The SAS report was also mentioned in an op-ed piece urging Wake to find a better way to discipline students.
In today's op-ed piece, the authors say the new school board needs to address why Wake issues so many long-term suspensions, especially compared to Charlotte. The op-piece says both Enloe and Garner high schools gave more long-term suspensions last year than 107 of the state's 115 school districts.
The authors also question why Wake files charges against many of its students in juvenile court, even though over 80 percent of those charges amount to minor misdemeanors.
"Members of the Board of Education are best-positioned, as policymakers and leaders, to guide progress toward reducing the number of unnecessary suspensions and court referrals in Wake County," according to the op-ed piece.
The authors are Jason Langberg, a staff attorney and Everett fellow at Advocates for Children's Services, a statewide project of Legal Aid of N.C. and Cary Brege, a staff attorney and Equal Justice Works fellow there.
Comments
I have related my anger
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:15 — jenmanI have related my anger having friends/coworkers relate all the AP classes that were available to their kids in their low LI school that are not available to mine because our resources are being used for LI.
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What are you doing about this? Have you spoken in front of the school board? Written letters to the editor? Tried to organize other parents to push WCPSS to offer more AP courses to higher F&R schools? Eastern Wake has this very same problem--I'm sure that there are plenty of parents there who would love to join forces with you.
Your concerns fit right along with those of the WSCA yet you continue to blast us for fighting for something better. Get off your butt and do something productive about ensuring an equal education for all Wake students.
“What are you doing about
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 08:16 — user12345“What are you doing about this? Have you spoken in front of the school board? Written letters to the editor? Tried to organize other parents to push WCPSS to offer more AP courses to higher F&R schools? Eastern Wake has this very same problem--I am sure that there are plenty of parents there who would love to join forces with you. “
Actually it was not until I joined this blog did I realize how much disparity there was between schools. My oldest of four was in a school of excellence with few F&Rs and many advanced courses. I thought that was the norm. When we downsized to a mix neighborhood and a high F&R school I found out the many courses were not available at the new school. The counselor told us she could get my daughter into AP classes at the old school (lots of open seats) if we could provide the transportation. However, getting a kid across town with five minute between classes and different school schedules was going to be impossible. We over came the problem with tutoring (we use to home school) but it shattered my naïve opinion that all schools are equal and every student in every school has the same opportunity to succeed.
My last of four is ready to graduate, we were screwed, and I do not want to use up my remaining energy to lead an effort to change this disparity. I would prefer to work with their colleges now - which is the present not their HS, which is the past. I do want others to be aware about of the situation so if they have elementary children slated for a high F&R HS school that they either move to a low F&R neighborhood or start the push now to get equal access. I am not sure if this is a zero sum game and getting AP classes in high F&R schools is going to take away from powerful low F&R school lobby but if so that that will be another huge obstacle.
I'll say it again... the
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 11:14 — rr77rr99I'll say it again... the parents and/or guardians have to be held responsible. Make them come and shadow at school for the day, make them sit in "in school suspension" with the student.
I don't see why it is a problem WCPSS has so many suspensions. GOOD! If these kids don't want to be in school, then it's the parent's problem. It is not WCSPSS's problem to "rehab" or "babysit" violent offenders, drug dealers, etc.
SCHOOLS ARE FOR LEARNING... if a kid does not want to be there to learn, the parents have to work out alternative schooling then.
ENOUGH! Stop burdening the teachers and administrators with this nonsense. Good for you WCPSS..suspend away...
It takes a village
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 16:21 — MomknowsbestIt takes a village ...but ultimately the parents/guardians should be there for them. I agree that disruption, violent students should be removed from the school so that other students can learn in a safe environment. Those suspended should be sent to an alternative school or 'boot camp' to straighten them up. Parents of these kids should also be sent for counselling, parenting classes or made to pay a fine. Anything to get their attention that they need to be involved.
I certainly would not want my children to be in an unsafe school.
There has to be a better way
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 23:57 — RevHiDThere has to be a better way to provide discipline and order in schools than to reward irresponsible behavior with more unstructured free time. If you can argue that an extra hour of free time on Wednesdays is too much for the average kid to handle, then imagine what giving a long-term suspension does for kids who are already demonstrating behavior problems.
Relating Wacky Wednesday to this issue?
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 11:17 — stacy123"If you can argue that an extra hour of free time on Wednesdays is too much for the average kid to handle, "
I do not think anyone mentioned this in this post or on the post about wacky wednesday - the argument there was that it was very inconvenient for working parents to accomodate this and should be done during or after shool without changing the schedule.
free time
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 12:22 — SDR256Actually the Rev. is right. It has been mentioned. And I think he has a good point. Not sure how it is solved. Separating them from other kids is one thing, but in many cases this means just leaving them to their own devices. Not good.
Is it?
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 09:36 — Bob_SconceMy understanding is that there really isn't any such thing as a long-term suspension or expulsion. The district still have to provide an education, which (IIRC) is what Phillips High School is for.
Rightly or wrongly, when a student is expelled, the rationale is really on not letting him/her negatively affect other students. The expelled student is of lesser concern -- there's only one of him/her.
I'd be interested to see alternatives, but it's not really possible to "reward" them by placing them in solitary confinement, toothpicks holding their eyelids open, forced to watch powerpoint slides about "The Great Gatsby."
Actually most kids who are
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 12:17 — KeungHui (author)Actually most kids who are long-term suspended don't get served in Wake. That was why Wake's decision to save money by closing down Richard Milburn High got so many complaints from the African American community. The courts say districts have to have programs to serve long-term suspended kids. It doesn't require every kid to get the service.
Time in jail might help
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 05:45 — red_balloonTime in jail might help with parole eligibility upon passing EOG tests.
My question...I would like
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 21:09 — dryeraseuserMy question...I would like to know, how many under the table issues that CMS look over that SHOULD bring cause for a long term suspension. I don't look at this as something bad that WCPSS is doing. I look at it,as, thank goodness that they take the responsibility and discipline the children. I will tell you one thing...the ones they suspend long term, especially in H.S., the public and especially the public that have children would be grateful that those kids are kept out of the halls of the schools. CMS, might be overlooking some serious issues, so that they "look good". Looking good, doesn't mean that you are "doing good".
24 times
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 20:55 — SDR256I just found the data point that Wake had 24 TIMES the number of suspensions as Charlotte staggering. How can that be right? Its not like its the water and somehow kids are born 'more bad' here in the Piedmont than in the mountains. What's up with the system here? Or, is this another one of those funny numbers that 'it depends on how you define a suspension'?
No no no...
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 21:34 — Bob_SconceThese are two lawyers whose jobs are to advocate to get students off long-term suspension and back into schools. Presenting a distorted view of the facts helps them do that.
The whole op-ed rings of selective data -- it's long on generalities
and short on specifics. The 24x number is probably based on the number
of students suspended by each district in July, 2008, or something.
This year, Enloe has had
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 21:27 — CaryCurmudgeonThis year, Enloe has had several lockdowns due to violent acts. A few weeks ago there were a bunch of students arrested at WF-Rolesville. My son is at Panther Creek and I have seen a student so violent that they had to be tased at a football game. Another student was suspended from Panther Creek and later went on to torture and kill a fine young man over in Apex.
The difference may be in how suspensions are measured. If we are going to attack this problem, I hope we pursue a solution which addresses the root cause of the violence because it does not seem like relaxing standards is the right way to go.
Correction
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 18:51 — anxious2010Enloe has had only 1 lockdown this year and that was a planned drill.
My hope, too
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 00:44 — TrailerParkGirl"I hope we pursue a solution which addresses the root cause of the violence"
Agree - it makes more sense to spend more time and energy on addressing root causes than arguing about which system better addresses the symptoms.
I keep thinking about that sentence in the statement of philosophy - "The educational process begins with the establishment of self esteem" from one of the districts where I'm from and the similar educational philosophy of the ES I attended.
http://www.wral.com/news/new
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 21:32 — AngelaWhttp://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/6357972/
An attempted murder charge has been filed against a 17-year-old accused of using a hammer to attack a female student inside a modular classroom at Southeast Raleigh Magnet High School last week, police said.
Was this a student with
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 11:17 — rr77rr99Was this a student with "special needs" (like behavior, emotional issues)...the one doing the attacking? If so, they can't be touched...only mainstreamed into stressful situations for them, the teachers, and the other students.
I don't think WCPSS is adressing this or parents are fully aware this is going on.
Just wondering what the full details on this situation were..but we are probably not allowed to know.
I am guessing the SAS
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 18:11 — MorrisVMorrisI am guessing the SAS weenies have never been assaulted by some of those thugs. Get these kids out of the school and into jail before they hurt someone.
Troll post
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 20:04 — Dadof3Please don't feed the troll.
Mr. Hui; what are you waiting for? You wouldn't tolerate this from any regular poster?
One of the things I can't do
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 20:25 — KeungHui (author)One of the things I can't do is ban a user on my own. That's a decision made elsewhere in the chain.
I forgot
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 20:31 — Dadof3Sorry, you told me that once already. Please yank the chain; unless N&O want this to be a replica of any other spam-filled, mediocre media blog (and perhaps they do, given Nov 3rd?)
In the meanwhile , we have to witness one troll's struggle with mental pathology.
Dad3 ... what is wrong with
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 22:23 — MorrisVMorrisDad3 ... what is wrong with you ... didn't you read the posts above about attempted murder, violent students being tasered, one killing another student. These kids are too violent to be in school. Liberals like you give these criminals too much room which results in assault and murder.
Is this what you want you children in class with??
An attempted murder charge has been filed against a 17-year-old accused of using a hammer to attack a female student inside a modular classroom at Southeast Raleigh Magnet High School last week, police said. This year, Enloe has had several lockdowns due to violent acts. A few weeks ago there were a bunch of students arrested at WF-Rolesville. My son is at Panther Creek and I have seen a student so violent that they had to be tased at a football game. Another student was suspended from Panther Creek and later went on to torture and kill a fine young man over in Apex.
...
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 17:54 — SideburnsMeanwhile, there are no bad schools in Raleigh.
Huh?
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 17:36 — Bob_SconceFrom the piece.... "Moreover, studies show that expulsions and suspensions haven't proven effective at increasing safety and order in schools, and in fact, have shown to have the opposite effect, increasing misconduct."
Something doesn't smell right there -- somehow the threat of expulsion means that it's more likely that kids will misbehave? I just don't buy it. I suspect those "studies" show that misconduct occurs most at schools where lots of kids are suspended, and then infer the wrong causal relationship.
Possible
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 00:58 — TrailerParkGirlIt's possible that the theory could hold true in situations where a) the student is beyond the point of giving a care and b) the student actually desires a way out of having to go to school. I suspect we have a number of students in this system that have been given up on by a variety of sources and have given up on themselves, education and on life in general.
Have to have a lot more information about the studies to make any determinations - lies, darn lies and statistics as they say.
“I suspect we have a
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 11:42 — user12345“I suspect we have a number of students in this system that have been given up on by a variety of sources and have given up on themselves, education and on life in general.”
I saw that mentioned concerning the recent big increase in Hispanic teen pregnancies compared to other groups with one of the reasons that the normal prevention techniques of getting the girls to envision how having a baby in high school would interfere with their plans for college did not work. Since these girls see no route to college, having a baby now is the same as later.
An increase?
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 12:45 — Bob_SconceIs there an actual increase in the rate of Hispanic teen pregnancies or is it just that they have a higher incidence?
This may be cultural -- poorer countries tend to have babies earlier. You only see the "wait until you're almost too old to have children" approach in first world countries.
It's too bad.... Early pregnancies undermine a core reason that people come here from Mexico and other Hispanic countries -- to have a better life. There's no better way to be stuck in poverty than to have a baby in high school.
why are you back and with
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 11:58 — AngelaWwhy are you back and with still nothing useful to contribute?
Hate to say this
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 12:33 — TrailerParkGirlbut user's post actually does have a valid point.
If students do not see college as an option, holding college up as a carrot to motivate them not to get pregnant is pointless. Then there are two angles: 1) find other carrots that the kids see as being reachable and/or 2) how to get the girls to see college as a carrot they can actually get.
Thanks .. some people are so
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 13:15 — user12345Thanks .. some people are so closed minded ...
That is where a bridge like VOTECH (e.g. cosmetology, health care) option or an associate’s degree at a community college might be an attainable first step.
The important thing is that not everyone sees the world through White upper income eyes with college being expected, attainable and what all kids do after HS.
and some are simply
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 16:17 — AngelaWand some are simply clueless, vituperrious and always looking to stir the pot.
the important thing is MANY more people than you care about ALL the children in WCPSS.
Well
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 13:50 — TrailerParkGirlkeep in mind that when someone numerous times posts things that are inflamatory, insulting and "off the deep end" that when they post something useful people are less likely to read with an open mind - sort of akin to the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. For example, your post makes it sound like all "White upper income eyes" see the world the same - they do not. Please try to understand that people who are white upper income get tired of having that kind of terminology thrown in their face. It gets really, really old.
Yes, there needs to be bridges and options. My hometown has both that you mentioned + an alternative HS with free on-site daycare. Let's also remember though that there are some 80% ED high schools in the US with 100% college placement rates. The other thing to remember is that we need to help kids see all the possible options long before HS, stop saying CAN'T and stop expecting lower growth from certain demographics. Oh, and bridges over stereotypes built by mutual respect would be very helpful.
“For example, your post
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 17:17 — user12345“For example, your post makes it sound like all "White upper income eyes" see the world the same - they do not. Please try to understand that people who are white upper income get tired of having that kind of terminology thrown in their face. It gets really, really old.”
It is not a crime to be white upper income. However, it is a crime to not consider other viewpoints. Personally, I find many people here to have lived sheltered lives and not have a real understanding of the issues. They have good ideas in theory but they need to remember that people have been involved in educational reform forever. It is a hard problem and much of the problem / solution is outside the school building. So, I simply find it amusing when people come down off the mount proclaiming what will make poor people rich or students genius because they have no grounding in the real world. IF it was that easy, we would have done it long ago. As I have said, I would prefer to hear someone who was poor and struggling with their kids’ education on how WCPSS can help than someone who rarely ventures outside their neighborhood and only knows life in theory. TPG you have convinced me you have some valuable experiences and background. Others seem shallow and clueless. I learn nothing new or informative from their rants.
Whoa
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 23:18 — TrailerParkGirlWow I stepped away from the blog for a few hours and well, wow.
Personally, I've learned a lot from most people on this blog, especially AngelaW and NOT just about YR. She's posted more information and article links about education than anyone.
How do you know who is coming down off the mount? Most people chose not to put much personal information in their posts, which I can understand. That means you and others on this blog do not actually know what their backgrounds are, how much they venture outside their neighborhood or even what that neighborhood is like. I think there may be a tendency to overfill in the blanks. I know there are people who come from humble backgrounds but keep that on the down low because there is so much stigma about being poor.
I apologize... got too
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 08:28 — user12345I apologize... got too excited …
“Personally, I've learned a lot from most people on this blog, especially AngelaW and NOT just about YR. She's posted more information and article links about education than anyone. “
“How do you know who is coming down off the mount?”
I say that because when I look at my high school and the one my wife teaches some of the suggestions do not seem based in reality. So, either some people live in a different universe or have no practical interaction with what is out there.
“Most people chose not to put much personal information in their posts, which I can understand.”
I am not talking about you work history and address personal. I am talking about personal experience. You give us hope that you hometown has more poor students and scores better so it can be done. Eric/SDR?? mentioned his kids had a Black friend who was transferred away because of rebalancing and they miss each other. One person mentioned her kid’s teachers do not have paper, which mirrors my wife’s experience so I know it is not isolated. I have related my anger having friends/coworkers relate all the AP classes that were available to their kids in their low LI school that are not available to mine because our resources are being used for LI. I think I have never seen a real person say their kid had a two or three-hour one-way bus trip (would get you almost to DC) and I assume that is urban legend.
“Overfill in the blanks.” I agree
“I know there are people who come from humble backgrounds but keep that on the down low because there is so much stigma about being poor.”
I am guessing people who are presently poor have little time to blog and the people who do blog are mostly retirees, stay at home moms and white-collar workers who are not representative cross section of the county. One segment but not the majority. I know the parents of the Hispanic girl who studies with my daughter after school who both have two job and don’t come by until late to pick her up don’t care about MYR or magnets assignments. They speak little English and do not blog. They just want a good solid education in a safe environment. I measure the suggests / idea on how it will affect their lives, her education and my wife's kids.
Urban legend
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 09:38 — SDR256"never seen a real person say their kid had a two or three-hour one-way bus trip (would get you almost to DC) "
I am a real person and I do know a Wake County child who travels for three hours every day getting back and forth to school. Yes, it would get you to almost to DC - as the crow flies. He has asked for a transfer as this much time spent on the bus is giving him back problems. Denied.
I remember you saying you
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 12:01 — user12345I remember you saying you knew someone knew someone who traveled a long way. I have been hoping to hear a first hand account from the actual parent who actually had this happen. Before someone would say they traveled a long way only to find out is was to a magnet they applied to or one parent mentioned living two miles from the school but the bus ride was over an hour because their kids was the first stop picked up in the morning ... both situation are not the norm.
As I suggested the way to solve this problem was to give any child traveling on a bus more than two hours one-way a free pass to the school of their choosing. That would eliminate the issue with the parents either taking action or remaining happy with the long ride. I have a feeling that such a policy would affect few kids but would eliminate all the angst over the issue.
Of course...
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:59 — Bob_SconceOf course it's not the norm. Can you imagine if it was?
But, the fact that it happens at all is reprehensible. No student in Wake County should have to spend 2 hours a day in transit, even if they are the first person on the bus or if they want to avail themselves of a magnet program.
"I learn nothing new or
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 17:51 — woodstock"I learn nothing new or informative from their rants. "
Trust me, we relate to your situtation...every time we read one of your simplistic posts.
You are awfully presumptuous of the life experiences of the posters here. Most people I know who you would consider "upper income" came from very humble beginnings and have built successful lives through education, hard work, and perseverence. I think that experience provides a pretty good perspective of what it takes to get ahead.
Woodstock you do not seem
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 19:19 — user12345I have no idea what you are
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 20:55 — woodstockI have no idea what you are attempting to say. What is a bot? Am I trying to benefit someone here? Are you? Have I "clawed by way to the top?" (That is news to me.) Do I have to personally experience broken homes, drug abuse, and alcoholism to have perspective? Is everyone who embraces conservative principles from well-to-do families? (My experience is exactly opposite of that.)
You have no clue to my life experiences, but you like to make assumptions about it. I promise you my life has had its challenges and that I have personally witnessed the worst that bad parenting can offer -- not my parents, but those I was close to and cared for. Yes, broken homes, drug abuse, and alcoholism can be devastating academically, emotionally, and socially to children forced to endure in that kind of situation. That is why I have stated that a new dynamic needs to take place in dealing with children/students that face those challenges. Bus rides and rubbing elbows with the right kinds of kids are not the answer. Effective solutions will only take place when we acknowledge the special challenges these at-risk students face and address them directly by utilizing appropriate community resources and stakeholders and providing the specific kinds of assistance they need. This requires efforts that go far beyond what can take place in a traditional school classroom.
as some one (else) who is
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 17:25 — AngelaWas some one (else) who is not "white upper income" and has offered many articles and ideas (including KIPP among many) and hands on work with ED, I find your posts nauseating, bigoted and clueless.
I feel the same about yours
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 19:08 — user12345I feel the same about yours
ha! you are a big
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 19:19 — AngelaWha! you are a big joke...I've been nothing but honest for years now on these blogs, you show up one day with your rants, insults, falsehoods and bigoted views of everything outside your own school....you've professed yourself to "not knowing enough" about MYR yet continually harangue people who are against it....to not knowing ES or even MS yet pipe in with your filth every chance you get. typical hypocrite
offer something useful like ideas instead of "cant's" and "won't work"....be the change you want in the world....*I* was this past election. put up or shut up.
Angela do you have any
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 20:03 — user12345Angela do you have any life, interest and awareness outside Leesville Elem. You seem to think that every thing revolves around your school. You consumed by YR. Seems like at least five other people here are in the same mold. With hundreds of schools in Wake not everything is about CCPL and not everyone who does not go to LE is the enemy. I know YR is big deal for you. I do not have an opinion. I will let the budget and capacity sort those issues out. So think out side the LE box.
"Hundreds of schools?"
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 21:20 — woodstock"Hundreds of schools?"
156 and counting
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 21:46 — user12345156 and counting
outside the box? get a clue
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 21:17 — AngelaWI did, idiot, WSCA and BTW...we won....just sayin'
"we" I assume you mean
Tue, 11/10/2009 - 21:55 — user12345"we" - I assume you mean Leesville Elem won? Like I said there are 154 others.