Wake County school board member Debra Goldman is taking heat for not seconding the motion today to recommend to the full board the changes in the student assignment policy.
In a press release today, Dallas Woodhouse, state director of Americans for Prosperity, said he's beginning to have doubts about Goldman. He's accusing her of not following up on her campaign promises.
If Goldman had seconded and then voted for the motion, the full board might have been able to vote on the changes as soon as next week. The proposed changes to Policy 6200 would eliminate all references to diversity while making neighborhood schools a priority.
"We have seen this nightmare before, where new school board members do not vote to do what they said they were going to do in their campaigns," Woodhouse says in the press release.
Woodhouse also speculates that Goldman is the reason that Superintendent Del Burns wasn't removed from his position on Tuesday night.
Woodhouse is encouraging people in Goldman's district to contact her to voice their concerns.
Goldman said at today's policy committee meeting that she disagrees with the current policy. But she said she won't support the proposed policy revision rigiht now because there needs to be more discussion first.
Comments
I believe it's premature to
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 22:22 — ApexterI believe it's premature to damn Goldman. I think this is an important issue that deserves a lot of consideration.
I think a lot of the contention now is based upon the identification of "diversity" as the problem. While I can't speak for all, for myself and many of the people I have worked with for years in seeking change in WCPSS policies the real issue has been a lack of equity (in availability of electives or accesss to magnets, stability, AG education, etc) rather than diversity per se. The old status quo preferred to frame any opposition to existing policies as "opposition to diversity" rather than opposition to inequitable policies themselves. Diversity is not the problem; an inequitable system that heaped benefits on Raleigh/Central Wake County while heaping penalties on the outer areas was (and is) the problem.
I don't feel that removing diversity from the list of goals is necessary. I do think it would be helpful to codify some things in there that make it clear that it is a part of our overall goals, but not the be-all and end-all.
We need to be working towards equity, and stop allowing people to frame opposition to current policies as an opposition to racial diversity.
I am prepared to cut her
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 11:34 — changewcpssI am prepared to cut her some slack in regards to large scale sweeping changes. She still appears to be on board with the majority and just wants to have data on hand to justify changes.
We should judge her on her support of fellow board members' individual campaign promises. She stood by C Malone with H-6 issue. She is on board with J Tedesco. If she does not back D Prickett on Leesville Road conversions she needs to have her head examined so I expect to see her support that as well.
Everyone needs to be prepared for major shakeups as the new board fixes mistakes caused by previous board. Changes need to happen but to get to the end result there will be big changes.
what????
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 13:00 — supportwcpssWhy should she be responsible for supporting other board members promises???? This makes no sense. She should support her own promises.
I agree, but still worry
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 08:54 — raleighlauraI think the way growth and planning lets 10% of the magnet applicants in from some schools and a much higher percentage from others in the name of diversity is wholly unfair. I raised that concern to Debra and she was not willing to act on it this year. She urged patience. While I appreciate her responsiveness and deliberation on the matter, I was upset, and continue to be, as I thought getting rid of the 10% cap would be a relatively painless step as it would not change anything for anyone currently. The change I'd like to see would affect applicants on a going-forward basis. Since this "easy" fix wasn't embraced or acted upon, it makes me worry that equity is not enough of a priority.
It may or may not be a
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 09:32 — red_balloonIt may or may not be a painless step for certain people. Since Goldman wants time to analyze policy 6200, she cannot make or support quick changes to the magnet selection criteria since it has a direct impact on the SES composition at schools.
I think she wants to approach this from the bottom up rather than top to bottom. The latter would need for her to have a vision and then work toward implementing the same. At this point I think the BOE needs to step back and arrive at a vision and strategy: is the focus on education or social engineering? Once that is determined, they can move to the strategy to achieve it before letting staff or others work out the details.The current approach lacks the visionary leadership expected of a BOE.
Red, that is clear and well said
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 16:50 — festusMy take is that the four new board members were elected largely in opposition to existing policies; they were not elected FOR anything, but rather against. It will take them time to figure out what to recommend, so it makes sense they take their time getting rid of the old policy.
Sorry Festus, but You Are Wrong!
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:13 — JanisTangoEveryone has bought into this myth that this busing for diversity was creating all kind of success, myself included. When you start looking at the numbers the myth is revealed. Why do you think the previous board refused to study the results in Wake County to see if it was working? I really don't care what they are doing in Timbuktu, Maryland....I care about Wake. They want to work on educational issues once this assignment mess is fixed. You can believe it or not, but that is a fact!
I agree completely with allkidsfirst
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 20:41 — VadamsonThank you Mrs. Goldman for trying to find middle ground.
Middle ground is often
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 08:23 — woodstockMiddle ground is often referred to as the Golden Mean fallacy, meaning that it is a fallacy to assume that any two competing viewpoints are equally valid, and thus the “true answer” must lie in between the two. This isn’t automatically wrong; however, the fallacy lies in assuming that the middle ground must be correct.
“When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible for one side simply to be wrong.”
-Richard Dawkins
Goldman
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 21:20 — Duhhuh666I hope everyone that is now praising Ms. Goldman for being a thoughtful deliberate decision maker, will have the same praise if she makes a decision you disagree with.
I Agree!
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 11:43 — JanisTangoFair weather friends.
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:45 — red_balloonFair weather friends.
"doing something diferrent"
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 20:19 — Athey01What would that be? Should I trust you or do you have a specific plan?
I’m in my children’s
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 20:06 — cali22I’m in my children’s schools every week in a capacity that I won’t reveal. Let me tell you about what’s happening. A good portion of the “low income” kids are in regular and low classes. The rest of them are in honors an AP. There is no raising test scores through osmosis – they are in different level classes altogether. Certain nodes that score well and have exceptional parent support are being reassigned every so many years to lower scoring schools to raise those scores. Inside the beltline is exempt. If a school has too many “lower income” students, they get reassigned. The “lower income” kids are not succeeding or raising their scores. The higher scoring kids are raising the score of the school to a level that Wake County wants. The leveling out of “free and reduced” lunch percentages is a scam. It’s the test scores that they want leveled out so they look good nationally and get the funding they need. They are not interested in figuring out ways to serve the “lower income” students. When U. S News left Enloe out of their rankings they commented that they looked at all the student’s scores, not just those in honors and AP level classes like other publications did. See pasted section below. When you factor in everyone’s test scores you see that the “lower income” students just aren’t cutting it. Look at the scores when they are broken out!!! Isn’t it about time we did something different and better to serve those students? Not all of us are drinking the kool-aid. Be a presence in your child’s classes – see what’s going on. I’m also talking to you NAACP. I’ve yet to see you in the classroom. Word for word from T. Keung Hui’s article in N&O, Dec. 10, 2009 Unlike Newsweek, U.S. News assessed whether schools did better than expected on state math and reading exams. U.S. News also checks whether the low-income and minority students at a school are doing better than the state average. Like Newsweek, U.S. News incorporates data from Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate exams. The inclusion of the performance of low-income and minority students is why project analysts have said a school like Enloe High in Raleigh makes the Newsweek list but not the U.S. News list.
It’s the test scores that
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:53 — red_balloonIt’s the test scores that they want leveled out so they look good
nationally and get the funding they need.
Unfortunately, nobody buys that. We are told it's all about the F&Rs/ low SES students/ diversity. The few who see it for what it is thought the new BOE will end the charade but given the recent antics WCPSS isn't in any danger of improving education for all kids.
So what is your point here !
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:13 — Solon77Do you think neighborhood schools is the answer ? I grew up in a town with neighborhood schools and kids were placed in classes based on their capabilities for the particular subject. Diversity was - Irish, Polish, French ... by all accounts pretty sterile. When I went to college it was a very eye opening experience and I realized what a small little world I was coming from. In my professional career, I have held a number of "global" positions and I continue to learn through exposure to diverse groups. My kids go to one of those despised magnet schools and what I can say is maybe they do not share all of the same academic classes, however there is a lot of interaction in sports, arts, music, dance and other activities and clubs. They work together, develop friendships and social skills - irrespective of background. On the other hand - neighbors send their kids to private or charter schools. They will cite various politically correct reasons - but after a couple of glasses of wine - the real reason is "they do not want their kids hanging out or being exposed to the wrong sorts of people". Do not under estimate peer pressure.
I also know a lot of teachers. Not enough can be said of their dedication and hard work. It is clear that they are able to effectively help lower performing kids when there are only a couple in a classroom. More than this and their effectiveness as a teacher is significantly diminished. So while one group views a strategy of spreading around the lower performing students as "hiding" the problem. I would submit by spreading around the lower performing students allows for better identification of needs and one on one assistance.
I would like to understand how creating low performing warehouses will be a successful solution ? Do you believe that teachers can be more effective with a class that is 50% low performing ? Do you think throwing a $2k per year bonus at them is get them to sign up and take on the challenge ? But not to worry - Burns will be out soon and JT will have unveiled the master plan by this time next year.
Lucky you
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 08:48 — MomknowsbestI wish my kids get to enjoy magnet schools like yours.
solon77 said
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:50 — choice4all"My kids go to one of those despised magnet schools and what I can say is maybe they do not share all of the same academic classes, however there is a lot of interaction in sports, arts, music, dance and other activities and clubs. "
And here is the problem. The educational experiences you enjoy are NOT available, AT ALL, in a non-magnet school.
Either is the support. So
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 00:00 — choice4allEither is the support. So the way I see it is they are failing the children they claim to help by putting them on long bus rides to a school that does not have the resources to provide the goal they are trying to achieve.
Diversity is not a number
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:46 — Apexter"I grew up in a town with neighborhood schools and kids were placed in
classes based on their capabilities for the particular subject.
Diversity was - Irish, Polish, French ... by all accounts pretty
sterile. When I went to college it was a very eye opening experience
and I realized what a small little world I was coming from. In my
professional career, I have held a number of "global" positions and I
continue to learn through exposure to diverse groups. My kids go to
one of those despised magnet schools and what I can say is maybe they
do not share all of the same academic classes, however there is a lot
of interaction in sports, arts, music, dance and other activities and
clubs. "
I came up through a rural school system in NC. My classmates were primarily white, maybe 20% black, and a handful of Indians. As far as I know, the first Hispanic I met was a Mexican exchange student my senior year. We also had an Iranian refugee join us that year. We did not have any Asian kids. I first experienced true multi-culturality when I went to college.
One of the big myths that is being propagated is that suburban schools are not diverse. My bet is that the least diverse school in the system has a far more diverse student body than most of the schools we adults attended. My kids in non-magnet schools have had white, black, Asian, and Latino classmates (and friends and neighbors.) They've had classmates from Russia, Korea, and Kenya that I've known about; there are likely other nations added by this point, but my kids get less communicative as they get older. Race and nationality is not a big deal. Neither is family income.
I think it's ridiculous when I hear people saying "School X is more diverse than School Y" when what they actually mean is "School X has a higher percentage of low income students." "Diverse" is a word that has a recognized meaning. It's perverse to try to twist it into a quantification of low income students.
"One of the big myths that
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 08:51 — user12345"One of the big myths that is being propagated is that suburban schools are not diverse.”
I think there is a lot of confusion on diversity ... many people have pride their community's diversity - race, age, disability, etc. ..... but what is being discussed here is income and we need to make sure we keep that clear so we don't become distracted ... so , I congratulate all those who have friends who are different races, ages, sexual orientation, etc. ... but let's not get distracted from the core subject of income diversity ... second, eventually, we need confront that for some poor=black ... I think you can hear that sentiment when people say that a bunch of F&R kids cam to their school, F&R kids in their kid's class are disruptive, or F&R parents can not participate in some school event ... it is difficult to visually distinguish a kid's family income visually and I am concerned that they are substituting race as a marker.
Remember the Status Quo is to warehouse all the poor kids somewhere where they will not be seen … that is what most school systems do … often, the argument is that concentrating all the poor kids in a school will allow special service to be delivered efficiently to them. What this strategy assumes is that poor kids are dumb and need remedial help, which could be the case. However, some of those special services could be AG classes. However, by concentrating all the poor kids in a school, the selection of classes and levels is usually concentrated at below grade level and any smart poor kids are sacrificed.
OK, then what would be a good solution
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 09:47 — Voice_of_Reason_The current system that's in place now has not worked for the kids that you wish to help. And I don't think you can make a good case that the more affluent children benefit from it either. BL-Nobody benefits.
What is your solution, what magic solution do you have to fix human nature? I do know we should provide an opportunity to succeed to everyone, but I also know we cannot ensure everyone will excel.
I think a good first step would be to give first priority in magnet programs to those low income kids you talk about that excel.
"The current system that's
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 09:49 — user12345"The current system that's in place now has not worked for the kids that you wish to help"
Neither has concentrating them in majority poor schools like other systems do ... so, what to do .. you mentioned that one of your main complaints about these kids coming to your school is that they where dumped on you without any support ... I think that is the root problem ... personally, if the low performing kids in the academic classes have the extra resources like a TA and CA to compensate for their lack of parental involvement no matter what school they attend, I think that will address the problem ... moving them from ITB to Wakefield and losing the TAs and CAs on the way is not right to the students, school or teachers.
What else would be needed,
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 10:45 — red_balloonWhat else would be needed, apart from a TA and CA, to keep ITB kids in ITB schools but still ensure they have adequate opportunities to succeed?
My first thought is let us
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 11:33 — user12345My first thought is let us put aside where a child lives... ITB or OTB ... I think that will make it easier ... next decide on goals ... "every child reach his full potential", "employable education e.g. VOTEC", "increase graduation rate", etc.
So, given some agreed to goals ... what next... poor kids no matter on which side of the highway they live need extra help because of environmental and parental deficiencies … If we accept that some parents are not going to step up to the plate and accept that the school system is still going to shoot for success inspite of the parents than extra resources like TAs and CA’s can make a difference … next, there is a group of smart poor kids in each school out there that need a challenge … we can either come to them or have them come to us … what we can not do is nothing … I don’t know if it is cost effective to offer advanced, challenging classes distributed across all schools or not … maybe the only affordable model is application schools that they unfortunately need to travel to …
As an example, my wife spend all last night trying to communicate to the failing parents of the F&Rs she teaches … she spend time trying to locate a working phone number, a parent who spoke English, a current mailing address to send a letter, etc. Meanwhile, some teacher over at Green Hope spend time preparing her lessons, enhancing her presentation and working on her certification. It is small things like this that: 1) make teachers avoid high F&R schools and 2) “steal” time from teaching these kids … note, if there were TAs and CAs still available, they would be managing the communications not the teacher … I think that is one of the failings of diversity is that the kids don't come with their support system of TAs and CAs but they get lost in the move which benefits lower the cost per student which taxpayers demand ...
User is that you?
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 13:37 — Voice_of_Reason_I didn't disagree with almost everything you said and am glad you finally acknowledged my beef is valid about WES and not just a selfish "rich guy" talking. If you would quit your petty games and disagreements just because you are paranoid about what the current school will do, I think you will get a lot more sympathetic ears if you advocate for more VoTech and things like targeted TA and CAs.
I think you could do well to listen to John Tedesco's vision of community schools. He has a lot of insights that you and he share.
"I think you could do
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 14:34 — user12345"I think you could do well to listen to John Tedesco's vision of community schools. He has a lot of insights that you and he share. "
VOR ... my distrust is of government (funny that as a conservative you are so trusting of government in this case ??)... I fully expecting that John will develop a great plan everyone will love but he will run out of steam, political capital and funding before it is fully complete ... so, all the poor kids go home with the plan that they get the service needed at their home school and low and behold we run out of money after sending them home and can not fund all the promised and needed actions required to make it work ... sound familar for a government project ... lack of follow through ... maybe we fund all the needed changes at the high F&R schools first so that the F&Rs demand to stay home because their schools are better than where they are being bussed to.
User, I guess you waited for my response since you spellchecked
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 15:31 — Voice_of_Reason_after 24 hours went past
I am not a Libertarian like you (albeit a strange flavor), I do believe in government, chaos is not a good thing. I just don't believe in a strong Federal government except in the area of national defense. I am also a believer in people. Not everyone gives up in the face of adversity. A person with convictions can achieve great things.
I'm also not a great admirer of the established press. I do like Mr Hui though, he's better than the rest.
If you would quit your petty
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 13:41 — jenmanIf you would quit your petty games and disagreements just because you
are paranoid about what the current school will do, I think you will
get a lot more sympathetic ears if you advocate for more VoTech and
things like targeted TA and CAs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ITA.
That makes sense i.e, let us
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 12:10 — red_balloonThat makes sense i.e, let us look at the goals and go from there. It sounds like high F&R schools need certain types of extra resources while low F&R schools needs resources of a different type (with some degree of commonality). I can't say for certain but maybe the zone model proposed by Tedesco could be examined for viability. But then again, it would be a great idea for the BOE to pause and look at the vision, strategy, and goals for WCPSS before going into the implementation details or attacking bits and pieces of the problem.
excellent comments--thanks Apexter!
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:51 — petehsexcellent comments--thanks Apexter!
If the magnets were stripped
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:44 — red_balloonIf the magnets were stripped of their enhanced offerings, would you still bus your kids to the "despised magnet schools"?
I am not at a magnet school
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 11:48 — changewcpssI am not at a magnet school but I anxiously await the response to this question. Magnet parents do not go through the extra effort for the diversity. They go for the enhanced offerings.
"Do you think neighborhood
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 23:15 — CaryCurmudgeon"Do you think neighborhood schools is the answer ?"
Yes, the voters decided that last year. Move on.
"Do you think neighborhood
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 08:58 — user12345"Do you think neighborhood schools is the answer ?"
Yes, the voters decided that last year. Move on.
============================
I thought the direction was "community" not "neighborhood"?
hehe
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 10:26 — supportwcpssI'm just amazed at this type of response from one of the leaders of an supposedly open and inviting organization.
If you don't agree with Joe shut up and move on. Now I understand your issue Sideburns.
agreed!
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 14:27 — jeannie84agreed!
...
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 11:22 — Sideburns*sigh*
I must be in a different
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 20:36 — allkidsfirstI must be in a different school. We are ONE school. The smartest kid in one of the academic electives is from the neighborhood. There are lots of smart, hardworking kids living near the school. They have a shot because they are not overwhelmed with a school full of high needs kids, and they have a PTA with volunteers and a decent budget.
How are your privy to a student's F&R status? Do you know them just by looking?
Nice try, but the numbers
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 21:18 — loriacNice try, but the numbers don't back you up.
Why do we care what these
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 19:13 — user12345Why do we care what these people think? You heard Ron, you have heard AFP, JL and Civita?? ... just because a few people form different groups with different names, is it news worthy ... I don't want another rubber stamp like John and Chris ...
I heard your mouthpiece Ron
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 20:42 — g88ky07on WPTF this afternoon and the only thing you guys think, or seem to believe, is that the end is here and Resegregation is upon us! What a joke!
"Wordsmithing" I believe some would call it.
Is the allegation from AFP
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 18:55 — shank56Is the allegation from AFP what some define as "partisan politics" at the board table?
OR
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 22:18 — Solon77Bought and paid for . i wonder if they will ask for their $ back.
I'll be contacting Goldman,
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 18:49 — allkidsfirstI'll be contacting Goldman, to indicate my support.
She also promised:
To listen to parents
To be fiscally responsible
I can't find the mailer, but I remember one of her flyers saying she valued diversity. It also said something about reducing forced "excessive" bussing. Some might think that's five miles, some ten. And it definitely said "forced." Eliminating bussing by choice wasn't on the flyer.
Ending ALL diversity was not something she promised. You can increase stability and improve proximity without completely ending diversity in schools. "Neighborhood" and "community" schools are extremely vague terms, and mean different things to different people.
.
Wed, 02/24/2010 - 20:42 — g88ky07.