A new poll released this morning by the conservative Civitas Institute found strong opposition in Wake County to mandatory year-round schools and the diversity policy.
According to the poll, 74.9 percent said they support giving parents a choice on calendar with 18.1 percent supporting mandatory year-round. On the issue of diversity, 68.3 percent said they were opposed to the diversity policy while 22.0 percent were in support.
Civitas says the poll shows "overwhelming majorities of Wake County voters support the new School Board's efforts."
The poll was timed to come out before today's school board meeting in which there will be a vote on halting plans to open new schools on a mandatory year-round calendar pending the completion of a parental survey.
This new poll of 413 Wake County voters was conducted Monday. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.8 percentage points. You can read the latest poll questions for yourself to see if you consider them legit or a push poll.
For instance, is it loaded to ask people if they support assigning students to mandatory year-round or should parents be given a choice?
One thing to keep in mind is that Civitas has strongly praised the actions of the new board. But the election results, a June poll from Civitas and those done before the election by Public Policy Polling indicate the new poll results may have more weight than critics think.
Comments
http://wake.mync.com/site/wak
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 16:07 — AngelaWhttp://wake.mync.com/site/wake/news/story/45772/poll-do-you-support-year-round-schools
Wow Angela
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 17:43 — supportwcpssOver 63% of this poll supports mandatory year round...Hmm...Maybe we should only believe this poll.
also referencing time frame
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 16:04 — AngelaWalso referencing time frame is a lie...the old BoE ramroded through Wacky Wednesdays, which effected the ENTIRE school system in about two months time' possibly converting a MYR to Traditional would actually gain those effected schools some time by pushing back start dates from July until August. and don't forget that they converted LRMS to MYR in less time than any other MYR with NO warning to the staff/principal except for AFTER the vote to convert.
This is sickening
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 15:27 — RichardAndersonEvery comment from staff seems to be a "cannot do" rather than a can do. They say "we cannot get anything before the first meeting in April" instead of "if we X it will be to you by date 1, if we Y it will be to you by date 2 and if it Z it will be to you by date 3." If they were bidding on any work, they would never get the job. I am finding it hard to give them the benefit of the doubt and not see them as being intentionally obstructionist.
because they don't support
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 15:50 — AngelaWbecause they don't support the new BoE, and will throw up every road block they can to delay/stall/rail road any decisions by the new BoE.
Speaking of obstructionist
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 15:55 — RichardAndersonSpeaking of obstructionist, who is suggesting the meetings and talking about they need to do the same process as a regular reassignment? What a blatant attempt to derail the entire process! There were no public meetings about MYR conversion. They were written into the bond. Vote went through, there was no changing it. That is what parents were told.
Who is it?
Dr. McLaurin, you
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 15:56 — AngelaWDr. McLaurin, you know..Mayor Meeker's wife?
I thought so
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 16:03 — RichardAndersonI thought so. That was really transparent political ploy.
they got the wrong ppl in central
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 15:39 — red_balloonYou need people with a can-do attitude. People who can lay out alternative courses of action and advise the board on what is needed to make each of the options happens and the pros vs cons. None of this is happening. Old loyalties and old beliefs will undermine the effectiveness of the new board unless they make immediate changes at the leadership level.
Here's some percentages of
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:46 — carson79Here's some percentages of adults with wireless-only phones:
Adults living with unrelated roommates (54.0%)
Adults age 18-24 (25.2%) or age 25-29 (29.1%)
Adults renting a home (26.4%)
Adults living in poverty (22.4%)
Not sure that tells us anything we couldn't have guessed. If we could combine it with the % of adults with no phone, we'd no how many voters get excluded from landline only polls. Of course there may be a correlation between having no phone and not voting so maybe it's meaningless, but interesting...
Nothing
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:51 — RichardAndersonIt tells us nothing without a basis for comparison. What is the the overall percentage? That way we can see how likely we are to miss certain segments of the population.
The current methodology discussion is very telling
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:44 — RichardAndersonThat there is no established procedure on how to survey parental opinion on important issues speaks volumes about previous board leaders.
It seems like there'd be
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:49 — carson79It seems like there'd be benchmarking or some standards or examples from other districts.
Agreed
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:58 — RichardAndersonThere should be something, you are right. Clearly the E&R people have dropped the ball on this. They had two weeks to come back with proposals and I haven't heard one person say "based on previous experience." Whether that is experience of colleagues in other districts, efforts by other organizations that do surveys or something. This is all just fly by the seat of the pants stuff! How can EVALUATION & RESEARCH bring a proposal that isn't data based?
In reality, this should have been done before by WCPSS and this shouldn't even be an issue.
OT-alert
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:21 — AngelaWChucky D live on WRAL now--feed from the meeting
Thanks Angela!
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:29 — RichardAndersonThanks Angela. They are talking about a translation cost and a back translation cost. Are you telling me that in the WCPSS there isn't one person who speaks Spanish?
18,294 employees
10,828 instructional personnel
7,466 other employees so that there is no burden to teachers and not ONE of them can do a translation? What is this, 1989?!?! Where the _____ is the diversity of employment in the central office that not one Spanish language speaker is available?
Did they even ask
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:31 — carson79Did they even ask anybody?? I am with Rich and I know for a fact that this is not true!
horrible isn't it? maybe
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:30 — AngelaWhorrible isn't it? maybe they can find a spanish teacher at one of the magnets, no?
What gets me
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:34 — RichardAndersonWhat gets me is that they translate almost everything so this is a continuously occurring cost! How in the last 10 years has no one in central admin hired someone and said, "hey, lets get someone who is bi-lingual and make translation part of their job description?" Just stunning that with all the focus on demographic trends that the school has, the need for a translator hasn't become painfully obvious.
Is this supposed to be a
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:33 — carson79Is this supposed to be a joke or are you truly unaware that there are spanish teachers across the district in magnet and non-magnets? maybe if you were talking japanese...
Joke?
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:38 — RichardAndersonMaybe it is a joke to some, but not to me. At my son's first school with a magnet program to which we were assigned as base, there was Spanish. He won the award for Spanish. His current school there is no foreign language instruction.
Living in the world of haves and have-nots is very real and not funny for some of us.
yes, facetious but NOT a
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:39 — AngelaWyes, facetious but NOT a funny joke....
sadly this is all too true at MANY schools.
it is a joke, stop
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:36 — AngelaWit is a joke, get a grip and stop stalking...jeez
Watch out she will report
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:37 — trollwatcherWatch out she will report you for abuse
I know, I know, I'm waiting
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:38 — AngelaWI know, I know, I'm waiting for that next....
Carson79, I'm sorry the poll
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:55 — shearertwCarson79,
I'm sorry the poll did not turn out the way you thought. Look for all the bias you want....this was a landslide of a poll result following the landslide election results. I'm not sure there are enough excuses to cancel those results out. Perhaps, however, its time for you to wake up and realize that maybe you are part of a "vocal minority". Perhaps you need to venture out and talk to some people outside of your social circle. Somehow, you're not living in reality anymore. You may not like what you find but at least you'll know the truth.
Yeah, it is definitely not
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:04 — carson79Yeah, it is definitely not reflective of people I talk to on a daily basis, but if what was supposed is true - that it was of voters who voted in the last school board election, or of voters with landlines (I'm totally guessing here but are our cell #'s available for pollsters? this is a separate discussion, just interesting to me) then it is completely in line with my expectations.
Cell Phones
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:09 — RichardAndersonI believe that there are restrictions on who can call your cell phone since you may be billed for air time usage, which includes incoming.
Reading those questions, at
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:12 — nancyncReading those questions, at least to me, sounded leading, but not in favor of the new board preferences. Perhaps it is a poll that is a reverse push poll!
Bias
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:22 — RichardAndersonNot sure I agree. For example:
The word instead implies that what follows is the expected behavior. Like when you say to your kids "did you play all afternoon instead of doing your homework?" It isn't overt bias, but it is somewhat slanted language.
As someone who is going to be generating a survey after I finish eating lunch, I can tell you that it is very easy to make yourself crazy trying to remove any indication of possible bias. Perhaps there are those much better at it than I, but I find that the further I get from any bias the more likely it is that someone will have difficulty understanding the question. Opinion and bias are part of our normal language use, so they can be both hard to detect and hard to erase.
Just curious, what makes you
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:16 — jenmanJust curious, what makes you think that?
This surprises me: Support
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 12:44 — carson79This surprises me:
Support for the policy is lowest amongst 18-25 year old????
they support it at 12.4%, while 41-55 year olds are at 24%.
wonder why this is, interesting.
Especially when support for it is clearly much stronger in self-identified democrats.
maybe because the older
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:00 — jeannie84maybe because the older demographic probably has more homeowners / taxpayers?
do you think that homewoners
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:55 — carson79do you think that homewoners are more likely to support the diversity policy?
I also thought that was
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 12:50 — jenmanI also thought that was interesting especially since 34% of the 18-25 yr olds said they would rather go to a school further away if it was more diverse.
I have always maintained that the opposition isn't about having diversity as a factor but rather the way WCPSS has implemented the policy. After years of the BOE/WCPSS not addressing the obvious problems with the policy (ie: kids getting bused from downtown to Green Hope) people just finally had enough.
I think I agree!! It's
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 12:56 — carson79I think I agree!!
It's just not consistent with what I've seen as far as people that I know and of course we all see things and are skeptical because of our lenses.
Was there another study being done today from the other side of the issue?
PPP was supposed to be doing
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:04 — jenmanPPP was supposed to be doing a survey as well but they may not release their results before the meeting.
Doesn't surprise me
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 12:47 — RichardAndersonThe low support among the youngest voters doesn't surprise me one bit. They are the ones who are the most likely to have been a part of the program. They know what it is all about.
Yet still only 28%.
I am wondering are these
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 12:54 — carson79I am wondering are these 18-25 year olds wiht landlines?? I know I keep harping on it but what 18-25 year old has a landline?? unless they live with their parents?
Phone numbers
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:03 — RichardAndersonWhen you register to vote do you enter a phone number as part of the process? Maybe that is the phone number they use?
Has to be...
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:02 — Bob_SconceThey're drawing from registered voters, so they look up the voter's phone number.
Cell phones are a problem for pollsters.
I don't know that you can look too closely into any particular age range. The entire poll was only 400 people; how many 18-25 year olds did they ask?
Also, note that while 18-25 year olds skew liberal, IIRC, 18-25 year old voters skew a bit more conservative.
I think you must be right -
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:52 — carson79I think you must be right - they select from registered voters, then look up the number? So what happens to all the selections that don't have a landline? This is like everyone I know other than my parents!
good grief get over the
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 13:58 — AngelaWgood grief get over the landline/cell phone thing....it's registered voters..period. who cares if it is a landline/cell phone....straw man?
The impact of the growing
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:09 — carson79The impact of the growing population of people who only have a cell phone - or have no phone as redballoon mentions is actually pretty well-researched as Bob mentioned above.
Try google. You may wan to look up STRAW MAN while you're out there because you clearly don't know what it means!
got it The Straw Man
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:18 — AngelaWgot it
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.
and I contend that since these poll results don't correlate with what you believe/want you are determined to invalidate it any way you can. cell phone, land line or tin can.
Well, I disagree completely
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:25 — carson79Well, I disagree completely and so do a couple other posters as you can see. Agree to disagree.
You really should try to understand what straw man means a little better as well.
Seriously.
No...
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:04 — Bob_SconceIt's a valid point and was an issue in the polling in the last Presidential election.
The problem is that you want to get a representative sampling of the voters in order for the poll to have value. But, phone polls, by nature, sample only the voters who have landline phones.
Does it matter? We don't know. It may be that people with only cell phones (or without phones at all) are much more liberal than people with landline phones. But, it is troubling.
but if all one had was a
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:09 — AngelaWbut if all one had was a cell phone then wouldn't on use that number when registering? thus enabling calls to cell phones?
I feel as if I am missing the "valid" point here...
Registering...
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:54 — Bob_SconceSo, you don't have to provide any phone number when you register. And, I don't think the Board of Elections includes phone numbers in the voter data information in publishes.
The point is that if you don't have a landline, you weren't polled. And, if, say, people with only cell phones skewed very liberal, then your end result will have a bias. How bad the bias is will depend on how many people only have cell phones and how closely correlated having only a cell phone is with the poll items.
I don't think it's a huge deal since there just aren't that many people without landlines, and no real reason to believe that they believe that they have different opinions. But, it's a concern nonetheless.
We are discussing whether
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 14:26 — carson79We are discussing whether pollsters are allowed to call cell phones - I have never received an unsolicited call on my phone.
Again, the problem of cell-only voters and polling is well documented.
Google.