Broughton's impact on reassignment

My kids are far, far away from being in high school, so I have been reading this thread and trying to observe/process the two sides of the debate.

The IB program is strong, good and beneficial to the school - and community no doubt. A lot of time and effort has gone into creating and keeping that enviroment moving forward.

The school population itself *seems* to be falling outside the true measures for being deemed at magnet school... low F&R, etc.

One of very core problems (to me) with WCPSS is that it's all or nothing. If you are a magnet school - you are permitted to offer the extra's/etc within the cirriculum, and funding is provided. If you are a base school - nothing extra allowed.

Why can't there be a middle between these two extremes? Is it not possible to remove the "magnet" status of a school, but retain most if not all of the program via school/PTA/private/partnership funding IF THEY SO CHOSE to do it? It would take a continued commitment on the part of the school and parents attending - but so be it. If you have skin in the game - you're likely to care. If you don't - well, it's not tax payer dollars (or whatever it is...).

Similar to Olds being demagnetized - I think I have heard (or read, out here) that the school/pta wants to try and keep parts if not all of their program/realationship in tact since it's taken a great deal of time and effort to build that truly unique enviroment. If the school community is committed to doing that - why on earth is there a policy in place that forbids them from doing so? Heck - why can't ANY school - if they have the support of the parents/staff/administration innovate and create unique learning opportunities for it's students?

Can anyone explain the history of this to me... how did we get to this point?

I think that the WCPSS/tax funds used to subsidize the IB program at Broughton could likely be used in a better way to help rescue some schools that are far more needy at this point in time. But do I think the program should just go up in smoke?? NO way - what a waste!!

How much would it "cost" Broughton to continue the IB program? Does anyone know? Are all the other IB schools in the South/USA run in the same fashion/model that WCPSS uses?? (like they are magnets with seats going to a % of base, then lottery, etc...) Or are some of them strictly application schools? (no base or base of only F&R lunch children??)

Thanks for any info - and sorry if this is a totally insane idea... I really don't know a lot about how the program got started, etc.

SE Raleigh mom really misses the point, and jb's body is spot on.

The fact that Broughton is a magnet school means that it attracts (hence the 'magnet' metaphor) students from all over the county. Understand, as JB's body noted, that it is a small number of those very "elite" itb individuals that are seeking to ELIMINATE the program to serve their selfish and temporary desires. These are (between 40-75) people not participating in the IB and will be the first ones to bounce and send their kids to our lady of white flight academy when the school declines again in a few years without the magnet/IB.

In other words, you are precisely wrong, SER mommy. Sorry to mess with your preconceived notions, seemingly cooked up some time a generation ago about Broughton etc, but it's the truth. That small number of parents trying to eliminate the program (one of the most successful public school IB programs in the US) are seeking to prevent students from across Wake co from attending "their" school...why would you support them, as their goals entail cutting a program that currently is available to a majority of hs students from across the county.

Shoot yourself in the foot at your own peril, but don't blame me for letting you do it in abject ignorance.

Jones Sausage--I do understand that it boils down to *some* of those base parents having the attitude that Broughton is their 'birthright'. Part of me thinks that removing magnet status lets these parents 'win' by dictating what everybody else gets according to their own needs. I really hate giving people who seem to care only for themselves what they want for political reasons. Wake Families for School Choice all over again.

I also see the value of Broughton's program and all of the time, money, training, and hard work that has gone into it. I *am* torn about that. But the truth is that Broughton does not meet the criteria for magnet status anymore. If there weren't other high schools that needed help I might think differently but giving Broughton all of these extras doesn't make sense in light of the troubles facing Knightdale, Cary, and Millbrook HS.

I know that not all of Broughton's non-F&R ITB base is wealthy or politically connected, but its also not like they are on the verge of poverty. They are like the rest of us normal middle class people--not super rich but comfortable and very fortunate compared to many others. So why do they deserve extras that the rest of us don't get? Not just the IB courses but the other AP classes, electives, honors courses, etc that non-magnets aren't able to offer because they don't have the students to support them. Its frustrating.

I could also understand it if they were being asked to 'endure' high poverty levels at Broughton. East Millbrook has some higher income neighborhoods assigned to it but they are dealing with 47% F&R, which I seriously doubt people ITB (north/west of Capital) would tolerate.

I am definitely not 'aligning' myself with the parents wanting de-mag. They would most certainly be opposed to my belief that they should be removed from their magnet elementary as well. Makes no sense to give extras to people living in $700K houses when the rest of us get the bare minimum.

jenman/raleighreader, do allow me to clarify a few things for you:
It seems like some here are misunderstanding exactly who is leading this drive to get rid of the Broughton magnet...it is the very people you've been villifying unknowingly: a very small, but vocal minority of connected, entitled ITB parents (spurred on by Bev Clark) seeking to destroy a successful IB Magnet so that their temporary and individual concerns may be met.
Why? Because they believe that if the magnet is continued/expanded, then they will lose "their" seats at Broughton in place of some magnet kids. In other words, they don't think folks from the rest of the county have a right to go to the school as much as their kids do and that a magnet program might endanger what they see as their birthright to attend Broughton.
On the other side, you have some other ITB parents, nearly all current and former magnet parents, and most of the rest of the entire school community fighting to keep the magnet, as they have seen and experienced the growth and success of the program--a program open to students from all over the county.
So, align yourself as you choose, but I wanted to help inform you of exactly the fault lines that have formed to help inform that alignment...I'm sorry if this requires you all to go off script for a few days, but that's the reality.

The man was healthy in the first place because of the meds. This trope that BHS would be 'healthy' without the magnet is bosh; it's only healthy in the current state largely because of it.
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JonesSausage--If this is true, then every non-low income node should be removed from Broughton. All magnets should have only a low income base or no base at all. Period.

I think the truth lies in that BHS could be given a 'healthy' base without magnet status, but the higher income families would no longer be happy getting only what the rest of us get. They will gradually leave for 'better' schools (Enloe or private/charter) and then everybody will cry about how Broughton needs a magnet again to draw in the base.

I've said it a million times before, but if what the rest of us get is not good enough for some of these families then GOOD RIDDANCE. If they would be willing to fight for better academic programs for us all then I could get behind them. But many of these families are only concerned with getting more for themselves and to hell with the rest of us. Harsh? Yes, but I'm sick of the BS and pussy-footing around. I'm tired of the school system bending over backwards to please the ITB crowd. They know its their bread and butter--they have to keep them happy to get any future bonds passed. Enough already. Its time to care about academic excellence for ALL of Wake County, especially Eastern Wake and Garner.

I really don't understand all this mental effort to try to grasp the minute details of one F&R exchange for another, the dynamics of a magnet program being moved, etc, when it is clearly rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Consider this. Chuck Dulaney (King Charles) entered the Cary High to 400 irate parents. My husband and I happened to be speaking to someone in the back who works for Growth Management. He was almost breathless with anticipation to hear King Charles announce the changes that would clearly relieve the anxieties of a large majority of the room. They clapped, cheered, the crowd went wild. King Charles responded by reminding everyone that this was NOT a popularity contest, NOT a poll. REMEMBER, there were only five votes in that room that mattered, and they were those of his staff. We needed to pipe down. (Don't get too passionate about your kids. Its not politically correct)

Even so, the news took the steam out of the outrage. Brilliant move. Two days later he slickly recinded it. He averted the necessity to listen to their tedious complaints. Think about that for a minute. TWO days. HE KNEW as he was standing there in front of all those shining, hopeful faces EXACTLY what he was going to do about Broughton. It has been in the works for some time now. So what is that? A bold faced LIE? I'd say so. Wow. This guy is dangerous.

And now, these poor innocents may be at home cooking tonight believing that they got what they wanted. Ha ha ha. Really good. Really funny, eh? Wow. I wonder who he will wake up tomorrow and decide to play with? He has total control. Offer Cary one thing on one day, Broughton another on another day, but its all not final until Feb 8, or until he says so. He's told us that. Were you listening?

I thought it was a quintissential chess move that King Charles offered the heads of one set of families over the heads of another set, and now they are all working furiously in the background 'against' each other. Neighbor against neighbor is a great distracting technique to keep us from seeing the real root of this problem! Growth Management needs to GO. They have WAY too much power and no accountability. They are paid millions. They can have their way with your children and no one will blink.

Broughton parents. Learn from what happened in ?Cary on Monday. You cannot trust this guy as far as you could throw him. Regardless of what is said, talked about, promised between now and Feb 8, it ain't over till its over. And would someone please remind me when this Groundhog Day reassignment nightmare will be over? Oh, yeah, not until we wake up and realize that it is Growth Management creating the emergency that we then desperately need them to fix. (who can spell job security?) Growth? Cary has 22,000 children and 25,000 seats. Hey, wait a minute...I thought Cary was the hotspot for growth? How could that be? They have plenty of seats for their children? And so does Apex, Garner, and Holly Springs? Gee....huh.....WAIT! Could it be that its NOT about growth? Its someone's political social agenda. And there is nothing they would enjoy more than to see Inside the Beltline parents at war with Cary parents.

Unite or submit to tyranny.

I see where the 20% is coming from. It is for 07-08 and the figure I have is for 08-09, although it is not from the 'official' spreadsheets that they publish each year. It is info compiled for a work session at the end of Sept, but it should still reflect the same 20 day figures that they use for the 'official' document.

Thank you for explaining the other stuff. I will have to figure out the number of kids from each 'low income' node who are actually low income.

There are a few things in this new proposal that are confusing. The first is the whole LI/F&R thing and the other is the 'we're moving these kids so they will go to middle school with their peers' thing. Some of the kids wouldn't have to change middle or high school to move with their peers if they hadn't been moved 15 miles from home for elem school in last year's proposal. (!) The language just seems to be a smoke screen for some of the true intentions of the plan. F&R is rarely brought up as a reason for moving kids into or out of schools, but I know that's one of the main reasons for some of the moves. Tricky, tricky Mr. Dulaney. lol

The Broughton issue is a hard one. I can see both sides of the argument, but I'm inclined to believe it should be demagnetized. I wish I had been at the meeting yesterday like Lisa B was. I was at the work session where they de-mag'ed Daniels and it was very interesting to hear the discussion.

Mom of Two Teens--I am not sure how the F&R will be anywhere near 33%. Broughton has a net loss of 243 base students. 89 of those are from non-F&R nodes and the rest are from F&R nodes. It seems like Broughton will have fewer F&R students next year in the base population. Lower income magnet applicants generally have a harder time getting into magnets so I can't imagine that Broughton will see a flood of low income magnet students to raise the F&R that much.

Also, that 33% figure is not accurate, or at the very least is misleading. I noticed that in this year's assignment plan, they used LI (Low Income) instead of F&R. I also noticed that in many cases, those LI percentages were way off of the most recent F&R stats released for this year.

I emailed my BOE rep and CHuck Dulaney to ask about it and was told that this year they are estimating the number of low income kids in HS by using the elem school F&R rates of the nodes assigned to Broughton. I have heard this argument before--that the lower F&R rates for HS students are not accurate because they are less likely to apply for F&R lunch (social stigma). Chuck explained that the LI figures for HS will look different than the F&R figures but that the elementary (and middle, to a lesser extent) schools should be pretty much the same.

That makes sense and I understand that reasoning. BUT, there are elementary schools with figures differing by large amounts. For instance, our elem school (Wildwood Forest) is Title 1 for the 2nd year in a row and had an F&R of 35% last year and 39% this year. In the assignment plan, however, we are listed with an LI of 26% and 30% respectively. That make no sense because in order to be Title 1 a school has to have at least 35% F&R so there's no way we can be at 30%. Fox Road Elem was 53% F&R last year and 62% this year but their LI for those years is listed as 39% and 45%. That's a huge difference and I asked for an explanation but I haven't heard back yet.

Also, you are comparing an F&R of 20% (the most recent figures from WCPSS have it at 25%) with an LI of 33%. You need to compare F&R to F&R or LI to LI. According to the plan, Broughton's LI this year is 29% and is projected to be 32% in 2011-12, an increase of only 3%.

For comparison, Millbrook's LI is listed as 43% this year is expected to go to 47% in 2011-12. Sanderson is 40% this year and will go to 43%.

So I don't trust those LI figures until I hear more about how exactly they came up with them and why they are differing so much for some elem schools. I haven't checked all of the schools, just a few and those 2 (WWF & Fox) were standouts.

Sideburns, It's not entirely true that Broughton lobbied hard to keep their magnet program. Many people kept quiet because they were unsure if 30% magnet population would be enough, and they didn't want to see large areas of the base population being forced out. The fact is that many parents at Sanderson and Millbrook are also pushing for Broughton to lose it's magnet program so that their schools won't lose seats to Broughton students (ripple effect). Why do you assume that this change at Broughton will impact Cary and Apex? The Board asked Staff to look at developing a HS magnet progam at Millbrook or Knightdale, which would certainly not impact you.

While I do have friends whose children attend Broughton (and I have only heard POSITIVE things about the school) I do not personally have a stake in what happens at Broughton (but of course I've learned to say 'never say never'). I do have to say that as an "outsider", listening to the speakers at yesterday's board meeting convinced me that Broughton does not currently meet the necessary criteria for being a magnet school.

We have never been lucky enough to win a seat in the "magnet lottery" so I am not extremely knowledgeable about the magnet programs. BUT, evidently there is a test and a "score" that determines whether or not a school meets the criteria, and it didn't sound like Broughton is anywhere close to the range necessary to keep the magnet program intact.

Again, I am speaking purely as an outsider. This seems like it's going to be an emotional battle for some time to come and I feel sorry for everyone involved.

WCPSS has been working for months on the reassignment plan. If the School Board wanted to de-magnetize Broughton, why would they have not made that decision earlier? All of this churn could have been avoided by ensuring a magnet strategy was in place BEFORE redistricting 28K students.