The Wake County school board delayed a vote today on adopting the school bell schedules to see if staff can make any changes.
Parents aren't happy with the prospect of starting most elementary schools at 9:30 a.m. The boad waived the policy saying the bell schedules need to be adopted by the end of March.
The good news for Heritage Elementary parents, regardless of the final board decision, is that staff now wants to move it from the first tier to the second tier. Originally staff wanted it on the third tier.
The board reaffirmed by a 5-4 vote the motion to put Supt. Del Burns on administrative leave through June 30. The board also voted unanimously to authorize board chairman Ron Margiotta to create a superintendnet search committee.
Comments
wish I had time to research...
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 21:27 — louiselee44Other systems make the early-elementary and later-high school bell times work - Guilford County is one, if I'm not mistaken.
A half hour does make a big difference
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 11:52 — gratefulforjobThe change was proposed for 71 of the district's 104 elementary schools - that impacts a large number of students. The change actually would have taken the start time from 9:15 to 9:30. Yes a small change but the impact on working parents would have been huge. Most schools only allow students on campus up to 30 minutes before the start - currently 8:45 for most elementary schools. A parent can drop off their child then and be at work by nine. But the new proposal would have meant no dropoff before nine - leaving a parent to be late every day (most parents I know have to be at work by nine at the latest) or putting their child in before school care - $90 a month for 15 minutes a day. And 15 minutes added at the end of the day does not mean that most parents would be able to quit paying afterschool costs. So please don't say that work times won't be impacted until you get all the facts. The wacky Wednesday policy left many working parents scrambling once a week this year and the board reacted by eliminating it only to then consider a proposal that would have had parents scrambling every day and that goes against the stability that the new board needs to be bringing to assigments.
I hear what you're saying,
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 15:42 — danofncI hear what you're saying, but I'd love to know just how many parents work close enough to school for that to make a real difference.
There are no changes they can make that aren't going to inconvenience some group somewhere.
For the $3 million or whatever the number is that the 15 minute change would save, what other options are there to save that money?
I would imagine that the parents who live and work within 15 minutes of their child's school are such a select group that even magnet parents would be jealous.
I would imagine that the
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 15:47 — jenmanI would imagine that the parents who live and work within 15 minutes of
their child's school are such a select group that even magnet parents
would be jealous.
The Bell Change Is A Great Idea
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 09:56 — RMC10Oh My Gosh! Will all the folks just quit complaining - it's a freaking 1/2 hour difference for almost all schools, many stayed the same. Did anyone look at the new proposal list before they signed onto to comment? One Half Hour Later - better bus times for students for sure, 1/2 hour more sleep for the growing youngsters, better conditions (daylight) to get on the bus, and for the working parents complaining, most schools allow students in the building at least 15-20 minutes before last bell, so work times should not be impacted.
The real upside is latch key kids will get home a half hour later - and be alone and out of trouble for an extra half hour. Students who have afterschool jobs should only be minimally affected - I would think 1/2 hour difference would still fit in with most afternoon schedules, as most working students are still out by 2:30 or 2:45. YMCA after school parents may actually be able to q uit paying, since most kids will not get home much before 3:45 - 4:00.
The Board has now delivered on THREE promises - better student times, removing socio-economic diversity by busing, and getting rid of PLC early releases - go WCPSS Board!
start times
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 21:19 — turnerk1The change was only for elementary school kids and they were already catching the school bus when it was light outside. I'd love it if my MS and HS child could start 30 minutes later, but that wasn't the proposal.
It is all about the $
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:18 — Solon77It is all about the budget. It would seem that with a potential $20m per year transportation savings (per Malone) in going to neighborhood schools - we should be moving ahead as quick as possible to allow a reasonable bell schedule to accommodate the ES families. Another option is to get the county/town/city to put in sidewalks and lights to allow students to walk to school. One cannot experience the true neighborhood school experience until you can walk/ride your bike to school.
I think both the HS and ES
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:22 — JSBinNCI think both the HS and ES needs - and MS too... need better analysis. Is there a way to put ES and MS kids on some busses, and MS and HS kids on other busses - with a paid WCPSS adult employee as supervisor? Somehow that to me has to be cheaper than the millions to be spent on new busses, more gas, more drivers and expanding mileage.
I wouldn't want to see young young kids with HS schools - but is there some middle ground here??
It would fill up some of these close to empty busses... it might allow for compromise on start and end times for EVERYONE... a little later for some, a little earlier for others. Maybe get to two start and two end times across the board.
And - it might be making better use of something and people we already have.
busses
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:39 — turnerk1They already bus MS and HS students together. My son's bus goes to three schools 2 MS and 1 HS.
ahh - ok! I didn't know
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:04 — JSBinNCahh - ok! I didn't know that some of those were already combined... thanks.
Millbrook ES and East
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 13:55 — jenmanMillbrook ES and East Millbrook MS students ride the same express bus. The bus driver makes the little ones sit in the front and the middle schoolers in the back. I also regularly remind my 6th grader that he needs to watch his behavior around the little guys.
thanks for this info. Is
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 14:13 — JSBinNCthanks for this info. Is that bus full... do you know?
No. My son says in the
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 14:35 — jenmanNo. My son says in the morning that its pretty full but in the afternoon its about half full.
One potential problem
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 22:18 — ego7601Although it may be a cost savings to bus ES/MS or MS/HS students together, it can also bring about a problem with bullying. MS kids can bully ES kids and HS bully MS kids. Also, the younger kids will be exposed to things on the bus by the older kids (like graphic images, drugs, cigarettes, weapons, etc.) I think Malone brought up his concern with putting kids of such varying ages together.
I agree. Hence the adult
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 14:13 — JSBinNCI agree. Hence the adult supervisor WCPSS employee... a separate person from the driver...
Despite the research
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:05 — Dove314My children reminded me that many high school students have jobs after school that they need to pay for their college educations so although they would like to start later and get the extra sleep, they need the time to earn money more.
In addition, while a 4 pm dance class may be an important elective activity for a child, the high schools themselves have many school related after school sports and clubs. Mine are actually more outraged that football and other sports practices along with band practice and many other WCPSS related activities would be made to start later and end later further jeopardizing their homework so some elementary school children can take an external dance class.
I think somebody did not quite do enough research into the needs of the high school population and went for an argument that was hoped to sell high school students and limit controversy..
This is definitely not the
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 13:52 — jenmanThis is definitely not the first time the later start time for HS students has come up. It was talked about seriously last year.
They were definitely set to act on having a later start time for some elem schools that struggle a bit. They were going to switch 2 third tier elem schools that have higher poverty rates with nearby 2nd tier elem schools that have lower poverty rates. Their reason was that they thought it would help raise academic achievement at the higher poverty schools.
I don't know what I think of moving the bell schedule at this point. I see both sides of the issue. But the arguments we heard from the BOE members last night are not new--they were made last year by different board members.
bus schedule
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:46 — turnerk1The biggest problem I see with starting ES even later is that many more kids will be left home alone in the morning to wait for the bus while their parents go to work (especially kids whose parents either can't get them to before school care or can't afford it). Also, many more students will have to be enrolled in before school care, a cost of about $900 per year. I wonder how much extra capacity there is available in before school care.
For the vast majority of
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:19 — danofncFor the vast majority of kids, aren't we just talking about 15 minutes?
The 9:05 schools are already going to 9:15, because they were only 9:05 because of Wake Wednesdays.
nope
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:22 — AngelaWPublic comment over, the board moves on to items on the agenda. Before the board now, are bell schedule recommendation for the 2010-11 school year. The proposal before the board calls for 71 of the system’s 104 elementary schools to operate from 9:30 a.m. until 4 p.m. – starting and ending 25 minutes later.
The school system runs buses at different times to allow buses to run up to three routes in both the mornings and afternoons. Currently, schools are scheduled to open between 7:25 a.m. and 9:15 a.m.
The move would allow the school system to save about $2.5 million and eliminated the need of 24 more buses and drivers to accommodate up to 2,000 addition bus-riders at four new schools.
Board vice-Chair Debra Goldman is worried about how families will be affected with children on different schedules and how getting out of school at 4 p.m. will affect children participating in after-school activities.
It doesn't seem like a lot on paper, but the impact can be great, she says.
Board member John Tedesco also has concerns about elementary school students starting school later. He says research has shown that they do better learning earlier in the day rather than later. Chris Malone doesn't support the proposal either for some of the same reasons.
Deborah Prickett says she would like to see high schools open at a later time … and thinks staff needs to look more at teens' schedules – saying that many need more time in the mornings.
The board unanimously votes against the proposed schedule. School staff will take another look and come back with different recommendations, if there are any
Will their research
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:35 — Dove314Will their research include that many high school kids work to pay for college?
What in that answers my
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:33 — danofncWhat in that answers my question?
Most of the schools proposed to change are already scheduled to go at 9:15 next year, right?
The 4pm dance class is a strawman, unless that child is at a Tier 1 or 2 school already. Good luck trying to get a kid out of carpool at 3:45 and then dressed and ready for a 4pm dance class.
It's usually close to 4 before I even get my daughter out of school because of the carpool. If it was 4:15 it wouldn't have a drastic impact on her life.
Dan--I also didn't think
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 13:47 — jenmanDan--I also didn't think that the 15 minutes was that big of a deal. But a few people have pointed out some issues with the 3rd tier schedule. Schools usually open up 30 min early for students to start arriving. If a school doesn't start until 9:30, parents who drive their kids to school can't drop off until 9--leaving no chance to get to work on time. Of course, the parent would have to work relatively close to the school anyway to get able to get there in the 15 minutes they would have if the school started at 9:15. But I have met a few of those people.
If the kid rides the school bus, it would vary. Our bus comes about 45 min before schools starts. If we were on the third tier that is proposed to start at 9:30, that would mean the bus would come at 8:45. Definitely not enough time for some of my neighbors to get to work by 9. With the bus coming at 8:30, most of them would have enough time to get to work.
I think those are valid concerns. I do agree that the 4:00 dance class wasn't a good example. My son gets out of elem at 3 now but doesn't get home until 3:45 so a 4pm activity would be pushing it for us anyway. Of course, he sits around for 20-30 min waiting for the bus to get there after school but that's a different issue. ;-)
there are other impacts to
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 15:34 — JSBinNCthere are other impacts to the actual schools too. field trips are a good example... schools have to wait for the busses to complete their morning runs before they have access to a bus for a school enrichment / field trip. If the 3rd run doesn't finish until 9:30 - that would translate to probably 10:15 at earliest - for a field trip pick up...
For schools that get out at 2:25 or 2:50... that isn't enough time to actually complete a trip because they have to be back dropped off at the school by 1 to let the bus go get ready for Tier 1 pickups.
I can imagine that some people might scoff at this as a legit example - but I think it's also worth considering. Having students participate in activities at the museums in Durham or Chapel Hill, Raleigh - etc - it's great experiences for the kids. These might not be possible for some schools... which goes back to a certain degree - on the "equality" or whatever - across all schools.
I don't know if I am explaining this well... :)
I forgot about the field
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 15:46 — jenmanI forgot about the field trip aspect. Our middle school science teachers wanted to go to the Life & Science Museum in Durham but we had to do the Raleigh Natural Sciences museum instead because of the bus situation.
You are explaining it well,
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 15:44 — danofncYou are explaining it well, but there are activity buses and buses that aren't a part of the 3 tier system (25% of all buses, I think they said) that could fill that need.
9:30 AM start time, 4PM end
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:46 — AngelaW9:30 AM start time, 4PM end time for ES
Flipping the HS bell
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:18 — DrActualFactualFlipping the HS bell schedules with the ES schedules was discussed once before when BOE member Bill Fletcher was in office. Even though research at that time indicated the HS students had higher achievement scores if they had later start time WCPSS chose to leave the bell schedules as they were so that HS students would be home to watch the younger siblings when they arrived home. It seems that we all want higher achievement but it always takes a back seat to every other issue that arises.
let's be consistent with goals for students
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 09:25 — louiselee44I've got tons of research material on this. I was told back then, and more recently, that it all boiled down to not enough buses. I think it was Kevin Hill last night who kept saying it was a budget issue. I know we have to be realistic, but should we take students' academic performance out of the picture? Not in my book...
Couldn't high school
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:42 — Gr8SchoolsCouldn't high school students drive younger siblings to school?
Why don't we
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:01 — g88ky07just have every student with a car and license, pick up 4 - 8 kids and take them where they need to go on their way to school? That should fix it!
Isn't it illegal to leave kids at home alone and certainly to make them responsible for catching a bus!? How young is too young? 4, 5, 9?
too young to be home
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 21:57 — turnerk1A friend who is a lawyer told me once that there is actually no law that tells a parent when a child is too young to stay home alone, just that the parent has to feel that the child is mature enough to be home alone. If there is a complaint then a social worker can investigate and if he/she disagrees with the parent then some kind of neglect charge might ensue.
No law, but just the same
Wed, 03/24/2010 - 10:01 — LongtimeLurkerthis is an important question. Getting kids to school is a finely balanced act.
From racing to work after getting my kids off to school for the best part of 20 years, I can testify that moving the bell time back even slightly will lead to radically different parental strategies on how to keep your job and still take care of your kids. One of the options some parents will be forced into is leaving the kids to manage the chore alone sooner and more often than we do now.
(oh, to explain the 20 years thing. It wasn't that I babied a child or two all the way through to college - I just had a lot of kids.)
No
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:46 — Dove314Most are driving with restrictions ranging from a learner's permit requiring and adult over 25 with 5 yrs of experience to other restrictions.
It would take one well-publicized accident of a high schooler and a baby brother or sister dying due to driving during morning rush hour and driving laws would be revised to preclude that completely.
Very true.
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:49 — Gr8SchoolsVery true.
Excellent point, Dr.
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 20:21 — woodstockExcellent point, Dr.
Bell schedule
Tue, 03/23/2010 - 19:45 — shank56I think I heard several of the BOE want another plan to satisfy EL parents upset over late start times and to shift the later start time to HS students.
You youngsters who haven't gotten there yet may dismiss this now, but a firestorm will brew on the other end from HS students and parents.