It looks like school board members and county commissioners are going to have to settle for being disappointed with today's media coverage of the joint meeting.
During Wednesday's joint meeting, school board member Horace Tart brought up an argument that's increasingly being used by the district and its supporters. He complained that the media reporting that nearly 25,000 students being reassigned over the next three years "isn't the whole story."
Tart argued that the "real number" being moved is 10,000 students.
First off, Tart pointed out that the 24,654 student figure includes kids who haven't started kindergarten yet. It also includes kids who are not yet Wake students who are projected to move into the district over the next three years.
School officials say 20,230 students physically in the district now would be moved in the plan.
Tart said you also have to throw in the kids who won't be moved because of the expanded grandfathering adopted by the board this year and those whose transfer appeals will be approved.
Tart argued that it drops to around 10,000 students who will be moved over the next three years. He said that's some 3,000+ kids a year, less than those that have been moved in recent years.
"When you look at the actual number of students who have to transfer without a choice, there’s a great difference," Tart said.
Commissioner Betty Lou Ward said she hoped the newspaper heard that.
Commissioner Lindy Brown said she hopes the media will publicize that information.
Yes, it was heard.
But a big part of the reduction in kids moved assumes that all those families will take advantage of grandfathering options. Families, especially low-income ones, are going to be hard pressed to use grandfathering because it would require them to provide their own transportation.
Considering the other things that were discussed at the joint meeting, arguments about the number of students who would be reassigned didn't make the cut in print.
Comments
OT alert
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 12:09 — AngelaWGARNER (WTVD) -- Creech Road Elementary School was put on lockdown Tuesday because of a report of a shooting nearby. http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6675472
Man, woman shot near Garner elementary school
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4599284/
while "Support" may not
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 11:18 — AngelaWwhile "Support" may not support a Leesville conversion back since we seemingly yell the loudest, based on geographics alone it makes sense. Sycamore Creek less than 2 miles away is UNDER capacity and WILL be according to WCPSS projections, so WHY NOT Leesville based on those FACTS?? Because we made our facts known? Because it makes sense? WHY? or rather, why not? sour grapes? saving face? power plays? what OTHER reasons could there be? the FACTS SUPPORT converting Leesville Elementary back and NOT converting Leesville Middle...there is NO growth projected in the Leesville area and BOTH schools are coming in UNDER projections for next year.....
Why not Sycamore...
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 20:28 — supportwcpssWhy not convert Sycamore to traditional? I don't think it has anything to to do with the school as you continue to argue with numbers. I think it should look at a whole area and determine what is best for the whole area.
I think there was a cluster idea out there a few years ago that has some merits. As long as each of those areas had comparables F&R rates then I think that makes sense. But I think that might be difficult.
Converting Sycamore Creek
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 21:23 — Eric_BConverting Sycamore Creek to a traditional calendar is a good idea. Lisa Boneham (and others) suggested to Patti Head and the rest of the BoE that Sycamore Creek should have opened on a traditional calendar this year.
The Sycamore Creek building was not built in time for the start of the YR calendar, but it was ready by August 18th (before the start of traditional). We had to start the year at Hilburn then everything had to be moved to the new building over a weekend. Crazy! If the school opened on a traditional calendar this could have been avoided.
Sycamore Creek has 648 students now in a building that can hold 1,124 on a YR calendar and about 880 on a traditional calendar with no trailers. Growth & Planning's growth projections disagree. The cohort growth model shows growth of 75 students over 3 years while the ITRE model shows enrollment actually shrinking.
The BoE should convert either Leesville or Sycamore Creek back to traditional and keep the other school as a voluntary YR. This could easily be done, there would still be lots of capacity and it would help make Hilburn and York more healthy.
Chuck Dulaney has rejected this suggestion, saying the space at Sycamore Creek will eventually be needed in 5-7 years once Brier Creek Elementary fills up, even though Brier Creek currently has 200+ open seats.
because it opened as a year
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 20:45 — AngelaWbecause it opened as a year round, Leesville was forced to MYR...semantics to YOU, huge facts to the rest of us.
Given the both Sycamore(YR) and Leesville(MYR) and Hilburn (Trad) are under capacity and F&R% projections, I think that determines that MYR is not best for the whole area.
From what I have seen and
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 12:23 — Big_PictureFrom what I have seen and heard the Leesville group has never yelled. They are a calm unified group with solid evidence on their side. Keep making those facts known far and wide Angela. The only deer in headlights will be Patti H and Chuck Delaney when their *diabolical master plan* to destroy Leesville is exposed for what it is.
School Board Issues
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:01 — MAYORI believe I speak for the overwhelming majority of citizens in saying, "it's time for a change".
Without a doubt. Better
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:04 — Big_PictureWithout a doubt.
Better late than never. Go WSCA !
Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very, Very Disappointed in Horace
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 10:58 — stoopsI cannot pinpoint the exact date that Horace Tart got "plugged into" the Watrix, but I think it happened sometime during the 2006 bond campaign. Whatever the case, the Horace Tart of today is nothing like the one that I voted for.
Don't get me wrong. There was nothing unprecedented about his shift from parental advocate to WCPSS apologist. It's just that southern Wake County desperately needed a Ron Margiotta and, instead, got a Patti Head.
.
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 22:49 — g88ky07.
reassigned students
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 10:36 — rocket69I would define any student who is assigned to any school that is not closest to his home as "reassigned". This would include students who are enticed or lured to a distant school which had been designated a "magnet" school. Temporary reassignments are needed in order to fill vacant desks and to fill newly opened schools. If the newly opened school is closer to the student's home, the student is not a "reassigned" student, but a "geographically assigned" [GA] student. Maybe we need to use the term "socially assigned" [SA] for the ones that reassigned based on social engineering criteria. Winston Hooker, Cary, NC
I hate the “ don’t count
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 15:08 — vsheehanI hate the “ don’t count the kids who will be grandfathered” statement. Thank you Mr Hui for ignoring the blarney.
A huge part of Moore Squares base is slotted to move to Daniels next year. A number of those kids have their bus stop right on a corner known for shootings. A few parents give the kids bus money to catch the city bus 2 streets away from that WCPSS bus stop but the rest of the families choose to send their kids to a corner known for gunshots. If the parents have no problem with the bus stop being in a shooting gallery then I do not think the parents will care what school their kid goes to.
The funny part is the Daniel’s kids slotted to go to Moore Square next year are not F&R and I am quite sure the kids will take advantage of the grandfathering. Moore Square’s 8th grade will be a ghost town next year. Daniels will be a mess.
On a side note, don’t you love how much love WCPSS shows these F&R kids. They care so much about the kids that they have the bus stop at a corner where the neighborhood feels is dangerous. AHHH can’t ya feel the love. Yes I understand the neighborhood has spoken to WCPSS about the bus stop but as it has not moved we can guess how WCPSS felt about the parents request.
It is shameful that our
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 15:19 — Big_PictureIt is shameful that our school district cares more about receiving meaningless accolades for a faulty diversity policy than taking care of their own.
Oh, the dirty little secrets that are slowly being exposed--------------------
Quit the spin WCPSS. There
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:47 — Big_PictureQuit the spin WCPSS. There is no chance you will change assignments for the coming year. You do have an opportunity to reverse some of the MYR decisions which will bring an immediate cost savings to the district. Stop trying to justify something you won't change. Show that you can make a difference by switching some schools back to traditional. (Leesville Midd, Leesville Elem, Salem Midd for a start)
WE DEMAND ALL MYR
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:57 — g88ky07schools be reversed NOW!
ALL REVERSED, not a few, ALL OF THEM!
Or Rosa, you'll be in the minority come this fall!
Or do we call that diversity too?
The funny thing is a board
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 14:56 — vsheehanThe funny thing is a board so in love with diversity at any cost is not that diverse it's self.
Darn media
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:41 — Dadof3Mr. Hui's on it if its angering the ed junta water carriers.
"Look! Look! We've shuffled all the deck chairs and tables to the HIGH end of the Titanic! What's it take to get this covered?" In related news, Nero played a flawless rendition of a Roman classic on his fiddle today.
And let me just add....
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:39 — SideburnsMoving just one family under the guise of their "diversity policy" is one too many.
Um, who's running the show?
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:30 — SideburnsThat seems right in line with what Wake Ed Partnership is touting. Who is really in charge around here?
http://www.wakeedpartnership.org/In%20Context%2002.06.09.html
I know many students at our current elementary that are affected by this reassignment plan and will not be able to take advantage of the expanded grandfathering. Diversity at all costs, people.
families being reassigned, not kids
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:12 — slklingeWhat about all the families with rising kindergarteners who have other children grandfathering in different elementary schools? I have two children in two different elementary schools (and calendars) and let me tell you, its a real pain! What about all the different neighborhoods where the kids attend many different elementary schools (in my small street, which has 6 houses, there are 5 elem school aged kids, and they now attend 4 different elementary schools). There is no cohesiveness at all in neighborhoods, everyone's on a different track even if they are in the same school. They'll never be in classes with any kids in the neighborhood unless they move tracks. WCPSS has lost it's way, and the school's are losing community support.
No sense of community is right!!
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 12:04 — me_mcadamsI hear you on that one, same situation on my street. Everyone is going in different directions, different elementary schools. All the public school options makes my head spin. It shouldn't be this difficult. I just want my kids to go to school with other kids in the neighborhood, and to have the SAME opportunities as those in magnet schools!! I mean, what are my tax dollars paying for, anyway? My children are not yet in school, but the reassignment plan will definitely impact them and us. I absolutely HATE what's happening here in Wake County!
Our street
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 02:07 — SDR256Of the 14 houses on our block, with seven of them with Public School aged children I count five different schools, MYR and traditional. Probably three or four different 'tracks' or channels (elem > MS > HS) represented here. I can't keep track of who was supposed to go where, when, and now goes somewhere else but may go back here later...yadda yadda. Used to be we all had the same program.
Net is that as parents we all used to meet at the bus stop to connect with eac other. Not now. Now we argue about whether MYR or Traditional is 'better'.
SDR256, Sounds familiar,
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 10:02 — shearertwSDR256,
Sounds familiar, are we neighbors?
Nope.
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 21:35 — SDR256I think its just a common story. We're not neighbors.
was joking
Mon, 02/23/2009 - 12:47 — shearertwwas joking
Let me guess. Those who
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 07:35 — Big_PictureLet me guess. Those who think MYR is better enjoy trips to Disney off season and have not had their kids forced onto different schedules yet?
Big_Hypocrite
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 10:58 — supportwcpssis a much better name for you. You sit there and get so offended when people accuse you of just needing your summer vacation and then you turn around and talk about off season vacation. Typical.
I have kids on different schedules and my kids learn better in a YR environment. So don't begin to label people.
Another guess. Your kids
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:00 — Big_PictureAnother guess. Your kids are better off in a YR environment because *horror* Mom doesn't have to spend time parenting her own kids in large chunks of time. *How could I ever spend 11 weeks straight with my own kids*? *What a horrible experience that would be*. Some of you rely on teachers to raise and entertain your kids for you. Not me.
Please don't assume that
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:39 — CaryMomof4Please don't assume that all parents who prefer YR don't care about spending time with their kids or can afford to take Disney World vacations even in the off-season. That schedule would not only allow me to spend more time with my kids (if we could win that lottery), but suits my child's learning style better, just like the traditional calendar allows others to spend more time with their kids and suits their children's learning style better. There are lots of reasons that YR works best for a many families. It's just too bad the BOE won't give those spots to all the families who want/need them, but instead tries to force them on those who want/need a traditional calendar.
People prefer YR for a
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 13:23 — Big_PicturePeople prefer YR for a variety of reasons. Lots of people. VYR program was very successful and in demand.
Adding the Mandatory is what makes it a crime. Taking away choice is the WCPSS way.
I agree. But I would
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 13:49 — NWRaleighMomI agree.
But I would like to see VYR implemented in such a way that it does not cost extra to operate compare to traditional schools...
I understand how it might be convenient to some families but academics should come first. I wish district first funds foreign languages, orchestras, AG services, etc. Most of the country does not have YR (M or V) but students receive much better education.
It's Not Just A Convenience For Some Families
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 14:01 — JanisTangoYear round does have an academic impact for some children. Some do learn better in that environment and retain more. I do agree for some folks it is a conveninece, but you can't say that across the board. A lot of the examples you gave would be optional and not used by all children, yet I don't think it's appropriate to say money shouldn't be spent in those areas. Maybe we can decrease the busing costs and more money would be allocated to things like that. I also believe the way Wake County has forced mandatory year round there is a lot of waste because of under utilized schools. We have to hope and pray that Wake Cares wins their lawsuit and they stop wasting money.
There has got to be a balance somewhere and I personally believe the school board has tunnel vision when it comes to anything other than diversity.
Year round does have an
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 15:48 — NWRaleighMomYear round does have an academic impact for some children.
There are studies that it is true for F&R population. But for this particular group inconvenience outweighs positive impact. There is a reason YR programs are not popular even in much more parent- friendly districts.
Some people do it for convenience, even more - to get their children into a better school regardless whether they like YR schedule or not.
Prove it
Mon, 02/23/2009 - 22:23 — supportwcpssHow can you prove that this inconvenience outweighs the impact?
Well a couple of questions, SupportWCPSS
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 08:24 — Voice_of_Reason_Would you support YR at all Title I schools only? It would do two things, first it could reduce the % of F&R's by expanding the base population and second the F&R's would possibly benefit by the year round schedule since they seem to be the group it most helps. If you don't think convienience is an issue, then why not? Evidence says it doesn't help most children that are not F&R, so why spend the money there?
Maybe since YR is considered "elitist", they could accept applications like they do magnet schools. I wonder how many people would apply.
BTW- The burden of proof rests in those that spend the money to fund a program.
Response
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 10:50 — supportwcpssThat would be an interesting direction to take. Add help during the track outs and you might be onto something. I didn't say convenience was not an issue, I just was refuting your comment that it was the only issue. I beg to differ regarding that it doesn't help most children. Given it is a wash it probably does help some. In terms of individual performance, which this group harps on, I believe my children are benefitting tremendously from a YR calendar.
I disagree with the burden of proof. Then you put them in a deer in headlights situation for every single thing they introduce into the system. I would argue that the traditional calendar is a 'program'. Just because it's been the the longest running schedule doesn't mean it's the best for academics. The performance is bad no matter what schedule you are on.
And while I know I am in the minority I still think the YR conversions were more for capacity (lob the bombs now) then anything else. We still have capacity issues. We still have 18% of our kids in trailers. Now that growth has slowed I suggest we spend all our time and money catching up. I also support converting some of the schools back (shock), but not based on which schools yells the most (Leesville) but what makes sense geographically.
OK, lets build on that
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 11:53 — Voice_of_Reason_Glad you saw the value of using the trackout time for things like remedial programs ( I left that out on purpose).
I too think the original purpose of MYR was for capacity, and it might of been cost effective. My main beef is MANDITORY. There are several clusters of Elementary Schools that could have one designated as VOLUNTARY year round and achieve the same goal. An example would be in Wakefield. They have three ES's w/in a 1.5 mile area, why not make one voluntary for those parents who like you feel their child would benefit or it meets their families needs. Doing this would not effect property values or cause severe inconvienience like the Manditory YR situation that was forced down our throats.
I still don't agree with you on burden of proof responsibility. Anyone who has ever run a large program should look at results and if the results are worse than when you started, either make major changes and re-evaluate or ditch it completely as a failed experiment and learn from it. This though is a big problem with governement bureacracies at every level. Also, if it is a wash you can't infer that some do better. You also need to remember a lot of the success of year round education was not based on a multi track type of schedule which incurs other problems especially with staff.
Can't have both
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 20:24 — supportwcpssIn a theoretical world you can't control capacity with voluntary year round because you will never know how many kids will opt for this option. The mandatory was necessary to ensure the right numbers to deal with the capacity.
I do agree with you that the process for MYR could have been better. It seemed much to random (and I don't think it was a conspiracy).
I disagree with the burden
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 12:03 — NWRaleighMomI disagree with the burden of proof. Then you put them in a deer in headlights situation for every single thing they introduce into the system.
This particular 'thing' they introduced into the system (forced is the better word) is not working for the most of the country. I would like to see the justification why it should work in this district. I don't think this is unreasonable.
Right back at you. Prove
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 08:23 — Big_PictureRight back at you. Prove it. Convince your employer to study the impact that any of their warped policies (busing for diversity, MYR) have on individual achievement. They won't do it because they already know the facts will not support their wasteful social engineering.
Whatever would they do without meaningless national awards and accolades for their *smoke and mirrors mess*?
If YR has a positive impact on F&R students
Mon, 02/23/2009 - 22:49 — Falcwhy is WCPSS threatening to discontinue all YR if it does not win in the WakeCares lawsuit? What about the impact on F&R students that would voluntarily attend YR?
Yep
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:51 — JanisTangoYep, you can opt of of year round (at least until the court ruling...GO WAKE CARES), but you cannot 'opt' out of traditional. Seems unfair doesn't it? Mandatory anything is ridiculous. I feel like we are in Mandatory Traditional, because I have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into YR. They shouldn't force anyone to a calendar that doesn't work for them. What they do is assign the MYRs to a traditional option that doesn't work either (distance, etc) under the guise that they are offering choice. I know of at least 15 families that want year round that can't get in. I know other families that are in MYR not because they wanted it, but because they weren't given a 'reasonable' choice for traditional.
Who said I needed my summer
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 11:55 — Big_PictureWho said I needed my summer vacation? Not me. You really are a rude stranger with schitzo issues that need to be addressed.
When someone thinks it is acceptable to force (yes Mandatory) others to deal with the year-round calendar just because they can get off peak vacation prices and smaller crowds that is completely selfish. Easy to do when their students are all young enough. *All about me and who cares about others.* Nice. Voluntary year-round was great. Mandatory is not.
There are lots of families
Fri, 02/20/2009 - 08:41 — CaryCurmudgeonThere are lots of families who enjoy YR schools, for a variety of good reasons. It's when you put the 'M' in front of it and force families into that schedule that problems begin.
Horace Tart may be suffering from
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:01 — g88ky07Delusional Reality Syndrome!
The "real numbers" are 24,654 Horace and if you need us to write it in large marker on your forehead just let us know!
Kids that have to provide their own transportation do nothing to lower your number, and 1,000's will! Parents of kid's not having started school yet may have bought a home where they did to attend the school that WAS assigned to their node, so moving them now and saying they don't count is a farce! Kids not here yet, but arriving in the next 3 years, may figure out after they move how the bait & switch game is played daily with you people, so to write those #'s off is another farce!
Horace they have medicine for what you are suffering from, it's called being VOTED OUT OF OFFICE IN OCTOBER!
Granny Lou Ward and Lindy Clueless Brown might want to call their doctors too!
Um, yeah! Bait and switch is right!!!
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 12:09 — me_mcadamsI just moved to Wake County in September, thinking my kids would go to Wakefield high (which is about 5 miles from my house). Now they will have to go to Heritage, which is more than twice that distance, and over a 30 minute drive away!! I am extremely resentful. I guess this is what several hundred thousand buys you in Wake County. Unbelievable!!! You can bet I never would have moved to Wake County if I knew this was going to happen!!!
This is what they do!
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 14:16 — g88ky07Sorry you're just finding out about all of this, but I fell victim, as MANY have, to the same BS. THIS is what Chuck, Del and his puppets do to its families and children. I too would have NEVER moved here had I known what I know now. N E V E R!
This fall you can help make change a reality for all of us dealing with and fed up with this garbage. Go to www.wakesca.org and get on board. You need to get in on the March 5th meeting!
4 boe seats are up for re-election in early October and WHEN we sweep those elections with people that CARE ABOUT, LISTEN TO and PUT OUR FAMILIES FIRST AGAIN, WE WILL GET CHANGE!
Our children deserve NOTHING less!
I'll be there...!
Mon, 02/23/2009 - 14:03 — me_mcadamsCount me in. Go WSCA!!!
welcome me mc
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 13:34 — shearertwWelcome to Wake Co. I'm sorry you were duped as I was 2 years ago. Your frustrated post sounds much like mine did around 18 months ago when I found this blog.
Hang in there. I have real hope (not the Obama kind) that we can make a difference this Oct. If not, we both should seriously consider moving or finding the $ for private schools.
Hey Horace, Betty Lou,
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 10:55 — AngelaWHey Horace, Betty Lou, Lindy, What about the REAL numbers at Leesville, surely the BoE isn't talking about THOSE, are they? wasting tax payers dollars based on false pretenses of "explosive" growth which can NO longer be spun any way you look at it, but ole Rosa, well SHE won't revisit looking at the 22 MYR's now will she? cry me a river that the "press" ain't on your side, BS, where's the press when the REAL numbers at MYR schools need to come out?
hatchet jobs, editorials in support, c'mon folks, you've got that going on, what?? can't always have it YOUR way...try Burger King for that, not the press!