Retired Wake County Assistant Superintendent Chuck Dulaney argued Monday night that student assignment can be an effective tool for helping academic achievement.
Dulaney, the first speaker at the Great Schools in Wake Coalition's back-to-schools forum, said that using student assignment to balance schools can provide students the opportunities and support they need to succeed. Along the way, he said the distance that students travel to school is less important than what's at the school they attend
"Student assignment has a lot to do with opportunity," said Dulaney, who oversaw student assignment until he retired March 1. "The mixture of students in schools have a lot to do with the opportunities in those schools."
Dulaney said the two things parents have in common is they want their children to have opportunities and support.
"The opportunity given to my child should be equivalent to the opportunities given to any other child," Dulaney said.
Dulaney listed what he called four generalizations that guided student assignment when he was working in Wake. He acknowledged there can be exceptions.
Dulaney said the first generalization is that middle class families have a very different impact on the life and success of schools than lower income families.
Dulaney said middle class families are thinking about the future, such as how to get their children into college and a professional career. In contrast, he said families struggling to make it day to day tend to lack the long-term thinking because they're thinking about how to survive.
Dulaney said this perspective shows in middle class families more likely to hold schools to high standards. They're also more likely to be involved in their children's education, to be the core of PTAs and helping to raise funds for schools.
"There are lots of things that middle class families can bring to a school that enhance a life of the school for all the children," Dulaney said.
He said the second generalization is that middle class families will leave a school if they don't feel their needs are being met. He said this is particularly noticeable when middle class families feel they've become a small part of a school population and are outnumbered by low income families.
Dulaney said the third generalization is that teachers will migrate away from schools with large low-income populations to schools with strong middle class populations.
“When teachers are confronted with a harder teaching job year after year they will migrate to other schools," Dulaney said.
Dulaney said the fourth generalization is that distance to school has nothing to do with the quality of education received. He said it makes little or no difference if you're one mile, five miles, eight miles or 10 miles from school.
"What really matters is the environment the child will be in at the end of the bus ride," Dulaney said.
Dulaney said what Wake had sought was to try to make the opportunities close so that you don't have a situation where a student can't get advanced math at a school or can't get advanced tutoring.
"We can’t have writers in residence and cultural arts programs in one school and not have writers in residence and cultural arts programs in another school," he said.
So for the past two decades, Dulaney said, Wake had tried to make schools "roughly equivalent" with "a strong middle class base."
Dulaney said that reassignment has been "strictly a function of growth." In addition to filling the new schools, he said they also had to move students to balance crowding.
Dulaney also took a shot at the new school board majority.
"When our Board of Education says they have a master plan that’s going to guarantee stability, I have to demand the evidence they’ll provide stability in a county that will grow 3,000 to 5,000 students a year," Dulaney said.
Dulaney said the only way to avoid reassignment is to have schools that are vastly overcrowded and vastly underenrolled.
During the Q&A, Dulaney faced some tough questioning from the crowd. More than 50 people attended the forum at the YWCA in Raleigh.
For instance, a woman complained her gifted granddaughter hasn't been able to get the Advanced Placement courses she's wanted at Knightdale High School. She said the student's transfer request has been turned down two years in a row.
Dulaney said he'd be willing talk with her after the session to help her with her individual case. But in general, he said the high schools with the most AP classes are magnets like Enloe and Southeast Raleigh to get students to voluntarily attend.
Dulaney said the next largest in terms of AP classes are the most affluent schools like Green Hope and Leesville.
He said the schools with the fewest AP schools are those with the least affluent students like East Wake and Garner. Dulaney said the board's conundrum is that funding AP courses at those schools means taking funding away from places such as Green Hope and Leesville.
But in general, Dulaney said student assignment should allow for schools to have a large enough population to provide students with the desired opportunities.
Dulaney added that you can't make every school a magnet school or else people wouldn't leave their own schools.
The grandmother shot back that she's not talking about magnet schools. She said she's talking about her granddaughter.
Yevonne Brannon, chairwoman of Great Schools in Wake, interceded to note the new AP partnership between Knightdale and Green Hope. The woman said that none of those new courses are what her granddaughter wants.
Brannon added that high poverty schools require more resources, If there's not enough resources, she said they'll have to take them away from affluent schools, leaving parents there unhappy,
Brannon said unhappy parents are more likely to hold their money even tighter when it comes to things such as bond issues.

Comments
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Wed, 08/18/2010 - 14:45 — Voice_of_Reason_.
duplicate
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:45 — shearertwduplicate, sorry
I'm just wondering, do you
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:36 — shearertwI'm just wondering, do you think people are just born as professionals or born as Bojangles fyers? Or do you thing that people make choices throughout their lives to end up as one or the other?
Sure, bad things sometimes happen to good people who made all the right choices. We need safety nets for that (charities, churches, perhaps a few small government aid programs if we must). But remember, there is no guarantee of "happiness", only the freedom to pursue it. Something tells me you think “professional” people were just handed that classification.
Again, not the point. I
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:51 — danofncAgain, not the point.
I understand that there isn't a tree you have to find to become a professional. I understand that it takes work.
But, this isn't really about the professional or the fry cook...it's about their kids. When it comes to a public school system, the professional doesn't deserve a better school for his kid. The fry cook doesn't deserve a worse school for his kid.
Both kids deserve every opportunity to succeed. If you put one in a school that is 15% F&R, and the other in a school that is 85% F&R, you aren't giving them equal opportunity.
DanofNC -- Professional careers are not for everyone
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 07:50 — Voice_of_Reason_In the military I was an officer for over 24 years (yes, I'm over 50). I had many very smart enlisted people working for me that had no desire to take leadership roles or added responsibility. People have different motivational drives. I even once had an enlisted guy with a Ph.D. working for me, he was brilliant but happy never having to take on extra responsibility; he mainly wanted to teach and do a "blue-collar" type supervisory job.
There is something to be said for that; I enjoy losing myself in yard work sometimes. It is far less stressful than a job with a lot of responsibility. Isn't it the pursuit of happiness we should be striving for?
Nice story. It has no
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:11 — danofncNice story. It has no relevance whatsoever to the discussion, but nice story.
I totally understand that not everyone wants to be a professional. Some others want to be but just can't handle it.
Once again, the point is that how much your house cost you and how much you make shouldn't have a huge impact on the quality of PUBLIC EDUCATION you get from Wake County.
It will never be totally equal, because PTA's do a lot at some schools and not so much at others. Striving for 100% equal schools is just as unrealistic as claiming you're going to graduate every kid.
House cost ??? Dan
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 13:29 — Voice_of_Reason_And you talk about irrevalence. There are plenty of low income houses in NED school base areas. And remember Dan, those people in those big houses pay the lion's share of the expenses for the ED schools. That includes those with no children or children in private schools.
"And remember Dan, those
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 16:11 — user12345"And remember Dan, those people in those big houses pay the lion's share of the expenses for the ED schools."
And remember VOR that the kids serving in the military and dying to protect those big house did not come from big house if you want to talk about lion's share.
User, were do you find the
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 16:25 — starsonoursUser, were do you find the data on military death and size of home the dead member grew up in? Oooh I get it, this is just more of your stereo-typing to make a point.
User doesn't get out much
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 18:57 — CaryCurmudgeonUser doesn't get out much and would be lost without his stereotypes. Now go back to your secret meeting with Art Pope.
"There are plenty of low
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 13:37 — danofnc"There are plenty of low income houses in NED school base areas."
If that were true, then diversity wouldn't be worth arguing over.
And I most certainly didn't talk about "irrevalance". I couldn't have, since you just made it up.
then diversity wouldn't be worth arguing over
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 16:31 — g88ky07it's not!
Thank You
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 16:41 — starsonoursIt is true..Draw a 5 mile circle around any school and you will find all types of housing within that circle. Not all housing is new, there are houses built 5, 10, 20+ years ago close to houses built yesterday.
"Once again, the point is
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:21 — woodstock"Once again, the point is that how much your house cost you and how much you make shouldn't have a huge impact on the quality of PUBLIC EDUCATION you get from Wake County."
How much your house costs DOESN'T impact the quality of education ...you receive inside the class room. Students who will succeed and be accepting into top universities go the the same schools as students who will fail to graduate and end up on welfare. The differecne is what happens outside the classroom. Until we adress that, no significant or sustainable change will occur. Forced busing is NOT the answer.
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Thu, 08/19/2010 - 07:48 — Voice_of_Reason_.
Equal opportunity? Is the
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:05 — starsonoursEqual opportunity? Is the curriculum different at the 2 schools? Are the teachers certified differently? The same opportunity exist.
I see your point. The
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:02 — shearertwI see your point. The point that you are not seeing is that great schools are not created by the school system. They are created by the parents and the community. The reason some schools are "better" than others has nothing to do with the state and local resources they get. Schools are "better" because those "professional" parents make them that way. They teach their kids to behave, work hard, be respectful, etc. They work with their kids at home on projects and homework. The volunteer for the PTA, donate money, etc (that is when they believe their children will remain at the school). They take pride in the school and plant grass, flowers, or fix the atheletic fields (I personally helped my dad sprig my HS pratice football field one summer). Government schools (all of them) are mediocre at best without that parental support and community backing. The ONLY way for the fryer cook kids to get that experience is to TAKE it away from some professional's kids. That is simply not right. Not only is it not right but it prevents all the stuff I mentioned above from happening for EVERYONE. It creates mediocre schools supported by government only. That's a lose lose for everybody.
The reason some schools are
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:12 — user12345The reason some schools are "better" than others has nothing to do with the state and local resources they get.
You can not discount things like poorer school having a higher turn over, typically younger less experienced teachers, not getting the same selection of AP classes which is well known and the fact that low income / minority students were denied entry into advanced math classes even though the SAS program said they would succeed.
The reason bad schools are
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:54 — shearertwThe reason bad schools are bad are primarily due to problems with the government that runs them. When those things you list are happening (again due to the poor management of the system like that of the former WCPSS BOE and Sup.), communities must rise up and demand better, vote out the people in charge, fire the sup, etc. Some of that is happening. If a community wants a better school/school system, they MUST take it upon themselves to make it happen, not wait on government to bring it to them. Being "poor" (of which there are very very few actually poor people in the US) is no excuse.
That is why if we can make
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:15 — user12345That is why if we can make resources schools get more transparent, people at poor schools can see if they are getting screwed and take action.
If a community wants a better school/school system, they MUST take it upon themselves to make it happen, not wait on government to bring it to them.
We see "community" as including all the schools in WCPSS not just the one we happen to be assigned to at this moment, right?
Let me add some clarity
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:45 — shearertwLet me add some clarity around why I think my "community" is not all the schools in WCPSS.
First, my community is Holly Springs. I have a job and a life and can barely keep up with everything that is going on in my community of Holly Springs. I know who the mayor is, a few of the board members, etc. I follow what's going on with the hospital they want to bring it, the Novartis plant and the construction around 540 extension. All of these things have a direct impact on my life, my property values etc. Like it or not, they will also have an impact on the schools (under either the old or the new BOE policies).
I have no idea what the heek is going on in downtown Raliegh or out in Wake Forest. I don't know if they are putting in a new subdivision of high income or low income housing, etc. I don't know if there's any major road construction projects or whatever. I don't know the mayor(s) (other than Meeker) or the people running things. Perhaps more importantly, they don't know me nor do they care. So I could call them up and say, "Hey, do you have any idea what that new subdivision is going to mean for my kid's school?" and they tell me to go away.
To me, this "Wake Co. is just one big community idea" is hurting this school system. It renders us all powerless and voiceless.
So, once again, no, all of Wake Co. is not my community.
Curious ... how does your
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 14:42 — user12345Curious ... how does your view translate to the country level? Do you see yourself as an American?
Why do you insist on taking
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 15:05 — shearertwWhy do you insist on taking this off the cliff?
Of course, and I do focus on national issues, state issues and again, my local issues. Am I concerned about my fellow Americans in all of WC? Of course, but I am not in a position to make every school in WC better. I cannot join every PTA or donate to every school. I cannot raise every child. I can make a difference in my school locally and that's what we're talking about.
Do you know what's going on in neighborhood XYZ somewhere in Montana? Do you have any influence over what goes on there? Do you donate you time and money to their schools, etc?
Everything is global to you liberals and that's why you never get anything done.
While I can not be on every
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 15:23 — user12345While I can not be on every PTA or contribute to every fund raiser, since I see all schools as part or my community, I buy stuff from other schools who are raising money when asked, I cheer for other schools when they complete, I encourage our school to lend props to other schools drama dept, and I am sad when another school does poorly even though it makes my school look better.
I'm not arguing against any
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 16:49 — shearertwI'm not arguing against any of those things.
I'm arguing for local involvement and local control. People know best what there children need. Communities are different and tend to reflect the people that live in them. People have different needs, wants and desires. Our schools should reflect that and respect those differences and adapt to them. That cannot happen in a one size fits all school system in an area as large and diverse as WC.
Even under the former diversity policy, different schools likely adapted, somewhat, to the needs of the majority of the population they were serving. That made it even worse for the kids who were being bused in because their "needs" we're being addressed by that school because the schools was, somewhat, focused on the needs of the primary population.
One of the ways they had to
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 17:54 — loriacOne of the ways they had to adapt - the PTA Moms organized rides from SE Raleigh for the parents who had no other way to get to the boonies of North Raleigh for parent nights, PTA meetings, etc.
What a waste of resources. I think it's great they did this, but really a sorry statement that they had to (because that time/energy could have been used for something related to education, not miles on a car) - all in the name of the 'diversity policy'.
You see community as
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:23 — shearertwYou see community as including all of the schools in WCPSS, I don't and never will. WCPSS is far too large and diverse in my opinion to have a one size fits all mentality. What's best for my community may not be what's best for yours.
I'm 100% with you on transparency and would take it a step further and include educating parents about what the are or are not getting.
The real question is
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:34 — Voice_of_Reason_Why do high poverty schools "suck" and how do we fix them? That's the real root of the problem and the only way to solve it...not spreading the problem to dilute it.
How do you expect WCPSS to
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:56 — danofncHow do you expect WCPSS to figure out how to fix them if basically no other districts have figured it out? Especially districts that spend around 9k a year per kid.
They suck because they have a lot of teacher turnover and not a lot of parent involvement. Contrary to what you believe, that lack of involvement isn't always because of a lack of concern. When you work a blue-collar job, you can't always just stop to go to the school.
The teachers have to work twice as hard, because the kids start in a deeper hole. They are less likely to have had preschool, etc. So, they take jobs at those schools to get hired, but then they often take the first opportunity to get out. Again, not all of them leave, but a lot of them do.
Again, root Causes DanofNC
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 14:47 — Voice_of_Reason_"No other districts have figured it out" ..... Well then, add WCPSS to that list because it didn't work before. As far as why that is, look to teacher unions and progressive policies that interfere with applying real solutions. Yes, I know NC doesn't have teacher unions per say.
Teachers have to work twice as hard because of too much bureaucracy and lack of control in their own classroom. Pre-school is a modern day thing....they didn't even exist in my day. Kindergarten was the luxury then, we all get it for free now.
The true root of the problem is parents who don't care and liberals who paint them as victims rather than a contributor to the problem. Also a culture led by progressives who think that schools are there to solve society's problems even when the problem are adults. Maybe it is time to quit blaming the schools and blame the parents.
Yes you can always point out exceptions to this, but that is the MAIN cause of the problem.
I simply am not willing to
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 16:25 — danofncI simply am not willing to tell a 6 year old that he doesn't deserve this or that because someone (you) thinks that their parents' poor choices caused their problems.
The kid didn't do anything wrong. Why punish him?
Conservatives think
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 17:20 — user12345Conservatives think punishment is a learning tool. If children go without it help establish a desire to be self-reliant. Whether it is sickness, neighborhood, drugs, parents, or income which hinder a child, that child needs to learn to overcome for their own moral well being. Conservative believe in tough love (especially for children) to mold their character.
Punish parents, not the child
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 19:26 — Voice_of_Reason_Maybe that is the way a conservative would first try. Just think of the outrage that would bring. I think of punishment as a deterrence, not a teaching aide. In my day, there was the treat of reform school and summer school if you didn't perform or you misbehaved. Believe me, it worked for most kids.
Dan, nor I
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 17:07 — Voice_of_Reason_Of course the 6 year old should be given the opportunity, no less than any other child. But the school can only do so much unless the parents and their local community (think small) help out. Teachers only have them a small part of the day. The economic diversity busing hurt these kids the most. Why punish them?
"The economic diversity
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 17:19 — danofnc"The economic diversity busing hurt these kids the most. Why punish them?"
That's a matter of opinion.
You're right that there is a limit to what the school can do, and that at some point the kids who have parents that aren't/can't be involved will need extra help from somewhere or fall behind.
I feel like the diversity policy was an attempt to cover as much of that ground as possible. I've said before that I think it is/was much more effective with elementary school kids than with older kids. Nothing I've seen has changed that belief.
Agree it is opinion ... DanofNC
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 07:28 — Voice_of_Reason_Opinion with no facts to back it up. And if it did work to the benefit of some, did it hurt others? IMHO, I am more inclined to agree with busing in middle and high school as long as it is voluntary and merited. That way, children who want to get more AP courses could if there were no demand for them at their base school. Those schools are more ability grouped in core subjects.
Your side always points to problems with low income schools because of discipline and lack of outside money. In elementary school, I hardly think discipline is a big issue. If it is, I blame the teachers and faculty. Outside money should not be an issue either, the schools would get more from Title 1 money.
There is an achievement gap
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:48 — danofncThere is an achievement gap from the day kids start kindergarten. If 85% of NED kids have had preschool, and 50% of ED kids haven't, then there's your gap.
Busing in ES can impact that gap, because the kids that have had preschool don't need as much intense work. They can and do succeed and excel without as much one-on-one instruction. A kid that is starting from scratch starts in a serious hole.
In a high poverty school, 80-90% of the kids wouldn't have had preschool, so their chances of being anywhere close to ready for first grade are minimal because there just isn't time.
The reason that I think busing is less important/necessary as kids get older is that by the time kids get to middle school they are separated by ability. The are (or should be) put into classes based on their achievement, and that's it.
In ES, I feel like the diversity policy gives (gave) kids a chance to earn a spot through their achievement regardless of where their individual starting line may have been.
Wrong,. The value of
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 09:28 — woodstockWrong,. The value of pre-school is way, way over-rated. Any value gained is temporary and is lost by grade 2 or 3 ...which is why SmartStart is such a tremendous waste of money.
IMHO, I am more inclined
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:38 — user12345But that person USUALLY made choices DanofNC
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:12 — Voice_of_Reason_That fry cook possibly could of been something different if they made the right choices in life. Maybe if they took more advantage of the education that they were provided early in life, the outcome might of been different. True maybe the fry cook might be academically challenged, but that the way life is. There are no guarantees of prosperity. Some people win the lottery and others lose due to other circumstances, luck included...that's life. Others work hard and deal with what they are dealt in life. It usually all comes down to choices one makes throughout life. It is not the role of government to equal the playing field, only to ensure the rules are applied equally. Are you saying we shouldn't have fry cooks, sanatation workers, landscapers, cleaners, etc.? It takes all kinds to make society function. Why wasn't I born with musical talent, superior athletics, incredible looks, or artistic brilliance? I wasn't even given an opportunity by the government to develop what I had. Am I bitter? No, I dealt with it. Am I angry with God for not giving me them? No, I deal with what I have. Bitterness is a path to failure, people generally don't want to here it. People that are successful usually make the most of what they have.
You totally miss the
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:26 — danofncYou totally miss the point.
The fry cook may not feel like he's missing out on anything. He may be perfectly content. Everyone has different expectations. The fry cook may not think he made bad choices. Suppose he graduated from high school and took a job to help his family? That's not ideal, but that doesn't mean he made a bad choice.
The simple fact is that if the fry cook and the professional live in the same county, and their kids attend the same public school system, they should have the same opportunities. If the fry cook's kid ends up in a high poverty school, that will not be the case.
High poverty schools are not good places to learn. They suck resources out of the system, and do not get the results that you'd think the extra money should "buy".
No one is asking anybody to guarantee anyone "prosperity". No one is saying that the fry cook is (or should be) bitter. Where you live should not impact your ability to get a good education from a public school system. If we create high poverty schools (intentionally or not), it will. I don't think that's fair.
By the way....I know this is a blog, and I know this makes me the grammar police, but even though it sounds like "could of" and "might of" when you say it, it's actually "could have" and "might have".
I think the "fry cook" and
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 21:45 — HJ2ss2I think the "fry cook" and blue collar worker are getting a bad rap in this blog. The high school educated fry cook is likely to want something better for his children. The fact that he is a high school graduate means he has accepted certain societal norms and values.
The problem arises with the children whose parents do not fall in to the category of the "work ethic" group. I'm not making a judgement here, I'm describing what I have observed, heard and learned. If you are raised to believe that working is a waste of time because you can make more money (courtesy of the government) staying home, that drug dealers have nice cars, clothes and jewelry, that certain other illegal professions can be quite lucrative and your parent is not physically or emotionally available to guide and support you, attending a school that provides you with educational opportunity will be of no benefit because you do not have the values or the skills to take advantage of the opportunity. No matter how caring etc. your teachers are, you continue to go home to the same home every night where, in many cases, mom does not possess the necessary parenting skills to protect and nurture you.
I believe the solution starts with making parents responsible for their children. It's a complicated problem but busing a child to a school that provides greater opportunity is not the answer.
"I believe the solution
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 06:32 — danofnc"I believe the solution starts with making parents responsible for their children."
"If you are raised to believe that working is a waste of time because you can make more money (courtesy of the government) staying home, that drug dealers have nice cars, clothes and jewelry, that certain other illegal professions can be quite lucrative and your parent is not physically or emotionally available to guide and support you, attending a school that provides you with educational opportunity will be of no benefit because you do not have the values or the skills to take advantage of the opportunity. No matter how caring etc. your teachers are, you continue to go home to the same home every night where, in many cases, mom does not possess the necessary parenting skills to protect and nurture you."
So, we make the parents responsible for their children, do nothing at all as a school system to try to break the cycle that you describe, and just keep building prisons.
Got it. Great plan.
I said the solution starts
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 19:19 — HJ2ss2I said the solution starts with ( I should have said "attempting") to make parents responsible for their children. That wasn't the resolution, just a starting point. We have enough prisons, I believe we need more schools. Particularly schools with staff trained to work with students who manage to get themselves suspended for various reasons.
What I described in my post was what these kids are dealing with at home. There isn't enough room to detail everything that needs to be done nor is this the appropriate place for it. I know there are ways to reach these students but you have to understand where they are coming from if you want to make changes. You also have to understand how to gain their trust. Interventions need to take place out of the classroom in order for these students to be able to learn. I know this can be successful. I have seen it work. One problem is that some administrators believe they have all the answers and are unwilling to try different ways of doing things, for various reasons. It's very difficult when you have a solution you know will work and you are denied the opportunity to implement your interventions.
DanofNC Do you really believe what you say?
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 07:16 — Voice_of_Reason_If you really do then you should advocate that children of low income children should be taken from their parents and educated in boarding schools run by the state. After all, parents should not be held accountable. And of course these kids should have the same opportunity that other have. The state will be better "parents" for them. And of course to be fair in your progressive mind, all children should be included to make it fair. Oh yeah, I forgot...that's the Cuban communist model... where children are the state's property, to make the state more income and not be a burden to society.
The "solution" is not osmosis learning with middle and upper income kids either. That solution if it worked at all is two-way street.
Parents, not schools are the solution. Discipline and drive start in the home. Schools should motivate and educate. Schools aren't a substitute for parenting. Schools are a gift to children, they are not a government service to keep the prison population down. Want to do that, get people to work instead of living off welfare.
We are educating children.
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:07 — danofncWe are educating children. The children earn the test scores and graduation rates that people talk about. The children represent the future of our society.
Ideally, every parent would be very involved in their child's life. In the real world, that isn't going to happen. I don't think the children of those people should be left to their own devices.
I see a lot of talk here about the need for individualized attention. Well, that's really all that I'm asking for. Kids who have parents that aren't as involved as we'd all like demand that individualized attention. That individualized attention is easier to provide in a class where there are 3-5 kids who are struggling than in a class where there are 18-20.
Schools can't the the solution. But, they can be part of the solution. They can also be part of the problem. High poverty schools tend to be part of the problem, which is why I think they should be avoided.
"And of course these kids should have the same opportunity that other have."
Since every other sentence in that paragraph was sarcasm, I guess it's OK to assume that you don't really believe this either. The truth finally comes out. You think that the citizens of Wake County should build and staff a better school in one area than they do in some other part of the county.
Voice of Reason my.....well, nevermind.
Sort of Dan
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:54 — Voice_of_Reason_I believe that high poverty schools (especially elementary) should be treated different and provided with adequate resources. I believe these schools should be run by people who specialize in working with problem students, both academically and disciplinary. I believe innovation should be allowed in those schools. Those innovations should include ability grouping and extra mentoring when needed. Money and facilities have little to do with success, good faculty is the main issue. I would even support higher pay for those teachers as long as school performance is improving. I also believe that outside groups need to be a partner with these schools to help in mentoring and tutoring those children that need it. Those groups should include churches in the local community.
There is no perfect world Dan, some children will fail no matter what you do. What I do know is that you should never bring down others to help those that struggle. WCPSS's previous policies did that to dilute their problems, not solve them. I also think it is the height of hypocrisy and selfishness that those that have children in Magnet schools are so vocal about keeping the status quo.
My children do not and most
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 10:52 — danofncMy children do not and most likely will not attend magnet schools.
WCPSS' NED kids outperform the state in basically every category. How, exactly, are they being brought down?
Last year, there were over 43,000 kids in WCPSS who were ED. I think that would be top 5 in the state if you made those kids their own district.
"I also believe that outside groups need to be a partner with these schools to help in mentoring and tutoring those children that need it. Those groups should include churches in the local community."
This is where there is a disconnect. You, me, the schools, nor anyone else can demand anything of these outside groups. You can ask and encourage, but that's it. The second we introduce policies and procedures that are dependent on these outside agencies, we are on our way to failed schools.
It is far easier to attract these outside groups
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 13:21 — Voice_of_Reason_It is far easier to attract outside groups if the school is a "neighborhood owned" school. Also the school system needs to provide a framework and provide resources before asking for help. You should expect that they will come to you if you don't have a plan. Nor would it be easy legally. The school system would have to do foot work to overcome liability issues, etc.
I agrree ED students don't have an adverse effect on the NED until the % gets above 40%. But when LEP students are put into the mix, that changes the equation. I have personal experience with the later.
Go look at the stats from
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 13:31 — danofncGo look at the stats from last year and tell me how many schools didn't get the majority of their students from the area around the school.
If a few nodes being bused into the area keep those groups from volunteering their time, then they probably shouldn't be helping anyway.