WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Chamber and WEP to comment on draft student assignment map

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The Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce and the Wake Education Partnership will speak out Thursday about the draft student assignment map being reviewed by the Wake County school board's student assignment committee.

In a press release this afternoon, both groups said they'd "address issues related to a proposed student assignment plan for Wake County's public schools." They say they're holding the media briefing in response to the student assignment committee's request for input on the map.

Considering how both groups aren't exactly fans of the elimination of the diversity policy, the tone could be less than positive Thursday. Don't be surprised if they note the sharp demographic differences among the 16 zones.

Whether this is what school board chairman Ron Margiotta had in mind when he asked the Chamber last month to cooperate with the school board remains to be seen. He had urged them, among other things, to "give us the opportunity to prove that we can make it work."

The media briefing is at 10 a.m. at the Chamber's offices, 800 S. Salisbury St., Raleigh.

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Just came in ... lots of good questions

 

Below is info from Barbara Walsh, school board District #9 representative of the WCPSS student assignment committee, which may help clarify some questions that people had regarding the student assignment map.  

----------------------------------------------------

You have the OPPORTUNITY to provide online comments about VERSION 1 Student Assignment Map.  I encourage you to EXERCISE YOUR RIGHT to provide public comment – YOUR COMMENTS will be considered & shape Version 2 of the assignment map.  Yes, I sit on the Student Assignment Committee, but I cannot speak for you, that is your job and your right.

A couple of items you should note:

  • This assignment map affects children that are currently 3 years old, in 4th grade and in 7th grade, students already enrolled in a school will be grandfathered (don’t know about transportation)
  • Those students/families will be the first to experience the new “choice” model
  • There are NO BASE ASSIGNMENTS for any school and no capacity caps on high schools
  • An application/enrollment process would be created (very similar to magnet application process) to evaluate your child’s school assignment based on:  capacity, proximity, stability and family (siblings)
  • The assignment decision would be generated by a computer based on priorities (values) of the variables:  capacity, proximity, stability and family (siblings)
  • The weighting of the variables has not been designated

 

Ask yourself these questions and provide FEEDBACK

  1. How much will all of this cost?
  2. How will this improve academic achievement?
  3. How will the buses work?
  4. Is this plan any better than what we already have?
  5. Would you prefer to have a base assignment from year to year…or not?
  6. What happens if your closest school or 1st choice school is overcrowded – where will your child go without a base assignment?
  7. Are you okay with students from the same neighborhood going to different schools?
  8. Who will determine the weighting of the variables & will that information be public knowledge?
  9. Can the assignment decisions be appealed?
  10. If the Region/Zone model goes into effect, should you be able to apply to schools across zone lines?
  11. What happens if you live the same distance from two schools but they are located in two different zones and both of them are overcrowded?  Where will your child go to school?

Please get involved in this process!

Good questions - bad answers

 

Many folks in my neighborhood are quite confused by the zoning proposal, in particular on how it delivers the promise of 'neighborhood schools' for our community. We are in the NW corner of the central zone in nodes 368.1, 368.3, and 368.4. The base Elementary and Middle school for our neighborhood today is Reedy Creek, with Adams Elementary as our YR option. 

The proposed zoning would remove our neighborhood kids from their neighborhood school, sending them to schools much farther away. In fact if you draw a circle around approximate center of our nodes there are 8 Elementary and Middle schools closer than the closest Elementary school they would be moved to in the BOE proposal. Some of these kids can see the Reedy Creek school properties from home !

Parents should really look at the zoning maps carefully, as I thought this was exactly the kind of thing that the new BOE majority was against, yet in our case it seems to be their proposal to remove us from a neighborhood school and not only send our kids to a zone that as the closest school much further away but since there is no base, we could get sent to a school even further than that !  How are we supposed to see this as better ? 

I am guessing there is a lot

I am guessing there is a lot of misconception out there ... we know that many people can not attend the closest school in many places because of capacity ... we know that a "zone" means "lines" so a street will be used to separate neighbors ... and it is likely that people living across the street from a school will be assigned some where else ...I think people thought they were voting for a final product where everyone goes to the closest school and neighborhoods stay intact ... they may have envisioned Mayberry and a return to a simplier time ... but that is probably logistically impossible ... I have to believe that sometime in the near future after the plan take affect there will be many, "I can see the school / hear the band from my deck but my kids can not attend that school" ,,,

I'm hoping that with the

I'm hoping that with the alternative plan being developed, we'll be able to pinpoint ourselves on a map and spreadsheet for both plans and compare the assigned schools. 

Should be interesting at least.

The "alternative plan" is

The "alternative plan" is useless and a waste of time/money.  Alves doesn't have any authority, and the BoE is under no obligation to accept any of his ideas.

I agree.  I think the one

I agree.  I think the one good thing that could potentially come from it is if Alves really does balance all the schools/areas of the county.  It would be interesting to see how much busing and convoluted assignment zones would have to go on for that to happen. 

Keep in mind that this is

Keep in mind that this is just the preliminary overall shell that they will be working with.  The kind of situation that you are talking about is the kind of feedback they need to finalize the plan.  They were initially trying to find pre-existing boundaries of some type to start with instead of coming up with completely new ones. 

Let them know about your neighborhood's situation.

Shell

The use of the work "shell" is very telling .  Definition - The usually hard outer covering.  This implies very little flexibility. If the board was truly interested in proximity - they would have started with drawing circles around each school, analyzed the results - capacity and overlaps. Then designed an offering.  The current maps are a poor start -  all one has to do is look at the map and see neighborhoods cut in half.  It will be interesting to see if the boundaries do in fact change to support neighborhood schools. 

" The current maps are a

" The current maps are a poor start -  all one has to do is look at the map and see neighborhoods cut in half.  It will be interesting to see if the boundaries do in fact change to support neighborhood schools. "

Keep an eye on donor neighborhoods which will probably be tweaked.

Good grief, there was no

Good grief, there was no hidden meaning to my use of the word shell.  It was just the first word I thought of. 

Here are the answers you are looking for - from the BoE majority

The questions have been renumbered to reduce confusion amongst our supporters..

  1. How much will all of this cost?

Not relevant. We have to fix what is broken. It's only money. Think about our children - they are our future.

  1. How will this improve academic achievement?

Not relevant. We have to fix what is broken. White kids don't need black kids to sit next to them to succeed.

  1. How will the buses work?

On diesel. Forced busing will cease except when we deem it necessary.

  1. Is this plan any better than what we already have?

Not relevant. We have to fix what is broken.

  1. Would you prefer to have a base assignment from year to year…or not?

Yes. Except when we (the BoE) decide to change it.

  1. What happens if your closest school or 1st choice school is overcrowded – where will your child go without a base assignment?

We will decide. Parents are ignorant and don't know what is good for them.

  1. Are you okay with students from the same neighborhood going to different schools?

Of course. We will decide what is good for them. And no notice is required.

  1. Who will determine the weighting of the variables & will that information be public knowledge?

We will. And you don't need to know.

  1. Can the assignment decisions be appealed?

Only if you live in one of the BoE majority districts and somehow get assigned to an outside school.

  1. If the Region/Zone model goes into effect, should you be able to apply to schools across zone lines?

You could. See answer to the previous question.

  1. What happens if you live the same distance from two schools but they are located in two different zones and both of them are overcrowded?  Where will your child go to school?

You will have to move to a zone with less crowded schools.

See how simple it all is?

I know that was an attempt

I know that was an attempt at humor, but it could really have been a little more humorous.  Or, you could have given answers that are probably close to the truth.  I think I could come close to being right on basically all of them. 

Plus, you made all the questions #1.

The answer to #1, for example, is:

"No idea.  But, we'll promise the moon prior to talking any budget numbers, so then when we have to downsize the offerings we can say it's because of the budget, even though everyone knew from day one that we'd have a pare back the offerings at some point"

#2:  It won't.  Hopefully, things don't get worse and we're able to implement some academic initiatives that help students succeed.

#3.  Same as #1.

See how that works?

...

How did you receive this? Email? A post somewhere?

It seems as if Walsh is not happy with not having a base assignment.

 

The note went out to the

The note went out to the PTA.  Both Barbara and the PTA have been doing a good job of encouraging people to participate.  I was really surprised that people have not revolved over the no base school ... given that many are secretly hoping to live across the street from a "good school" and secure access using proximity but have a possibility that they will be assigned a few schools over is surprising to me.   Where are all the, "I drive by seven schools" to get to our school folks who were so angry?  I am guessing there will be a lot of anger directed at "the computer" which will assign neighbors to good and bad schools and there won't be a detailed explanation of what happened.

I'm assuming Walsh is at

I'm assuming Walsh is at your former school and the email was forwarded from a friend?  I don't mean that to sound like an accusation, just asking.

I agree that I'm surprised we haven't heard more from people who want to have an assigned school.  And I also agree that it's a good thing that the PTA is encouraging people to participate and to give them questions to think about.

I am a softy and continue to

I am a softy and continue to contribute to the PTA since those folks work so hard.  It would be interesting to know who is being kept informed and who isn't ....Wasn't Eric your rep ... who ever took over for him may be dropping the ball.

I don't think too many

I don't think too many people are being kept informed like your old school is.  I'm in Kevin Hill's district so Sue King is my rep.  I've not heard anything about the assignment plan from anybody at either of our schools or from Sue King or Kevin Hill. 

We are hearing nothing in

We are hearing nothing in District 7 from any reps.  I do wonder what is going on and what people think.

find out who your schools'

find out who your schools' BAC reps are.....

Thanks for posting - these

Thanks for posting - these are great points to consider.

I agree.  We still have too

I agree.  We still have too many YR schools.  Every kid should have a base assignment to a traditional school, then be allowed to apply for YR, magnet or other schools. 

I don't understand that

I don't understand that difference.

We are assigned to a YR school, but could opt out to a TR.  If we were assigned to a TR school, we'd have a YR opt-out.

I think you'd have to have a massive construction push before you could base-assign every kid to a TR school and make YR schools optional for everyone.

Which part don't you

Which part don't you understand, that every student should have a base assignment, or that that assignment should be TR?

My rationale:

Without a base assignment, you can't buy a house knowing where your kid will go to school.  You will certainly know the choices, but there are no guarantees. 

Regarding YR, I know that we still have lots of YR schools that are operating inefficiently, either unenrolled or with partial/complete tracks closed down.  Before they added the 'M' to YR, the YR schools I'm familiar with (Morrisville, Turner Creek) were vibrant schools with healthy enrollments.  People enrolled there wanted a YR format, even if it wasn't on their preferred track.  As long as we have YR schools assigned as base, we will always have a line of parents opting out because the format doesn't suit them, with track 2 seemingly to be the least popular.  I would prefer to have less YR schools that are all fully enrolled, because that would reduce our operational costs.

According to last year's

According to last year's numbers on WCPSS' website, 67748 students attended elementary schools, and there was room for 75438 (89.8% of capacity was used).  Those numbers included 577 mobile units.

If every kid is going to be assigned to a traditional school, that means you have to have seats in traditional schools for 67748 kids.  You can't assign kids to a school without a mechanism for giving them a seat. 

I have a hard time believing we could adjust school capacities in such a way as to provide those traditional assignments for all kids, unless we build more schools.  Probably a lot more schools.

If you go by the strict "1/4 less students" assumption of reducing the capacity of a YR school to make it TR, you lose seats.  Adams ES, for example, would have gone to 655 from 873, which means that some of its 730 students would have had to go somewhere else.  Ballentine would have had 71 kids more than capacity.

Banks Road would have had room as a TR school, but it's a new school that has extra space because of slow growth.  Its numbers will likely go up some this year.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if you convert a bunch of YR schools back to TR in order to provide the base assignments you're asking for, WCPSS would be operating really close to 100% capacity (if not over it).  If you're offering this idea as "what you'd like to see" and not "what you think we should do", then I get it.  If you're saying this should be a part of the new plan, I don't.  Unless you're planning a huge construction bond really soon.

They already assign more

They already assign more kids to a school than there are seats with the assumption that some students will go to magnets or yr magnets.  I don't know how they figure it all but I don't think its accurate to say that we can only assign the number of kids to a school that there is capacity for.  I do understand your larger point though.

I also want to point out that while you can go for the traditional opt out, there isn't an automatic yr opt out.  There were still students turned down for VYR this year although not as many as in previous years.  It could be that in your part of the county there's plenty of room for all kids who want YR but its not the case everywhere.

How many people were turned

How many people were turned down for their VYR option?  I thought the number was miniscule and due to very overcrowded YR schools in their area but could be wrong.  I guess this argues for more conversions in those areas and longer bus rides for some to get to their traditional option.

Much higher acceptance rate this year

About 22% of elem YR applicants were turned down and less than 10% of middle.  So it was much smaller than in previous years.  I was just pointing out that it's not as if you can just say I want to opt out of trad and automatically get it.

As to whether or not it means more conversions I think it really depends on a number of factors.  In my area, for instance, Durant Elem was increasingly filled with base students over the past several years.  The year we applied for YR, there was only a 14% acceptance rate at Durant.  I believe that they kept Durant full of base families because they did not want families leaving Fox Road and Wildwood Forest.  This year, Durant ES only turned down 22 kids but I was surprised to see that Heritage turned down over 100 kids.  (I'm wondering if the accepted and denied numbers got mixed up?).

Meanwhile, Wakefield Elem is still way underenrolled but they wouldn't let the people who wanted YR go there.  The told us they were saving the space for 'future growth'.  That was 4 years ago and they're still not close to full. 

There are a number of families I know at Brassfield who aren't crazy about the YR schedule but they love the school so they stay there.  One section of my neighborhood got reassigned to Durant and they were just happy to not have to go all the way to Lead Mine (either that or Lynn Rd) anymore. 

So long story short, I think there are a lot of other factors involved that make it hard to say how many people really want YR in my particular area.  I'm sure that other parts of the county have their own assignment quirks that also make it hard to tell what's really going on.

Each student having a base

Each student having a base assignment is something I think we should do.

Having that assignment be TR is something I'd like us to do, I haven't looked zone by zone to see how feasible that is.  We are going to need to build more schools regardless, and if building a few more means everyone gets a TR base assignment just tell me where to sign up for the bond.
 

I agree with this,

I agree with this, especially students having a base assignment. 

Besides what I consider the unfairness of forcing only some people on the YR calendar, I am even more concerned about the unequal opportunities at the YR schools.  Especially at the middle schools.  It is one thing for a parent to make the informed decision to pursue YR schooling knowing that their kids won't have access to certain electives, will have to be on a specific track in order to get advanced math, or will go for weeks without an AG, art or music teacher because they are tracked out.  It is another thing to force some people into that.

...

Base assignments would constantly change if they are rigid lines. Why not allow the assignment model, which includes proximity and choice, self-define the assignment zone? Then, when populations change or age up within that zone, the base would automatically change -- again, driven by proximity and choice.

 

But from what I understand

But from what I understand there is no base.  So when you move into a house you just have a list of schools to apply to and that's it.  There's no default base school that you're just assigned to.  Are you thinking of something else?

No Base

I guess that will make growth management easy. You move into a house, you are all excited there are other kids in the neighborhood the age of your kid, you list the neighborhood school as your first choice, when the assignment comes out you are informed - sorry your 1st choice is full, so you need to go to xyz school.  This is now your assigned school for the next 5 years. You are free to reapply next year.  -  So this a good thing because ?

 

I didn't say it was a good

I didn't say it was a good thing.  I don't like the idea of no base assignment.  We absolutely cannot go back to what we had before, but I don't agree with this no base thing either.  There's something better.

I Commented On The Base Assignment Issue...

because of two reasons.

1)  Without a base assignment you could potentially have the same resentment they had previously with magnet and YR choices.    My neighbor and I both applied to school Y and my neighbor got their choice and I didn't? 

2)  I believe if everyone is assigned a base school then they could cut down on potentially a lot of work in this process.  If you are happy with your base assignment you don't have to apply.   Can you imagine the amount of data and information they would have to manage  and process through with everyone having to choose? 

Your hypothetical in #1 will

Your hypothetical in #1 will happen no matter what assignment policy you use.  That isn't going away with the new model.

#2 is correct.  If everyone has a base assignment, it would likely cut down on the applications.

Base Assignments

 

I think that would still not let you purchase a home knowing where your kids would go to school since the base could move around, or provide for stability unless you always grandfathered everyone as you changed the base.. in which case you have a transportation nightmare, and would split kids within a community or neighborhood to several different schools over time as the bases moved. 

Also, it seems to me that under the new proposals there would be much greater variance in student achievement from school to school than we have today… and few parents would want to be in a situation where all the 'choices' they are given are schools that are struggling for various reasons.

Choice and proximity are great goals, however the details of what choices you are given will define if you perceive this new model as better than the old model. 

Note the issues that CMS is having now under a model similar to what we are moving towards, overcrowded suburban schools, under filled urban schools, and lots of angst over moving the lines and changing assignments.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/09/09/1677331/school-changes-likely-to-be-felt.html

Mr. Hui--Is this open to

Mr. Hui--Is this open to public attendance or for media only?

It doesn't say either way in

It doesn't say either way in the press release.

Off Topic, but....

From Time Magazine...

When Washington voters declined to give Mayor Adrian Fenty a chance at a second term in Tuesday's Democratic primary, it rattled the education-reform world. Four years ago, Fenty carried every precinct in the city and was talked about alongside rising Democratic stars like Mayor Cory Booker of Newark, N.J., and a little-known Senator from Illinois named Barack Obama. Now Fenty's loss to city council chairman Vincent Gray leaves in doubt not only the status of Washington's revolutionary school chancellor, Michelle Rhee, but also the national momentum for her brand of ambitious — and aggressive — education reform.

Like a handful of other big-city mayors, Fenty was given almost exclusive control of Washington's schools in an effort to streamline accountability and minimize politics. His first act was to install Rhee as chancellor in 2007. Prior to her arrival in D.C., she was well known as a fearless reformer. She had launched the influential New Teacher Project in New York City, where she was also instrumental in overhauling the teachers' contract, earning her the enmity of union leaders.

When Rhee barreled into Washington, just 12% of the city's eighth-graders were proficient in reading, according to the National Assessment of Educational Progress. If ever there were a school district in need of dramatic change, this was it. Fenty was supportive while Rhee closed schools, reorganized the central office, fired teachers and administrators for poor performance, and let others go for budget reasons or for failing to meet various standards. Even in the midst of the primary campaign this year, Fenty sanctioned the firing of several hundred teachers. That's unheard of in most cities — even with no election on the horizon.

It's worth noting, however, that although pundits frequently described the mayoral primary as a referendum on Rhee — whose high-profile efforts to clean up the school district included her much criticized decision to pose, broom in hand, for a cover of TIME in 2008 — she was not the only factor in the Sept. 14 poll results. Fenty's loss turned on a number of issues, including his managerial style; the Washington City Paper had endorsed him, begrudgingly, as "the jerk the city needs"

Regardless, the D.C. election will affect education reform. With Fenty soon to be out of a job, it is widely assumed that Rhee will leave her post, voluntarily or involuntarily. She campaigned against Gray, and on style and substance, the two seem far apart. If Gray can persuade her to stay, it would be an impressive act of leadership on both sides, but insiders see little chance.

So what would a Rhee exit mean?

Most immediately, instability for Washington's students and teachers just as the city was finally experiencing some consistency in its overall strategic direction. Rhee is the seventh superintendent in a decade. She has managed, during her short tenure, to institute a variety of management improvements, new accountability for school leadership, a landmark teacher-evaluation program and one of the most ambitious teacher pay-for-performance plans in the nation. Student outcomes are improving, but the uncertainty caused by the election will slow things down. And although a Gray victory does not mean a wholesale dismantling of Rhee's reforms — as some are suggesting — changes are likely.

Her departure could spark a talent drain. Rhee, whom I have known for more than a decade, is a charismatic leader who has attracted people from across the country to work in the city's central office and schools. They may not leave just because of her departure but because they deeply value her style of reform, which is urgent and results-focused. Unless Gray sends early and unequivocal signals about continuing ambitious reform in the city, look for some talent to head elsewhere. Among the employers already eyeing the D.C. talent pool: leading charter-school networks, states that are implementing winning Race to the Top plans and a handful of cities that are pursuing aggressive reform.

Outside of Washington, if you listen closely, you'll hear the whispering of teachers' union leaders to Democratic officeholders, warning them that they could share Fenty's fate if they get too far out of line. Or, as New York City schools chancellor Joel Klein put it to me: "The vote on Fenty will be opportunistically misused by the opponents of real school reform."

Fenty's loss will reinforce the idea that dramatic change and political survival are mutually exclusive, says Justin Cohen, who leads the school-turnaround work for nonprofit Mass Insight (and previously worked for Rhee in Washington). Rhee's "entire ethos is based upon 'results for children before the interests of adults,' " he says. The irony, Cohen notes, is that "the national conversation about her has been the converse."

But perhaps the biggest repercussion of the D.C. election is that it will reinforce the idea that in America's notoriously change-averse schools, you can just hunker down and wait out the reformers. That this, too, will pass.

As it happens, we're looking for a new superintendent...

While things could change, I

While things could change, I had blogged a few years ago about a convention I attended in which Rhee was the guest speaker. She said she would never work in a school system without mayoral control. She was concerned about things shifting too rapidly in a system led by an elected school board.

"She was concerned about

"She was concerned about things shifting too rapidly in a system led by an elected school board."

sounds like a wise woman!

Interesting.  Thanks for

Interesting.  Thanks for posting this.

They say they're holding the

They say they're holding the media briefing in response to the student assignment committee's request for input on the map.
 
So I'm left wondering why they are providing their input through the media, instead of directly to the student assignment committee.  If their goal is to drive another wedge between themselves and the school board, then this is the right approach.  But, if they actually want to have some dialog with board members and sincerely present their facts and opinions, they are going about it the wrong way.

It turns out to be worse

It turns out to be worse than that. Apparently WEP and others are funding a parallel effort to devise an assignment plan with Alves' help. I cannot think of a better way to undermine the student assignment committee. Great going WEP!

partnership

Interesting use of their donations.  Instead of 'partnering' in the process and providing the input from the business community, they fund an alternate effort?  Then what?  

i agree. 

i agree. 

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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