Millbrook High School is taking a beating from parents at other schools during this reassignment season.
As noted in today's North Raleigh News article, parents complained about Millbrook during last week's community engagement meeting at Knightdale High. In particular, some Baileywick Elementary parents say changing the high school assignment from Leesville to Millbrook will have major repercussions.
Shila Nordone, chairwoman of Baileywick's growth management committee, said the school is still recovering from the last plan that led to the reassignment of many PTA leaders out of the school.
Nordone said now telling families that they're going to Millbrook would harm Baileywick even more by causing families to flee to private schools and charter schools. She said parents consider Millbrook to be "struggling," especially compared to Leesville.
Also at the CEM meeting and the school board meeting earlier that week, some parents said Millbrook needs the International Baccalaureate program more than Broughton High. These are the parents who hope that demagnetizing Broughton would allow them to stay at the school by eliminating the need to free up seats for magnet applicants.
Millbrook was also a punching bag for parents in 2006 when Wakefield parents didn't want to be reassigned to the school. Some Millbrook parents were complaining that Wakefield parents were making the school sound like a war zone.
Comments
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Wed, 12/03/2008 - 09:08 — Voice_of_Reason_.
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Wed, 12/03/2008 - 09:07 — Voice_of_Reason_.
Response
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 22:57 — Voice_of_Reason_Re:
#2 - Technology to do this is relatively cheap. Schools that have problems need full time security observation. I believe a good expenditure in schools with problems.
#3 - If teachers were given power to punish for disruptions with backing from the school admin, I believe a lot of disruption problems would fade away. There are methodologies that work, the trick is following through with real punishment for real offenses.
#4 So what if you upset the parents in these cases, I sorry but maybe they need to be upset. As far as keeping kids out of classes, I would rather force children to after school detention or Saturday detention is necessary. I believe that society has only the obligation to provide access, not ensure against failure for those that don't try. I would also provide good counseling to these children.
#6 I should of said that grouping for core subject areas only. I realize that this is done now to some extent. AG grouping should be done at ES school level. MS and HS have good programs at most schools to challenge AG students. (at least in my daughter's case).
Your comment about #8 which you labeled #7, is a problem I recognize. If a teacher wants to teach at Davis Drive, they should not get the same bonus amount. Maybe getting better teachers at lower performing schools would not be a problem.
As far as the other comments: I went to a Catholic school in a small town in South Louisiana, the income levels of families ranged from poor to relatively rich and it did have an ethnic mix (albeit predominately white (segregation ended when I was in ES and there still was a black Catholic School catering to a small Catholic black population)). The State of Louisiana paid for busing and books in those schools (SCOTUS has ruled this is OK). BTW - I didn't have air conditioning in most of my classes until 9th grade and the facilities were far less than WCPSS schools. Please realize, the culture of South Louisiana is different than most of the South or even New Orleans. I went to LSU and had an ROTC scholorship my last two years. I did not have a car and did not live at home.
As far as liberal policies, I am more against extremism than liberalism in general. I am for less government, but realize government has a right to regulate to ensure liberties for all. I also believe in equal opportunities for all. But those that make use of those opportunities have a responsibility to make the best of them. I also think we should help those that can't help themselves, but we have gone too extreme on that one. I could go on and on...but you mentioned health. OK I do benefit, but it was an earned benefit I got from the military (I have a 40% VA disability rating). My family also benefits because I am retired but I do pay some for that coverage. That being said, government managed health care leaves a lot to be desired. There are few doctors that take my plan (UNC mainly) because it pays them so little (same as Medicaid). Dental Insurance is out of my pocket. The VA has long waits for other than urgent services. I have seen what gov run health care is like in other countries and hate it. We do not have enough doctors and unless they are paid more you will not get them.. look to the UK, they get a lot of their doctors from India and Pakistan because of that. But yes liberals do have some good ideas, but often their feelings get in the way of reality and human nature. And many liberals have good hearts, but their idealism clouds good judgement in some cases. Be assured I do listen and understand I don't have all the answers.
Ohmmm the ending part of
Fri, 11/28/2008 - 08:13 — vsheehanOhmmm the ending part of your email. IT makes it seem you thought I was judging you about said social programs. What I was saying is if you have said benifits you should thank a Liberal not bash them.
By the way I have experienced the VA healthcare system. It was better under Clinton but thats not saying much. Under Bush it has gotten worse then it has been since Vietnam times. I would never sugest changing the hard earned Employe Healthcare benfits Liberals got for the country with the VA system. I believe a signle payer system that incorperates our presnt type of insurance companies would be a much better idea and easier sell to conservatives.
More harm than good
Fri, 11/28/2008 - 09:43 — Voice_of_Reason_I see far more harm in liberal policies than good. Sure you can point out good programs liberals started but some are not a good as they seem. It doesn't take much looking under the hood to find the problems. The VA would be much better if they didn't take the indignant or low income drafted vets of Vietnam no matter how short or how they served (an I am not talking about injured vets - I'm talking about Priority 8e&g). They were allowed treatment to make the VA system infrastructure utilized when the utilization was low in the 80's) The law changed to stop that, but those already enrolled are grandfather because of liberals. This might sound mean, but it takes away care from injured combat vets and the pot of money is only so big, the VA shouldn't be a welfare service. The reason it is so crowded now is the Vietnam Era vets are getting old and the influx of Iraq/Afghanistan vets. The economic situation we are in today has it roots in the high risk mortgages pushed (forced) by liberals on the banking system. The best thing liberals did was the environmental regulations and OSHA. However, since the initial inception of them, extremists (especially environmental) has done harm by adding more and more regulation. I wish you could see what it takes to build a road or drill an oil well. So exactly, why do you wish me to thank a liberal for being liberal? One right doesn't correct 20 wrongs. That like saying I once gave a homeless man a twenty dollar bill, so I feel good (never mind he spent it on booze, it's the thought that counts). If I saw him do it, would it be right to keep giving him money, or get him help for his problem? Liberal policies are easy sell on the outside, the devil is in the details and unintended consequences.
Funny you end with that
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 05:30 — vsheehanFunny you end with that analogy. I always tell my kids do not judge the homeless or homeless drunks unless you want to trade lives with them.
I have heard the mortgage crisis was caused by Liberals ending redlining in the 70's argument. Many economist are always stunned by the argument. If that was the cause then the crisis would have happened in the 80’s. If the ending of redlining was the issue then it had the longest incubation period of any government enforced banking laws since the begining of such acts. 30 years is a pretty long time. What most economist not associated with any talk radio show will tell you is the problem started 71/2 years ago when congress and the white house got rid of Banking regulations. One of those regulations was who could give loans. Before the deregulation only banks with actual money could give loans. After the deregulation any Joe Smo could open up a mortgage company with no money and give loans. These loans were made then bundled with safe loans and sold to banks. The idiots on Wall street that started the Mathematic formulations of risk bought them up like candy. Why?, got me the Formulas they used would boggle anyone who didn’t have a PHD in Mathematics. Well turns out those Joe Smoes on the whole were pretty dishonest and Wall street and the bankers did not pay closer attention or were to greedy to see they were being scammed. Now this is the reasoning given for the collapse by most economists. The couple I knew from home all sold their homes with in 3 years of the collapse and told their friends to do the same. That would be us. And we did get out right at the top and then bought in one of the areas economist said would be safe. NC for some reason did not have Jos Smoes making and selling loans so housing did not go up that much in price. If Economist who do not buy the ending of redlining caused the collapse but deregulation did were accurate enough to sell at the high point 1 year to 6 months before the crisis do you not think that the reasonings they give for the crisis are probably correct.
This is so OT . You just cant handel the fact that Liberals have brought so many good things intoyour life. Next time just watch the Liberal stuff thats all I am saying. You may not like us but just like conservatives we have brought good things to the popullation of the USof A. I try not to be arrogant and assume all Conservertives are racist social Darwnist who are out for themselves. You might want to consider giving the same courtsy to liberals that is all.
OK don't feel too beat up - I am actually a nice guy
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 11:22 — Voice_of_Reason_I don't think of most TRUE liberals as evil or stupid, an don't think all of their ideas are bad. You sound educated and a good person at heart. I don't lump all liberals with the polical class of liberals when I talk about power. I do listen to others and will quickly re-evaluate when I hear good counter argument. As I said, good ideas may sound good and start good but the unintended consequences and details often ruin them. I rarely hear a liberal politician look at a failing program and fix it (except just throw more money at it). If you would read what I say, many of my ideals are liberal in your view, but my execution is conservative. Equality, equal access, and fairness in schools are common in both ideologies (leave the extremes out on both sides); it is the execution of the fixes I have a problem with.
As far as the mortgage mess, I trust my brother opinion who sits on a bank board in a regional bank, not talk radio. BTW- Where are the investigations? If the Republicans were to blame, do you think they would wait? The gas prices accelerated the problem that would of happened. The extreme price inflation in certain housing markets also staved off the problem for a while. But I do agree when banking regulations changed, we let banks get too big (henced the huge bailouts), but that was over 8 years ago.
By the way, I judge don't homeless people like you might think for the same reason you point out. All I am saying is a small amount of money though is not a fix to their problems. Most need other types of help. But sure, feed them.
I looked up Millbrooks acts
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 11:26 — vsheehanI looked up Millbrooks acts of crime or violence and it is double that of the district. I would assume that considering the acts of violence or crimes that bulling and disrespect would also be a problem at MS. A really big sign of student body behavioral issues is teachers leaving mid year and MS has had an increase in this type of turnover. You can not blame parents for not wanting their kids at a school with an obviouse behavioral problem.
So how do you fix it
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 12:20 — Voice_of_Reason_#1 - School Uniforms
#2 - Surveillance cameras and improved security.
#3 - Increase the rules, lower tolerance for infractions - but let principals use their judgement on punishment
#4 - Real Punishment that discourage misbehavior. And I am not talking about corporal. Use existing WCPSS special schools if necessary. Lunch detention where you just have to be quiet in a room just doesn't cut it for true problem students.
#5 - Provide more tutoring services when requested (subsidized by families when needed and parents can afford to pay - this should not be free unless the school as a whole is failing)
#6 - And group children that need to be grouped.
#7 - And things that are really not politically correct... drug testing when behavior warrants (with mandatory drug counseling, not criminal penalty) and parent counseling.
#8 Reward teachers that perform in these schools at a higher level than other schools.
This will not fix everything, they are just a few ideas, not just gripes. Liberals -- start your spears!
Happy Thanksgiving - Be very happy we live in such a prosperous country (and pray it stays that way)
A note from your friendly
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 21:12 — vsheehanA note from your friendly neighborhood Liberal.
#2 is already at most schools but when it comes to verbal bulling or pushing kids on stairs the staff never checks the tapes. It really takes a long time to do it. If the system was completely computerized and you could just put in camera # ,the time the incident happened , and the name of the student involved(facial recognition soft ware) would take less time. Less time to check tapes then staff would check it more often.
#3 WCPSS has rules against verbal bulling and other offenses that are small. The consequences usually are lunch detention or silent lunch. The problem is when you have kids doing those behaviors they are also probably such a bother in class that staff blow off little offenses were the effect of the behavior is felt only by one kid. Verbal bulling has only one victim while disruptions in class have 30 kids affected.
#4 What consequences could you do? If you give the kids ISS for small offenses parents get mad. As far as OSS the school system gets mad. Little Johnny is out of school to much that way and the punishment keeps Johnny from learning. You can’t give them chores to do that is against the law and calling parents dosen’t always work that great. I have a friend whose daughter talks in class a lot. As far as my friend is concern it’s the schools problem for putting students at tables not desks. Her Daughter still gets notes about talking and my friend blows them off .
#5 love # 5 wish that could happen. The next set of EOGs will cause something like this to happen. If your child gets a score below a 3 WCPSS by law has to do a Student Educational Plan. A lot of kids getting 2s in one test and do not have IEPs is going to put WCPSS in a rocky place. Kids already receive push-in services if they do not get a 3 on a pre-test so if they do not get a 3 after a year of push-in services WCPSS will have to offer something more.
#6 Not going to happen WCPSS just opened AG classes at Ag schools to any one in the AG base population who wants in. For Core courses it makes sence but for electives like JAVA classes everyone should get a chance.
#7 problem with this is staff at schools like Davis Drive that have parents who can afford tutors and educational enrichment activities get bonuses for doing the same or less work that staff at high F%R schools do.
By the way VOR did you go to a public school as a kid? Did you go to a state College? How about health care do you get it from your boss as a benefit? Did you get a chance to vote? If you answer yes to any of the questions I am sure you have thanked the many Liberals through the years that have kicked their assess in so you could benefit from the above programs . I am sure you realize that LIBERALS worked to guarantee you would have a chance in this world without having a super rich family. Plus I am sure you realize that George Washington acted as a Liberal when he refused to become King instead insisted on elected officials
another liberal view
Fri, 11/28/2008 - 15:54 — jmosterI am also a liberal - the problems with WCPSS are not liberal vs. conservative. There are serious problems in WCPSS but with the strength of families and communities in Wake, they've been hidden. This won't last forever.
#2 is already at most schools but when it comes to verbal bulling or pushing kids on stairs the staff never checks the tapes. It really takes a long time to do it. If the system was completely computerized and you could just put in camera # ,the time the incident happened , and the name of the student involved(facial recognition soft ware) would take less time. Less time to check tapes then staff would check it more often.
Good security is NOT at all schools. Even if they have it, they don't have the resources/people to use it properly.
#4 What consequences could you do? If you give the kids ISS for small offenses parents get mad. As far as OSS the school system gets mad. Little Johnny is out of school to much that way and the punishment keeps Johnny from learning. You can’t give them chores to do that is against the law and calling parents dosen’t always work that great. I have a friend whose daughter talks in class a lot. As far as my friend is concern it’s the schools problem for putting students at tables not desks. Her Daughter still gets notes about talking and my friend blows them off .
Parents need to be inconvenienced in order to get them involved. WCPSS also needs an alternative school for those who cannot follow rules at school.
#6 Not going to happen WCPSS just opened AG classes at Ag schools to any one in the AG base population who wants in. For Core courses it makes sence but for electives like JAVA classes everyone should get a chance.
Grouping students full time is NOT a good education. Students must learn to live and work with people of all ability levels - just like in real life.
#7 problem with this is staff at schools like Davis Drive that have parents who can afford tutors and educational enrichment activities get bonuses for doing the same or less work that staff at high F%R schools do.
Teaching at a place like DD is just as challenging as a low income school. The pressures are just different. Some of the best teachers at a higher income school could not teach at a low income school and vice versa. I do believe schools with many low income students need far more resources and incentives for teachers. Busing for economic diversity does nothing for the students and needs to stop. Schools need to get inolved in the communities and in some places, will need more money for staff and resources.
Grouping students
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 00:48 — Bob_SconceI was "grouped" in high school and then went to a highly regarded private college. I am unaware that I, or any of my classmates, have any issues living and working with people of "all ability levels." In my experience, that skill is so easy to learn that it comes without much real effort.
And, in fact, I'm not sure that skill is really all *that* valuable. High-ability high school kids end up going to good colleges (without low-ability kids), and get jobs where they work with other high-ability people. While that's certainly not always true (Doctors need to deal with their patients), it's true often enough.
Hope
Fri, 11/28/2008 - 17:31 — Voice_of_Reason_Wow, a liberal view against economic diversity busing, there is some hope. At least you see it really does no good. In fact, if you add the NCLB Title I smoke and mirror game of WCPSS, it even harms.
Other comments:
#2. Enhanced security is not needed at every school, if there is a problem...then fix it.
#4. WCPSS already has alternative schools for these children, they are underutilized.
#6. I disagree, there is plenty of time to learn the real world later, academics, not life skills is what is more important at that age. What are parents for?
#8 (your #7) The emphasis on teachers at high F&R schools getting better bonuses is mainly to keep good teachers. But I agree, the #1 issue in low performing students is not teachers, facilities, but the baggage that comes with low economic status. And that unfortunately cannot be solved totally in the schools. That is not my opinion, that is based on solid research on the problems of low graduation rates. What I do know is you don't solve that problem at all if different teaching methods and/or opportunities are not used. How can we if we shuffle that condition around. All that money to bus could be used for better purposes in high F&R schools like you alluded to.
Eh..
Fri, 11/28/2008 - 11:06 — Bob_Sconce#4 Expel the kids if they need it.
#7 So some teachers don't have to work as hard for the bonus. So what? That's true in any industry.
I'm not VoR, but I went to a very high-quality public school, run for decades by conservatives. I'm amazed that you're claiming that liberals are in favor of voting rights when a centerpoint of the Democrat platform was taking away the secret ballot in decisions to unionize.
Yeah and..
Fri, 11/28/2008 - 17:29 — Voice_of_Reason_I was pretty amused at the George Washinton example, conservatism is not totalitarianism.
Voting rights are taken to the extreme today IMHO. If a person that doesn't understand the issues and doesn't want to vote on their own desire, they shouldn't vote. The libs love to promise "the world" to "buy" votes to keep POWER. They really don't care about the little guy, only power. Just look at the last election, if I were a Democrat I would be ashamed of my electorate's lack of basic civics and current affairs. We as a nation should be angry at the press for their bias too.
Your right FOX news is
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 06:35 — vsheehanYour right FOX news is biased. For god sake Alzjeers(SP?) based themselves off of FOX. The owner of FOX isn't even an American!! How can you trust a media outlet in the US of A controled by an Australian. Lets boycott the biase Foreign owned media. I am behind you on that VOR.
I can't let they go by
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 09:23 — Voice_of_Reason_Fox is the most fair and balanced as analysts in independent organizations have proved. Yes they have a few biased programs, but the news is fair, BOTH sides are presented. The others are overtly biased, they have even said that they were in the last election. Give me a break; Rush Limbaugh was more fair than MSNBC, at least he admits his bias and admits if he makes a mistake (also he is not claiming to be a news program).
My favorite thing Rush said
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 12:24 — vsheehanMy favorite thing Rush said this month was about how Emanuel’s dad was one of the members of the terrorist organization Irgun that created car bombs suicide bombs and won their battle with England and created Israel. Yet before Obama was elected Israel could do no wrong in Rush’s mind it was all the psychotic Arabs fault.
These are a few of my favorite things
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 13:18 — Dadof3I'd love to discuss my support for Isreal or for free and open radio -- but, this is an ed blog, so I won't.
I am not saying
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 06:23 — vsheehanI am not saying conservatism equates totalitarianism. I was saying that for his time George Washington was a Liberal. All historians give him that title. Willing to think outside traditional views to improve life for all citizens not just guaranty good for the few is a Liberal mainstay. Even he knew slavery was wrong but he knew he could not get it into the constitution at the time without destroying the new government. He had no problem with women not having a vote!! Just think if that conservative view point had not been eradicated then Sarah Palin would have never had a chance to run for VP. Without her the New McCain would have had almost no votes. I loved the old McCain I wanted him in 2000.
As far as Liberals against economic bussing that has been going on since the start. Yes kids at schools with high F&R do not do as well as kids in schools with low F&R but you do not solve the problem by bussing kids far from their community. It’s a cheap and sloppy solution that does not work. Just wait till next year when all those kids who get 2s on the new test WCPSS will be up a creak with out a paddle and then you might see real change. As long as parents demand the school set up a testable Student Education plan for each student with a 2.
Grouping by ability is not an anti Liberal act as long as those in the lower groups are given the extra help they need to finish school with a degree that would get them into a good college. In the 50’s the grouping was done early in kids lives and then the kids were never given the help or opportunity to take the classes necessary for a HS diploma that was worth more than the paper it was printed on.
Teachers at high F&R schools get pissed around bonus time. They feel the system is stacked against them.
The sad part about the not putting kids in alternative schools is the best alternative schools work well to get trouble kids graduated and into a career or college. I have no clue if Philips is any good or funded well enough. I assume the reluctance to put kids there means it may not be that good or have enough funding to handle more kids then it has.
Expelling kids is just too much. There needs to be an alternative. For societies sake it is better to educate a shit head then to leave the shit head on the street. Remember the disrespectful, disruptive pain in the a$$ you educate well today will not grow up to mug and kill your kid in the future.
"Expelling Kids"
Sun, 11/30/2008 - 00:16 — Bob_SconceI'm not a fan of expelling kids willy-nilly--it has to be for something pretty serious. But, that is the appropriate punishment sometimes -- what do you do about the thug at Wakefield who pounded another kid's face into the floor so bad that he needs reconstructive surgery? Is it fair that other kids be exposed to this thug? If he wants a high school education (and, it's not clear that he does), then he can study at home and take the GED.
This animal may be physically in school, but that does not mean that he's getting an education. Heck--he's an 18-year-old Freshman (IIRC). Keeping this thug in school would be a waste of money. In addition, it would have a negative impact on other kids. Not only would they have to deal with him day-to-day, but they would also get the message "We won't kick you out if you try to kill another student." And, that's not a good message for any school to be sending to its students.
Incidently, you cannot equate classic liberalism (as in the "liberal arts") with modern-day liberalism. That's like linkng William Jefferson (the corrupt Lousiana politician) with Thomas Jefferson because they happen to have the same name.
First the person
Sun, 11/30/2008 - 08:19 — vsheehanFirst the person responsiable for the attack at WH is out of the school systems hand. He will be going to court. That example is a little to extreem for an example of the behavior we are talking about when it comes to expulsion. The behavior up for expulsion would have no way of ending up in court. We are talking about disruptive students not students who are violent to the point of incarceration.
Second you are assuming that I am judging Washington’s acts by a classical theory which we now call Libertarianism. AKA humanity will always do the right thing without pressure from others. I am judging the acts of Washington by modern liberalism. If I would judge Washington by a libertarian theory You would find he was bad Libertarian. By Washington believing in the rights of all not to be seen as property by individuals with all humans deserving rights no matter their ethnicity or culture he should of fought for the end of slaver in the USA. Actualy a pure classical liberal modern libertarian theory would assume that it would just happen with no one fighting for anything. Instead Washington was practical. He realized that the majority ofhumans care more about their own needs then the needs of others and that if he insisted on full rights for all then the USofA would of dissolved. Modern Liberalism sees the practicality in pushing for what you can without breaking the system. That human are not altruistic by nature and must be slowly pushed into doing the right thing so that the social system is not broken.
The BOE actually would not be judged as Liberal based of of strict theory interpretation. Instead the BOE’s past behavior has shown that they are more concerns with the needs of inside the beltline only. Therefore the BOE is really a protector of the Elite in this situation. That the needs of most people in Wake are being sacrificed to meet the needs of a few. The fact that the lost of those needs are not even helping those people it is meant to has noe effect but shows the BOE seriously has some problems.
Therefore the BOE is really
Sun, 11/30/2008 - 13:54 — gwaihirTherefore the BOE is really a protector of the Elite in this situation. That the needs of most people in Wake are being sacrificed to meet the needs of a few.
============
You're talking about oligarchy.
I think regarding the BOE as an oligarchy is quite likely a lot more accurate than using the liberal or conservative labels. Given that the BOE outrages both those with a liberal worldview and those with a conservative worldview.
Hmm..
Sun, 11/30/2008 - 11:31 — Bob_SconceRegarding your first point, I think we're talking past each other. Expulsion and long-term suspension are there for serious offenses where the student's continued presence in school would be likely to result in harm to other students or a serious impediment to their education. (NCGS 115C-391 gives the criteria, although it's unclear whether it's exclusive.)
Second, I was not referring to libertarianism. But, I'm not arguing any more because the whole thing is silly.
Third, I agree that the BOE's policies are intended to favor ITB and disfavor everybody else. That's why I support at-large elections--they would dismantle the gerrymandering that has allowed this to continue.
Amen
Sun, 11/30/2008 - 14:30 — Voice_of_Reason_BTW - How did Libertarianism get into this? I think that that view is far more radical than anyone here has ever spouted.
classic liberalism is what
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 05:28 — vsheehanclassic liberalism is what modern libertarianism is. John Lock was a classic liberal who would be viewed as a libertarian now.
Power versus politics
Sun, 11/30/2008 - 09:54 — Dadof3vsheenan, I largely disagree with the voluminous OT material you've written (a blur of misnomers, tangents and non-sequiturs for this format) BUT I agree strongly your "protecting the elite" sentiment, and this is where many of us at odds with the WCPSS/BoE will do well to focus and not interject our other baggage into the matter.
Oh get a grip no one else
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 05:30 — vsheehanOh get a grip no one else was around and me and VOR were having fun. Like VOR said in anouther section we were just enjoying our soap box time .
A well-greased grip
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 07:45 — Dadof3I'm quite unemotional about the whole matter, but thanks for the suggestion -- always a good one, in my opinion.
I followed the conversation and stopped myself repeatedly from jumping in for the main reason that this kind of dialog can push parents away from the kind of engagement we need to turn WCPSS around. Imagine a parent with growing concern about their school, and they come here to see a rather extended "liberal versus conservative" discussion -- they'll think they're at the wrong place. Many parents I talk to so easily disengage when "root causes" or a more general discussion of politics comes up.
I also needed a pith way to disagree with most of your political analysis ;)
No problem I knew it was
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 14:18 — vsheehanNo problem I knew it was less about OT and more about my point or VOR would of gotten spanked to. : )
Holidays over I will behave.
BoE does not allow corporal punishment
Wed, 12/03/2008 - 09:33 — Dadof3No spanks, just offering my ideas as to what I think is our shared goal towards better (heck -- any) parental integration with the WCPSS. Recall, too VoR did note my admonishments early on -- and he's military, so I did so gently... ;)
After a re-read to see how this all started,
Thu, 12/04/2008 - 21:55 — Voice_of_Reason_I said "Liberals, start your spears'; vsheehan must be a NASCAR fan.
Actually this was a fun and enlightening exchange. I have a better understanding of vsheehan point of view; there actually is a lot of common ground. No total agreement, but common ground; that would be a great start if we were in charge. As far as ncdad1, I think he is toying with us. I think he is probably a liberal elitist and is sticking his nose in the air at us (I may be wrong but it's a gut feel). His posts are strange, one minute he sounds illiterate and others not. His arguments seem disjointed and weak from someone with a master's degree (I believe on purpose). I don't see much hope in changing his mind like we have others. He views things with a different paradigm. It is also interesting to see un-lockstep the two liberal points of view are. I definitely think vsheehan wins the debate between them.
Anyway, this was a blog topic that was a bit fun in the first place. The author of the letter was very creative. Sorry we were so OT, but ...like it never happened before ;^). Frankly the Broughton and Cary thing was being well handled by those involved, I had some time and was a bit bored ....
Yes I know they read this, I don't like talking behind their back like I can with you. And vsheehan, I'll try to back off the UU's and I hope you back off the Bush bashing. The low blows are unworthy to the dignity of the office, he doesn't deserve them (other's did) -- PS, I don't like a lot of his policies either. The history book is still open on his legacy, time will tell. I do think the politics that were played out by the Dems during the war we are in are despicable and near treasonous. [But that would be another lengthy OT discussion I'm sure].
Nor would I, Re: the BoE
Sun, 11/30/2008 - 09:47 — Voice_of_Reason_I would but the BoE(eR) in the class of authoritarianism with servitude to the hand that feeds them (i.e.WEP). We need people in BoE with vision, accountability to parents, and a desire to question WCPSS actions. But that is not only them we have to contend with, liberal elements w/in WCPSS administration are also running the show day to day since BoE rarely overries their actions. This is where the liberalism comes in. BoE is rarely involved in this other than to rubberstamp WCPSS and share in their liberal awards when they get them.
As you guys bat the Liberal
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 05:37 — vsheehanAs you guys bat the Liberal word around again let me say thats where all this OT came from. VOR said Liberal come bash and I got into a disscusion with him about all the wondeful things liberals have brought to society. So if you would like the OT to stop stop making assumptions about the political motivations of those in WCPSS. Delaney is case in point. He thinks he is a liberal but infact he is acting in a way to protect the needs of a few at the harm of the many. Liberals on the whole believe in the most protection for the most people. To structure the system to help all while giving a little extra to those hurt by captlism. It would be more liberral to increase the funding at high F&R and to increase the support staff while decreasing teacher student ratios. I learned this from my college socialogist proffesor who put together the bussing system for MA. That fiasco realy screwed him up.
To understand Dulaney you must
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 08:55 — Voice_of_Reason_Understand where Dulaney is coming from. He is the type liberal that feels guilty for not being worse off or not having a disadvantage. Add to that you must understand the teachings of the UUE "chuch", where he is very active. What you espouse is moderate liberalism, one where a common ground can be found.
VOR Back off the UU I
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 14:27 — vsheehanVOR
Back off the UU I have told you many times that is my church. I have heard you views on the UU already and have finally stopped taking pot shots at you out of anger over those views. Leve the UU out of it until you have atleast attended a year at the church. Then you can say what you want but I am sure it will be differnt then what you say now.
I am not taking a pot shot, facts are not an insult
Tue, 12/02/2008 - 17:05 — Voice_of_Reason_What have I said that is wrong. It may be a fine fellowship, but in my OPINION it is not a church, that's all. Neither are the Freemasons, and they do a lot of good in the community and organize and meet. I don't say the members are bad or they are evil in intent. If you don't like the Liberal or humanist label on the organization, I am sorry; but everything I read about that organization points that way. Why I mention it the way I do is to try to understand Mr. Dulaney. The UU organization is very active in education and education policies; even they do not deny that. I also have stated a tenant of the "church" once to illustrate a point. You are free to worship whomever or whatever you want. You can worship yourself for all that I care; it's not my business or for me to judge. That is unless you try to interfere in my or others freedoms because of your beliefs. I am tolerant of your viewpoints, doesn't mean I have to agree.
It is not tolerant(god I
Wed, 12/03/2008 - 06:28 — vsheehanIt is not tolerant(god I hate that word) or RESPECTFUL to call anouther persons chuch a cult. You think that your opinion of said church gives you the right to make comments about said church members. If said person went to a Mormen meetingor Jewish temple you would never dare make the same comments.
I told some members about the reassignments and they did not even know it was going on and they would be effected. So that puts a hole in your theory as one of the families who didn't know about the assignment change for their own node is very active at church.
plus I know you made the UU
Wed, 12/03/2008 - 06:31 — vsheehanplus I know you made the UU comment because you LOST the saop box debate and you knew that comment would piss me off. Thats right you can act like a disrespectful moron and piss me off. Congradulations.
By the way ask any political science proffessor and they will tell you our founding fathers politicaly fit the definition of a mordern Liberal. ; P
Wrong
Wed, 12/03/2008 - 09:11 — Voice_of_Reason_No I didn't feel I lost the argument at all. If I used the word cult in the past and that offended you sorry, maybe I will use the words "humanist fellowship" instead. It was not meant as an insult, only to illustrate a difference in what the average person calls a church or religion. BTW- You have a free will to believe in a higher entity or not. I am tolerant of that as long as you do not deny me the right to believe what my faith teaches. I know the UU's allow that. I don't have the authority to judge your soul. And my only beef is calling the UU fellowship a religion. Yes, I know the definition is vague.
Also if you source is a political science professor, that source is probably biased, I don't know many conservatives teaching that subject. It also depends which element of modern liberalism you are talking about, from what I see that tent is very large. I guess that is vague also.
.
Wed, 12/03/2008 - 06:32 — vsheehan.
Comparing Wakefield?
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 10:19 — Voice_of_Reason_Wakefield has a high school,middle school, and three elementary schools in the development. Land for schools was planned with the development. WCPSS has overcrowded most of them. Wakefield HS has one of the largest ESL populations given to them by diversity busing. Wakefield is also somewhat isolated, the road that currently crosses the Neuse River is two lane and substandard. The new road and bridge is still a couple of years away. The road is treacherous in icy conditions especially by the bridge with high traffic volume. Baileywick is not even close to Wakefield, and the people in the development should know that they would be subject to reassignment. I think their case is very weak in comparison.
That being said, the real problem is lack of equity in schools, the magnet programs have served their purpose, it is time to move on. We as a people need to realize it is impossible to be all to all people. The responsibility of the school system should be to truly even the opportunities (not by lottery), not even out the schools by forced mediocracy with a side helping of "Rolex "schools for the priveledged.
Re-Clarifications
Wed, 11/26/2008 - 18:25 — local23Not sure where you get your info, but our neighborhood - Legacy at Carpenter indeed attends East Cary MS, West Cary MS and Reedy Creek MS. The children that catch the bus at 6:05 am indeed complain about going all the way over to East Cary. If we wanted to attend a MS school clear across town, then we would have moved there. Also, we have part of our kids attending West Cary (TR), so we have some kids going to a TR and some to a YR, what is fair about this, most of the parents here never know what hit them, nor do they really voice their concerns, because believe it or not, a majority attend a private or magnet. Most of us NEVER wanted MYR, especially for middle school.
We attend church in west Cary, play soccer and tennis, attend all of the community functions for our neighbors and pretty much hang out in west Cary - so other then sending my children clear across town - only to come back for HS (laugh - but we attend GH HS and Panther Creek HS), please explain the reasons again!
Why does WCPSS not choose a closer node to East Cary MS? We are actually the 2nd fartherest node that will attend. If you think a bus ride is 10 minutes, then you need to ride their bus to actually see what it entails! I am for diversity - we have a ton of it in western wake! Keep our neighborhood schools - please - the parents and kids are going nuts with all of this criss cross.
Let's also talk about work - RTP is here - imagine the nightmare when you need to get your kid to the dentist, which may be a late morning appointments - go from RTP to East Cary to West Cary (our dentist are across the street from our home), then back to East Cary and gosh - then back to work!
If you look at the node selection again, why are kids from Apex area (could attend Apex Middle) being bused to Mills Park? The cross busing is no longer effecient nor have they proven any of this is working and I mean hard core facts - actually following the high F&R% thru k-12. A lot of rhetoric again!
Why is the line being drawn at 55? Who is they? What about a circle with a radius. Normally you do not draw a line (that is longer), but a circle for feeder schools. We have been waiting a very long time for a MS in west Cary and please realize that GH ES (where we actually went two years on TR and absolutely loved it) and less than 1 mile from us!
Why can't we go to West Cary then with GH ES? These kids area our neighbors.
When does WCPSS ever listen to us = the parents? We do not want MYR. There is some growth on the other side of 55, but it has slowed down considerably.
Sorry you feel these thoughts are random, just trying to get all thoughts down quickly as a single parent, gotta move fast!
I am sorry you are being
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 04:19 — vsheehanI am sorry you are being bused to a MS you do not want to go to. Too bad WCPSS doesn’t pass out assignments in such a way you could trade your assignment with someone who wanted it. I applied for my son to go to ECMS and we did not get in. Our base is fine in most ways aand was one of the schools you mentioned you would like your kid to go to. ECMS is an excellent school with a wonderful community and I would gladly change assignments with you.
I am sorry you are being too
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 18:40 — BonniencVsheehan, what is the reason you did not say the name of your base middle school? I can guess which one it is. Sorry you had to try to get out of your base. There must be a reason you think ECMS is better than your base. The paraents who do not want ECMS, they think they should have closer base school, rather than ECMS. It is a very resonable reason. Sorry again, ECMS is not your base.
I get the hate the long
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 06:43 — vsheehanI get the hate the long ride and no community connection thing. I just wanted you to know the ECMS is an excellent school. The behavior of the kids there is the best I have seen at any MS in Cary. Some of the other well behaved MS in Cary you know if you turn your back the kids would let lose. The behind teachers back verable bulling is a symptom of that. In ECMS the kids act in such a way you get the feeling they would not let lose. They do not bully behind adults backs and those who try are shut down by other kids. I just want you to know even with the bus ride the school is worth it and in a way (in my eyes) you lucked out. Although I will say there are alot of kids in a lower math then they should be and that is caused by the YR aspect of ECMS not the staff or kids.
I do not want to name my base as our propblem should not be viewed as a good reason to not go to the base for most families.
Key Words and the Law
Sat, 11/29/2008 - 10:48 — Voice_of_Reason_Voluntary Busing when Title I schools fail Title I criteria and need improvement. It's the law, WCPSS has screwed up Title I to a point they can't even follow the law.
Either you believe in it and
Wed, 11/26/2008 - 17:15 — jenmanEither you believe in it and are labeled a socialist or you are against it and are labeled a racist. No middle ground for most.
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Very accurate observation. I'm for a diversity policy, just not the way ours is administered now.
MYR anyone?
Wed, 11/26/2008 - 16:36 — SideburnsI haven't heard any discussion about MYR in this year's reassignment plan. Is it really true that we have all been acclimated and don't care about our calendar any longer? Personally, I'm outraged that I am now facing 3 years of MYR at my middle school while my oldest is in high school. But, no one else seems to be making a stink.
Most people who don't want
Thu, 11/27/2008 - 04:22 — vsheehanMost people who don't want YR are just opting for their traditional choose.