison the well.
I Appreciate Your Point of View, but.....
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 09:13 — JanisTangoI do appreciate your point of view, but to say the if we have neighborhood schools or community schools that there would be high F&R schools and non high F&R schools is something I would like to have facts back up. I think I lot of us, believe that is the case, but to be honest, I don't believe anyone has ever figured out if that is necessarily true. To say schools wouldn't have diversity is crazy. I guess the debate is what percentage. I would love to get ahold of the data to see what the numbers would truly be. To me if one school has 10% F&R and another has 38% that is not necessarily a problem. My kids today go to a school with 39% and it's a wonderful school. I would like this BOE to look at the actual numbers of a neighborhood or community plan and then we can debate the facts. I would also ask you to believe some of the things that the opposing side is saying. My son's friend has been reassigned three times in four years and he's only in 3rd grade. What about stability for him? These types of reassignment do happen and to say it's not the case is naive. Just because it might not happen at Stough and Lacy doesn't mean it doesn't happen in other areas. I know of another neighborhood that was reassigned away from their neighborhood school and then they were reassigned back the next year. That is the kind of insanity that needs to stop in this process. I'm also concerned with the apathy and anger this process has created with the parents. I know of a whole neighborhood that is assigned to our ES school and only 2 of out 20 families send their kids. They got sick of the reassignment process and a lot of them are nowprivate, magnet, charter, or home schooled. That to me is a problem. The parents I know from that neighborhood are wonderful parents that would love to be back in the WCPSS, but they are sick of the constant turmoil the WCPSS has created for their families. They felt they had no choice, but to get out!
How about community
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 17:34 — FalcHow about community? I agree with you JanisTango about there being different definitions of “neighborhood.” When I think of “neighborhood”, I think of a relatively small area – maybe subdivision or an area that is within easy walking distance. When I think of community, I think of a larger area to which there is still a sense of connection. For many people that community may be their town or, if unincorporated, the XX watershed area or township, volunteer fire district, etc. I too would like to see some thought put into could there be a workable solution between only the closest school and the fourth, fifth or tenth school in distance (by distance I mean travel time, not as the crow flies)? Yes, yes XX% live within whatever miles, but what about the X% that do not or are reassigned multiple times – what are they expendable front-line fodder?
Go look
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 13:27 — supportwcpssat the F&R graph of Wake County. Economic diversity with completely neighborhood schools is impossible.
Please Supply The Link
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 14:29 — JanisTangoPlease supply the link. I would be curious what this 'graph' shows. Also I think it's important to define neighborhood and community schools. I think we all have an idea in mind what those are, but it's never really been defined. My intrepretation is I would go to a school within a reasonable distance from my home. For example close to my home I have elementary schools that are 1 mile, 3 miles, 5 miles and 7 miles from my home. I happen to be assigned to the 7 miles from my home for ES and IMO that is reasonable. For HS we have schools that are 3 miles, 7 miles and 17 miles from our home. They wanted to assign us to the 17 miles away school because they needed our 'NUMBERS'. That is unacceptable. I don't ever go to that part of town because it's not in close proximity to 'my' community. The reason being is they want to ship kids to the HS in our community 3 miles away from areas that are 17-20 miles away and kick us out. Again unacceptable!
There's a F&R distribution map is in the Annual Report
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 14:55 — FalcYou can use the link below and open the Annual Report. The map should be on page 67. (I assume this is the one to which 'support' was refering.) The report and demographics webpage have a lot more information that you may be interested in seeing.
http://www.wcpss.net/demographics/
A few comments.....
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 09:03 — SouthEastWakeMomNeighborhood Schools? How would that really work? It is simply not statistically possible for everyone to go to their closest schools. Not to mention, it will devastate some schools when F&R rates are 50-80% or higher and all the resources in the world will not make up for that.
Under the current BOE policies we already have plenty of schools in the 50+% F&R range. There are 19 elementary schools listed on Jenman's blog Voice for Equity ( http://voiceforequity.blogspot.com/ ) alone. I read somewhere in the coverage of the recent Diversity conference that prior to the implementation of Policy 6200 - there were 6 schools in Wake County that exceeded 40% - 50%
Or is this really about vouchers? Great - let's take all the active and engaged parents out of the school system and leave everyone else in WCPSS. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Middle class flight is already well underway in Wake County without vouchers. I believe it's 20% of Wake County children are educated outside of the public school system - twice the national average.
All this glib talk like we will get reassigned every year is just ridiculous. Lacy nodes have not been reassigned in, what, 10-20 years? Stough nodes were only reassigned to realign the populations for the new Brier Creek school and to address the growth ITB near Lacy. Prior to that - what, 10 years ago? This would happen no matter what. Populations shift, that is normal in any urban area. No more, no less.
I think that the parents in Western Wake and SE Raleigh might beg to differ with your view of how often their kids are reassigned. I assure you it's much more frequent than 10 - 20 years and it's not just about growth in Western Wake, it's about hiding low test scores. Take a look at the Base node map for East Cary Middle and tell me how it makes any sense - you can find it here - http://wwwc.wcpss.net/maps/WCPSS_RAP_2011_APPROVED_20090202_SCHOOLMAP_402_BAS.pdf
Our high school was reassigned in this last go round from West Lake to Garner. It was about test scores because the F&R percentages at the two schools barely shifted and the number of students at the two schools barely shifted.
IMHO, this BOE(eR) treats the ITB schools very differently from how they treat the Rim and OTB schools.
White Flight is false
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 13:25 — supportwcpssThis white flight claim you all talk about with respect to Wake County is BS. There is a direct correlation between income and sending kids to private school. While over all 11% of the country send their kids to private schools I found the following on capenet.org.
"families with annual incomes of $100,000 or more, 80 percent (6.4
million) attend public schools and 20 percent (1.6 million) attend
private schools."
I've looked on multiple websites which put an estimate of 25% of our households at or above the 100K level.
So to me, these numbers align with the norm in this country and it's a fact that higher income families are more inclined to put their kids in private schools.
Also, as a country private school enrollment has not skyrocketed but has actually decreased.
"Private school enrollment grew more slowly than public school
enrollment from 1985 to 2007, rising 11 percent, from 5.6 million to
6.2 million. As a result, the percentage of students enrolled in
private schools declined from 12.4 percent in 1985 to 11.0 percent in
2007."
Don't put words in my mouth (or fingertips)....
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 17:14 — SouthEastWakeMomThis white flight claim you all talk about with respect to Wake County is BS.
I said middle class flight with no reference to race or ethnic group.
As you pointed out, the ability/desire to go private aligns to income. I say it aligns REGARDLESS of race or ethnic group - and in some cases income - there are families who make less than $100k that send their kids to private schools. In areas that I've lived in, I found that families go private, for the most part, only if they find the local public schools are inadequate.
First off
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 17:25 — supportwcpss'White flight' is the generic term used for the same behavior and words that I have heard come out of Ronny's mouth on multiple occasions.
Second of all, I think your conclusion regarding why people go private has no facts or data except your personal opinion. Personally, I think that is ludicrous connection.
Either SouthEastWakeMom
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 18:04 — Falcand I know the same people, which I doubt, or it is not just her personal opinion.
I have directly heard of/overheard situations where people have left the public system because they feel they have been jerked around by the system or are dissatisfied with the level of education. Many others have said they would leave if they could afford to and still save for college -- not because they live in some gated whatever or are rich or are racist or don't want their kid with that kid, yadda yadda but just because they are tired of being jerked around, tired of the unequal treatment, tired of having their child treated as a pawn and tired of the instability.
Those that think WCPSS is great can continue to stick their heads in the sand about the frustration level of those that do not feel the same way, but it will not change it or make it not true.
I disagree/ Parents are NOT sticking their heads in the sand
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 20:08 — duvalThose that think WCPSS is great can continue to stick their heads in
the sand about the frustration level of those that do not feel the same
way, but it will not change it or make it not true.
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I do not think people are sticking their heads in the sand. They are satisfied with the education that their child is receiving. Many of us are satisfied with the education our children are recieving. That is why we continue to send our children to the public schools.
However, many of us want to see our overall educational system improve. That is why we are talking on this blog. We want to make the changes that will bring a positive outcome to not only our children, but to all children of Wake County.
Think you may have misunderstood
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 23:13 — FalcSorry, I guess I should have been more clear.
I was not refering to Parents who are satisfied with the education that their child is receiving but want to make changes as sticking their heads in the sand.
I was refering to supportwcpss disputing that middle class families here have chosen private due to dissatisfaction with the impact the assignment policies have had on them/concern over continued instability in the future if they were in public.
“Under the current BOE
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 09:40 — user1234“Under the current BOE policies we already have plenty of schools in the 50+% F&R range. “
That is why we need to address the problem now and stop schools from getting to the extremes of very rich and very poor.
“Middle class flight is already well underway inWake County Wake County
We still have a middle class? I think you will find much of that is due to the active homeschool community driven by PhD moms and dad who can teach much faster at home and religious parents who don’t like the morale accepted in public schools. As the economy collapses many more people will question the value of >$20k cost of private education.
“IMHO, this BOE(eR) treats the ITB schools very differently from how they treat the Rim and OTB”
Probably … it is all about power and who has it …
It's really very simple
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 05:17 — Dadof3Not to interupt your soliloquy masquerading as a question, but the solution is simple:
Elect school board members that puts parents and student first.
"All this glib talk like we will get reassigned every year is just ridiculous" The glib sword cuts both ways. You shouldn't be so glib for the families that are reassigned.
There is no better hope for our future than the expressions and actions of the zealous love a parent has for her child.
Dad ... new blood is good
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 08:17 — user1234Dad ... new blood is good but the question was specifics. "Elect me because I am new" without knowing what will happen except that it will be different is not reassuring. Personally, I think Education should come first not parrents. Can you imagine coaching a football team and looking in the stands all the time to see what the parents want?
Exactly - looking for
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 08:29 — StoughParentsExactly - looking for specifics. I gave examples to demonstrate that casual claims like 'neighborhood schools' is just not enough to describe a system that would work better.
As for User - yes! Education first! We just might disagree on how to get there, but that is for a much longer discussion.
BTW, your idea about new schools is intersting, but does not address urban growth/contraction, which also happens naturally without any construction at all. It also begs for extra resouces to cover the overhead of the school. A school has to be near capacity to cover overhead, before it can start to do all the extra things we love. Which would be fine (zero sum game) if all the growth was in one area and resources just had to be shifted to a school or two, but that is not the case. Pockets of populations pop up everywhere and, even over time, those populations might not support an entire school.
Also, in the case of Brier Creek, it wasn't just growth in the BC area. It was more like a population wave - students from Lacy to Stough, Stough to Brier Creek. Not as simple as you suggest.
(Food for thought, none of the above intended to be negative. Nor was the first note. I genuinely want to know what this group thinks is the solution.)
People who live in a new
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 14:17 — user1234People who live in a new community probably don’t understand the concerns of people who live in mixed income older communities.. Old/Mix – worry about reassignments that move a school >40% F&R, which is a node by node situation, there is not massive population shift just how the nodes are assemble to build the school, that influences the kind of kids and parents you get and how involved they will be, it influences the teacher that want to be part of the school, the number and level of course offered and unfortunately drive school pride by athlete population. Newbies have a new school, new HVAC, new teachers and parents, lots of advanced course … they could careless about F&R% since it is less than 10% … and no one they associate with and it does not affect the advanced classes being offered since the population is so small. Newbie have websites, PACs, >$100k PTAs, buy more teachers, assistant, playground equipment and want a say in how things operate for their donation.
So, for me, old/mix, I want stability like newbie but I want my fair share of the resources – renovation, HVAC, auditorium, ball fields, top teachers, advanced courses …. I don’t think you should have to live in an expensive neighborhood to have a great public school … you should not have to have a website, PAC, 501c, spouse at the TV station, etc. to get the same education …. On MYR … I have never been affects and stay on the sidelines because I don’t know enough … it seems like it causes a lot of pain …
So, for me having a BOE who is going to put everyone in the school closest to them is not all I want to hear. It is more than where my child sits. It is about fairness, education, ALL children, cost effective, innovation, results.
Hard as some people have
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 08:57 — CaryCurmudgeonHard as some people have tried to frame it, this election is not about "diversity vs. anti-diversity." And there is no "one size fits all" silver bullet to fix all the problems in Wake County schools. This is where listening to parents comes in, I don't buy the football team analogy. There are many parts of the county where neighborhood schools make sense and should be allowed to thrive. I keep hearing about the exceptions where schools are located within less than a mile of each other. Perhaps if our school board started building schools where they were actually needed, neighborhood schools could become a reality for more students. Mandatory YR schools don't make sense anywhere in the county. YR's are great, but MYR has been a failure resulting in lower enrollment and increased cost per student seat. At the same time there are parents who beg for admission to YR programs, but are denied. Job one is to make YR voluntary, and to unconvert some of the existing MYR's to increase enrollment. NC testing standards are a joke, and allow WCPSS to avoid any meaningful comparison of academic performance with school systems outside of NC (which happens to rank 44th in the nation). We need a board that will push for real standardized tests, we cannot afford not to know how competitive our children are with the rest of the country. Parents have been asking for these things for a long time, and the school board has consistently ignored them. Seems to me that listening to parents might not be such a bad idea about now.
Dana is not influencing his
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 22:19 — parentDana is not influencing his neighbors, we all wanted our children to ramain at Lacy before he ever came on the scene. Most of us not grandfathered were in this mess 3 years ago and I visited Stough then and again this year. It is not the school that Lacy is and it does not have the leadership that Lacy does. I wish them well, but unfortunately a few kids from Lacy won't change anything. Since being reassigned, I have much less desire to get involved. Why should I, when my child can be moved at anytime. I think alot of us feel this way. I wish the BOE promoted pride of ownership in a school, but instead their policies cause good families to just not care anymore.
Sorry you feel this way...
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 23:25 — StoughParentsSo sorry to hear that you feel this way, it is a shame. Engaged parents are critical to the success of any school. It is surprising that you would not want to get involved in your child's school. It is clear that you are hurting - but it will not help your child to not be involved. But pain is a funny thing that can cloud your vision and I completely get that on all levels.
The BOE struggles with reassignment more than any of us could imagine. I watched them work through this process and if there would have been any justification for leaving these nodes at Lacy, they would have done it. It was simply a matter of fact that the nodes needed to be reassigned to balance the capacity. The three years that have passed since the first time they tried to do this admittedly hurt our scores, but it did not hurt our spirit, our resources, or (most of) our teachers (some had to leave when we lost 100+ students all at once - not enough resources to keep them - but new teachers have come on board and they are great).
Clearly there is nothing more to say, you have made up your mind. But if you want to reach out and get involved, you will always be welcomed. No one will ever hold this against you - your pain is understandable. Sincerely.
Per a BOE member, if our
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 08:40 — parentPer a BOE member, if our representative had stood up for us, we had the votes to stay at Lacy. Additionally, our state representative told Lacy parents that Stough lobbied for 2 years to get us, specifically requesting the passion of the Lacy parents. You misunderstand, I will do anything to help my kids, but not a school where parents asked for some child other than their own to be uprooted. And again for the last time, I would not care if Stough was the best school in Wake Co. I want my kids at the school they have been going to with their friends and neighbors where we have a sense of community. Stough is not far away, but it is not my school. The families at my school feel such ownership and passion that they raised over 100K last year to pay for extra resources. A good majority of these resources went to help LI kids. Wouldn't it be great if there was stability in the schools and everyone felt the ownership that would allow them to put their heart and soul into a school?
I applaud the Lacy parents who
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 17:20 — mosshave made the school's foundation what it is. I do remember when Lacy was not the school it is today, and was even encouraged at one time to send my child there, as there were plenty of open spots. However, I do want to say that Stough parents have and still do "felt (feel) the ownership that would allow them to put their heart and soul into a school?" Stough certainly has parents who have a strong ownership in the school. Why else would they have been asking for help from the BOE and recruiting within their nodes for the past 3 years? At this time, Stough can not put $100,000 in a foundation account unless someone wills the funds to the PTA! It is hard to raise that kind of money when almost half of the population is low income, and are just trying to pay their monthly bills. It is much easier to achieve that kind of fundraising when a school's population of low income is half that, and the rest of the school's population is probably above the Wake County average income. In any event, I think the views of a lot of Stough's parents are misunderstood by "some" Lacy families (I don't want to generalize). Having to leave a school that is: 1. brand new (with the renovation); and, 2. obviously a loved school, is and would be difficult. However, other schools, including Stough, LRES, Hilburn, York, and many, many others, have a parent base who are committed, and who feel an ownership. Otherwise, parents at these schools would not have fought and continue to fight so hard to have the best school that there can be.
I am sincerely sorry you
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 15:48 — StoughParentsI am sincerely sorry you believe these things, but they are very much untrue. I don't think anything I can say will make you feel better about leaving Lacy, but it does hurt everyone a bit when the reasoning behind it is not clear, so I will still offer up the following information:
First, no one asked for these particular students. I appreciate that it feels very personal, but it is not. Yes, Stough parents asked for the empty seats to be filled by stable nodes, rather than the transitional populations we have had the past three years. Yes, some probably noted that Lacy's listed capacity was way over capacity. But, no one asked for your child or your particular neighborhood.
I am surprised your rep would say that it was a two year effort, that would be news to me. As far as I can tell, this particular effort started when the first reassignment plan came out in the fall. The new node part was actually secondary to the first request, which was simply to stop the revolving door of transitional students. That said, Stough families have certainly asked for help EVERY year since the failed plan three years ago. You would have too if you had seen the writing on the wall as our families did. We were left undercapacity from the Brier Creek move and the band-aid fixes weren't working.
Lastly, I know with 100% conviction that your Board member did everything she could to represent your neighborhood. If there was a shred of evidence to support leaving the nodes there, she would have done it. What that member you refer to might have meant is that the members tend to look to the 'affected' board member for guidance when they go to vote. Your member ultimately went with the only reasonable solution for the community as a whole. (OR, trying not to be cynical, that Board member who told you that might have been trying to get you upset to stir up controversy for the upcoming election, but I hope that is not the case.)
I agree that stability is important and we should keep schools as stable as possible. That said, reassignments for growth/contraction are normal and have to be done everywhere. Where WCPSS seems to fall down is that they have very short term plans for these reassignments. It would be nice if they were able to forecast accurately enough so that no child is transitioned except as they enter a new school - elem, middle, and high. I think the BOE tried to get close to that with the 3-year plan and with grandfathering, but maybe it can be done better somehow.
There are endless possibilities at Stough. No, there is no Foundation now, for example, but there can be. We have parents who have the brains, resources, and courage to do great things. With a solid base, we can focus on these things instead of on reassignment.
As for your fear of getting reassigned again - I do want to remind you that it happens once every 10+ years in these neighborhoods and is very unlikely to happen to your family. I am aware that other schools have much more tumultuous transitions, but ours are not those schools. Not sure if that is good news to your or bad news, but I want to put that out there.
We hope you will find the ownership and commitment to Stough over time - certainly not expected to happen over night. But thanks at least for 'talking' on here.
Feeling A Connection To Our Schools
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 13:09 — Lisa_BHey Parent:
Your reasoning is all too familiar, but unfortunately it's easier for some to twist words into being a negative against your "newly assigned school". It's easier for WCPSS to pit parent vs. parent in order to take the attention off the ROOT of the problem.
For most people (I think), it's not that you have ANYTHING against the new school. It's just that you've invested time and energy at your existing school, your children have formed bonds, and your entire family feels a connection to that school. You don't want to be "forced" to leave that school. COMPLETELY understandable.
As a family that moved every 18 months-2 years growing up, I am VERY accustomed to change and moving. Thankfully, through their attitudes and choices they made, my parents made sure that every move we made was positive. My siblings and I were our own "peer group" (6 kids in 7 years) and that helped a lot. SO, while I realize that there will most likely come a time where we HAVE TO uproot our kids to make a move (by CHOICE), being FORCED to make that move when it is NOT your choice and there are other options is hard to take.
I am not sure who said that your BoE member did not stick up for you "enough" to get the others to vote with her. I was a Lacy/Stough outsider who sat through 2 LONG and frustrating days of "work sessions". Beverley Clark seemed to fight harder for the Lacy families than ANY of the board members fought for their own. As I listened to her, I felt a little bit envious that she was not "on my side", since our board member has fought AGAINST us every step of the way. In my opinion, she DID fight hard and seemed to feel caught in a tough spot.
I have to add, I have met several Lacy parents during the past several months, and seeing how many have been involved in this issue when they don't even have a "dog in the fight" speaks highly for your community. We've got our wonderful Louise Lee who is unaffected by the insanity but continues to stay involved because she KNOWS that WCPSS is pursuing destrutive policies. We have a HUGE group of involved parents who ARE being negatively affected by WCPSS policies, but Lacy seems to have a HUGE group of involved parents who are unaffected by the 3-year plan but still willing to fight for their community.
On the other hand, I have friends at Stough who as attached to and dedicated to Stough as we all are to our schools. They are truly just trying to "get some relief". I don't view their efforts as personally hand-picking the kids they want at Stough---it's a tough situation all around, and it's nice to see some respectful conversations taking place.
So what is the solution?
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 15:26 — mossThere has been a lot of good dialogue on this post, more than I have ever seen on a blog. Unfortunately, it is under a "Dana Cope" blog but that is another issue! First of all, Lisa, I have to disagree with you about "some" Lacy parents and the negative comments regarding Stough. Words have not been "twisted" - there have been numerous postings on this blog regarding how they feel about Stough, and also on the public comments that were made online by Lacy parents. Here is one of many quotes from a blog post: "The bottom line is that parents are not sending their kids to the school because the education they get there is not good." This comment, along with others that defame the admistration at Stough, teachers, etc. have been on the N&O blogs. Even one was posted that told Stough parents "to get out quickly why your children may still have a chance to succeed instead of suffering through a poor elementary education, it would seem the more affluent and intelligent parents in your base nodes have already done that. Why haven't you all? I feel sorry for your children!" And yet another one: "Beverley Clark is my district's board member and she had the audacity to say that our kids will get an excellent education at Stough?" I don't mean to bore you with old posts, but this became really nasty. I don't recall ever reading in the N&O or other blog posts such negative comments about a particular school from parents who have been reassigned. The negative comments are understandable about the actual reassignment, not about the school. So, I beg to differ with you in that some of the comments from Lacy parents have been twisted. On another note, what would you, or anyone else on this blog, suggest happen at a school such as Stough? I'm sincere in being curious. Stough parents have been accused and blamed for asking for Lacy nodes....again, Stough parents asked for healthy nodes. Those healthy nodes just happened to be the Lacy ones. Should the Stough parents just sit back and hope that the BOE does something?? That did not help. So, I truly would like to hear a better solution to Stough's situation from any of you who are so aware of the situation.
Did Dana throw Easter Eggs
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 15:57 — g88ky07at anyone this weekend while I was gone? Was blood shed? Did anyone get locked up??
Sorry to disappoint, but we
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 17:54 — StoughParentsSorry to disappoint, but we were busy being civil. No fun on this blog, you might need to look elsewhere to stir up trouble. Hope you got my note about the melons, below. People like LacyParentof3 have the kind of melons I am talking about … not afraid to have a civil and productive dialogue – that takes melons.
No Disappoint,
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 18:45 — g88ky07good to know. Don't take the former comment personally, it wasn't meant that way. Melons aren't in season anyway.
Glad you have a sense of
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 23:28 — StoughParentsGlad you have a sense of humor. :)
Very True .. continued
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 13:26 — StoughParentsThanks for the dialogue, way down below (Very True - http://tinyurl.com/cm3lvc). Time to move it up so we can actually read it …
“As for capacity issues, the purpose of mobile classrooms is to handle enrollment during peak periods. According to WCPSS these are to be removed from a school during lulls in enrollment. Stough's undercapity issues wouldn't be as much of an issue if WCPSS followed their own policies regarding mobile classrooms. As for Lacy's capacity, yes it does appear that we are overcrowded based on the numbers alone. However, the Lacy principal met w/ GM prior to the reassignment proposal to show that there were seats for every student and additionally Lacy would be able to hand additional students from Conn without issue. Lacy did not appear of the classroom size waiver request list (though Stough did). “
For Stough – I am not sure why the units have remained, but I think some of it is to do with overall district capacity. If you take the Lacy/Stough combined base, for example, it is about 1200 students, and the combined capacity is about the same – but more of those 1200 are at Lacy and had to be shifted (using round numbers for demonstration purposes). Also, I think there is something to be said for keeping elementary schools at a certain size so they can afford to have special teachers to support students, which you can’t do in smaller schools. Again, not sure if that is the reason, but both points make sense.
For Lacy - This is something that the BOE reviewed in detail and determined that just because you can squeeze more children into a school, doesn’t mean you should. The capacity formulas are set based on education methodology, which believes that special programs should be in special classrooms, not ‘push in’ which is what happens when you convert special classrooms to regular classrooms. Unless those methodologies change, the capacity calculation will stay the same. I don’t blame the Lacy Principal for lobbying on this point – the more students you have, the more resources you have. It is the other side of the same case we are trying to make! In other words, she wants you to ‘fix’ her school with the resources your children bring … see what I mean?
“My children are not going to go to Stough as they do meet transfer criteria. As for my neighbors, I don't know how many will come to Stough. As I said before, several are opting for private, many are grandfathered, one or two got into magnets, others are opting for homeschooling, etc. Being completely honest, before I knew whether my children would be grandfathered in, I asked current Stough parents about curriculum in 3rd grade and up and I was very concerned. The AYP and EOG figures only made me more concerned. I have nothing against Stough itself (students, staff, families, etc.). Most of the families that I know that are opting to not go to Stough have done their research are making the decisions they feel are best for their children and their families.”
I don’t doubt that families are doing their research. What concerns me is that there might be a cloud that veils some information about Stough. I know anger and upset can cloud anyone’s judgment. Also, only a very small handful of reassigned families have visited Stough. Maybe four or five, total and at least a few left without even taking the tour. It is hard to imagine that you can do your homework without really visiting the school. Asking families who have left or whom have chosen magnets/private is one way to research, but it will be at least as informative to talk to parents who are happy there.
I would like to know more about what you heard about the 3+ curriculum. My understanding is that it is on par with all other traditional schools. My understanding is that children who are matriculating to Daniels are performing very well with their peers from other schools, including Lacy. Also, being a parent at Stough and having a bit of a background in education – I really love what I am seeing there. We have great teachers (7 studying for the Nat’l Boards this year), great computer resources, solid differentiation in the classrooms so all students’ needs are met, etc.
Again, thanks for taking the time to discuss these points. Since you are not coming to Stough, it is even more appreciated that you are making the effort. You may have seen G88’s comments about ‘melons’ – what you are doing here and now takes ‘melons’ much more than the negativity of others. Hats off to you.
My understanding of the
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 16:47 — lacyparentof3My understanding of the policy is that it is intended as a per school policy, not a per district, though that certainly is a reasonable explanation.
I agree that Lacy does utilize all available space, though we do still have room for specials. The meeting that the Lacy principal had was prior to the 1st draft of the reassignment proposal (the one Lacy was not included in). So, you could surmise that GM agreed that capacity was not an issue. What changed in those few weeks to make it become an issue (both in respect with moves to Stough and Root)?
As to why more didn't visit, I'm not sure. Maybe they are like me and looked 3 years ago. The parents I spoke with are current Stough parents and their children had been there from at least 1st grade on, so they were not parents who tried Stough and then left. Basically, I was told that everything that is not on the EOG test, gets put on the back burner (spelling, cursive, projects, etc.). I didn't know before I spoke to them whether or not they would give me pros or cons to consider. These are people we do other activities with, so it's not like I sought out negative information.
Keep in mind that the parents of children reassigned to Root fought just as hard as the parents of those reassigned to Stough. They don't want to leave Lacy either. You just don't see as much press about that, because it doesn't pit ITB vs. OTB and I do believe that makes a difference when it comes to press coverage.
Thank you again for the civil dialogue. It is nice for us to be able to each give our unique view of the situation.
I have no idea what changed at GM
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 17:50 — StoughParentsI have no idea what changed at GM between the first and second plan except that the first plan was intended to be a draft for comment and revision. It felt like Stough was 'overlooked' and fortunately was revisited. I do know that Stough parents were not happy to be left off the first plan and made that known in the comment period, Root might have felt the same way when they saw the plan. When I saw the plan + capacity issues, it seemed very clear to go back to the original plan (3 years ago), because all the other band-aid measures were just not working. We needed a long term solution, and this made the most sense. It really was 'in the numbers'. (Again, no one asked for these particular nodes, but it was very clear that Lacy was over capacity and scheduled for even more growth in the coming years.)
As for the visits from reassigned families, this is the part that upsets me. We can guess that most if not all of these families weren't part of the process three years ago, since they are all k-2 families without older 'grandfathering' siblings. I do not begrudge them not wanting to leave Lacy but since it is a fact, it is a shame that so many won't consider Stough. This whole 'Cope phenomenon' or whatever you want to call it has me sincerely concerned that families are making tough and costly decisions that might actually hurt their families, based on innuendo.
Thanks also for sharing the insights you have from your friends. I would agree that we are very focused on EOGs at the moment - in light of the scores last year and having another set of one-year students in the school (great kids, but we only have 9 months to make an academic impact on them). That said, we do have some great programs outside of EOGs that the students really benefit from including great technology programs, Spanish, art, mad science, journalism, etc. I find the teachers do very well differentiating and challenging children at all levels.
Also, I know this sounds cavalier and it is not meant that way, but there is nothing that Lacy does that Stough can't do ... maybe not year one, but certainly quickly. Sometimes it just takes ideas and elbow grease. One piece of that was the reassignment, but there is a lot more being done.
Any ideas you have for opening up further dialogue is appreciated. We welcome all questions - the tougher, the better. We aren't shy about the truth because we are confident. At it's core, Stough is a great school and all students will have a great experience.
Seems like most people on
Mon, 04/13/2009 - 07:21 — CaryCurmudgeonSeems like most people on this thread agree that the school board created a difficult situation at Stough several years ago by churning the student base and violating their own policy 6200. The parents who worked so hard to help Stough recover deserve medals. One outspoken parent has made disparaging comments about Stough.
But the School Board must certainly be laughing right now. If they are good at one thing, it is creating animosity between parents -- a great way to deflect anger from themselves.
We should all keep our eyes on the prize. Seems to the that the current school board has done no favors for Stough or Lacy. Let's give them the boot.
Leesville Never Protested Stough
Sun, 04/12/2009 - 23:22 — Lisa_BHey Duval:
I am not sure where you received your information, but I can assure you that you were misinformed and what you were told is 100% FALSE!
If there was any kind of protest going on in the Leesville Community, I was not involved in it and I was completely UNAWARE if it did happen. If there was any kind of anti-Stough protest, it must have been pretty tiny and pretty secretive.
Something I have found these past few years is that when others don't have something to fight FOR, they will make up lies in order to discredit others. I have a friend at Stough who told me last fall that one of the pro-YR parents at Leesville Elementary told her and others at Stough that I had personally been going around bad-mouthing Stough. COMPLETE lie, but had she not told me, I would have never known that this person was even making up lies about me. (and Bigger Picture is correct---there were rumblings around LES about staging a protest, and I advised AGAINST it. I said that I would not take part in anything like that and I refused to send an e-mail to our group drumming up support for a protest of any kind.)
The only comments I even made when asked about Stough always centered around the fact that I had a couple of friends whose children attended Stough, and they LOVED it. I completely trusted these friends, and because they had only POSITIVE things to say about Stough I never had anything NEGATIVE to say either.
We did ask for Hilburn as our traditional opt-out back then, mainly because it's so close to LES (just over 1 mile away), and so many of the Hilburn students are involved in the same activities and associations that LES kids are, so it would have been a relatively easy transition.
I did apply for seats at Stough for my 2 Elementary aged children in 2007, and when I did so I told my Stough friends up front that I most likely would NOT take those seats. I applied so that I would have the option IF I chose to do so at the time a decision needed to be made. We were told that if there was a chance we MIGHT want to transfer, we needed to apply during the application period, because if we changed our mind later we would be out of luck.
My decision to NOT send my kids to Stough was NOT because I felt Stough was inferior in any way. It really disgusted me to hear that I had been blamed for bad-mouthing Stough.
The fact that we did not want to leave Leesville outweighed the issues involved in having our kids change schools. Even at that time there were rumblings about "Leesville Punishment #2 coming soon". I was told by multiple sources that Patti Head "was out to destroy the Leesville community and would pursue MYR at LRMS if she got the chance". I naively refused to believe she would ever go that far, after the destruction and division she caused at LES with MYR. On top of that, we knew that it was NOT needed and NOT wanted by our community. When trying to make the decision whether or not to transfer to Stough, I was afraid that I might make my kids change schools 1 year only to have them change back to LES right away if LRMS was forced to convert. In the end, we stayed at Leesville because we LOVED LES, not because I did not like Stough.
Thank you for allowing me to clarify this. It's been a great week away from school issues AND the blog, and seeing my name attached to lies is not pleasant.
I hope everyone had a nice Easter!
Shouldn't the blog be a
Sat, 04/11/2009 - 16:09 — Big_PictureShouldn't the blog be a place to share opinions pertaining to issues and offer possible solutions? Anonymously making accusations against others you do not know shows a lack of class and tact. Unless you have info to back up what you say, the negative comments about ordinary citizens are inappropriate. What happened to respecting others?
You were misinformed
Fri, 04/10/2009 - 22:28 — duvalLisa B. and the Leesville parents who were fighting YR held a protest where they threatened to attend Stough as a scare tactic. They were hoping to change the minds of the BOE and reverse the decision to switch Leesville Elementary to a YR school, claiming that they preferred a traditional calandar. they did hav many parents file for a transfer as a part oaf the protest. When push came to shove they proved that having a traditional calendar was not really at issue.
Before you go spreading lies
Sat, 04/11/2009 - 11:06 — Big_PictureBefore you go spreading lies and using someone's good name in the process you should really check your facts. I spoke this AM with 2 people who have been involved with Lisa B's effort from the beginning. There was never a protest against Stough. Some did strongly suggest staging a protest. Lisa B would not support it and even told her circle not to pursue anything of the sort. She felt sympathy for how WCPSS was treating Stough and has friends there. The Leesville group asked WCPSS to allow LES families to attend Hilburn Drive as it is in their immediate community. That cannot be classified as protest. I was told that a few people applied for Stough in order to keep options open. Why many did not apply, sounds like it was a case of wanting Leesville instead of being anti-Stough. One person said Chuck Delaney publicly made a comment about making traditional options *unappealing* so they would not leave base schools. This did not just happen for Leesville; it happened all over Wake County.
The protest you might have heard about sounds like it was their PTA meeting with 500 people coming to vote against MYR and not against Stough. LES PTA voted against MYR (somewhere over 90% against) and the CCLP group had shown WCPSS what a mistake MYR would turn out to be. Patti Head pushed for Leesville destruction then and now.
I was told that Lisa B is out of town but she can probably explain this better. Don't attack an honest and committed community leader with lies anymore. That is just plain tacky.
No assistance given to
Fri, 04/10/2009 - 09:43 — jenmanNo assistance given to Stough when Brier Creek ES opened and an eerily similar situation occured at Hilburn Drive.
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Assistance WAS proposed--those same Lacy nodes were reassigned to Stough 3 years ago. Back then, the BOE caved to the pressure from Lacy parents who didn't want to leave. I understand that parents are upset at being reassigned. But this particular move is not some crazy, unjustifiable move. The schools are less than 2 miles apart. People get shifted ALL the time when a new school opens.
I agree with Equal Treatment that it seems Dana Cope is only a proponent of public education when his kids get to go to the school of their choice. His kids are not being used for 'some failed social experiment' as he claims. Yes, the move is designed to help Stough but more importantly it is designed to fill Stough and alleviate crowding at Lacy.
I just want to clarify that
Sun, 04/12/2009 - 17:35 — lacyparentof3I just want to clarify that only 2 of the 3 current nodes being moved to Stough were in the draft proposal 3 years ago. 2 more were also in the proposal 3 years ago. 1 node (Meredith Woods) was reassigned then (if I recall correctly the Stough parents opposed the move of the other node which had a high concentration of FR). Some of the Meredith Woods families did go and quite a few are no longer there. Also, the nodes were not adjoining Stough nodes, there were nodes assigned to Brooks between.
Lacy and Stough are more than 2 miles apart and from some homes it makes the difference between a child being able to walk/ride bike to school and not. While this may not seem like an important point to many, it has been something very important to my family as it has given my children some earned trust, responsibility, and independence.
I did look at Stough 3 years ago. This year, I did not go back to look again though I did talk to some Stough parents that I know.
Most that I know are not anti-Stough, we just want to keep our children in the school where they have started and where we have invested our time and energy. Years ago, Dulaney's wife was principal of Lacy and Lacy was not a good school. Families were opting for private and magnets. The school board told then current Lacy families to get the word out in those base nodes and encourage families to come back to Lacy. The Lacy Foundation was formed and a new principal came in, families returned and turned the school around.
So looking at Stough, it is very similar to the situation Lacy was in years ago. Why did the school system continue allow base students to opt for magnets when it was detrimental to the base school? Why should they reassign students when they don't make students in their existing base nodes attend?
As for how many will actually show up at Stough on the first day of school, I am not sure. I know of several that have opted for private, one existing student that was accepted to a magnet, several rising kindergarteners are opting for private, and everyone that I know that is able to transfer in via grandfathering is doing so. Many homes are for sale in the neighborhoods.
Please keep in mind that though Mr. Cope gets a lot of attention by the press, he is not a Lacy or neighborhood spokesperson.
Making assignments that you
Fri, 04/10/2009 - 20:39 — Big_PictureMaking assignments that you know will not pan out as planned are just nonsense. How many of the Lacy kids will actually attend Stough? How many would have done so 3 years ago?
I was told that WCPSS promised Stough hundreds of Leesville Elem students 3 years ago knowing only a few would actually make the change.
These lies and half-truths must end.
Who knows why
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 20:15 — EqualtreatmentMr. Cope wants Lacy so badly? Maybe he wants his children to get a private school education at a public school price. Maybe he has done the math and decided that he will actually come out ahead in his move by not having to pay to send his kids to private school. Lacy clearly has extra resources enjoyed by few other schools. Do donors to its foundation get tax credits which all other taxpayers have to pay for? Maybe Mr. Cope decided that he would have a PR problem for the head of the state employees union to send his kids to private school. Whatever the reason, his support for "public education" appears suspect since it is clearly limited to one particular elementary school and he has no qualms trashing another.
Could it be possible that
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 15:52 — Big_PictureCould it be possible that Mr. Cope is pro-Lacy (and pro-Cope family) and not anti-Stough?