Letters to the editor: More reaction to Pat McCrory's college comments

And the letters keep coming on Gov. Pat McCrory's statements assailing the value of a liberal arts education. Here's a slightly edited batch:

Maybe it's just me but I found the following quote "not based on how many butts in the seats, but how many of those butts can get jobs" rather pedestrian. These are the most eloquent words our new governor can use to express himself? I wonder if a philosophy student could help him with his choice of words.

Alison Hall
Cary
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I have to agree somewhat with Pat McCrory. Are we spending taxpayer dollars on just creating wasteful degrees? Several fine educators expressed an opinion that all courses in college have value to society. While many courses of study do present the intsructor with a job, do they give the student the necessary skills to enjoy a living in "that" profession after graduation?

Why not ask the public-supported universities to ask students to report back in 6 months, after graduation, about their progress finding a job in their chosen profession or lack there of? This would give the colleges a basis to decide whether that degree program has value.

Another is to ask businesses what they want in a graduate. After all we can't have parents and students trying to pay off massive debt or scholarships wasted on kids not being able to find jobs. This is a waste of taxpayer support.

To put this in perspective, we need to understand that the nation graduates 45,000 new students with a law degree each year. Ask yourself, are there that many law firms hiring new lawyers every year? What about the poor builder? He doesn't need a lawyer to construct your new home. A liberal arts major won't be able to wire your new house just out of college. Likewise a Life Sciences major cannot help out in a operating room.

The students who graduate high school need advisers who will be honest with them. They need professions that will support them for a lifetime, not degrees that cause them to live in Mom and Dad's basement for several years before they learn new skills to earn a living.

If people who regard themselves as those of higher learning get their feelings hurt, then that is a small price to pay. We need to think of the hundreds of students they are leading down a path that shows no future gains.

Jim Wiegand
Fuquay-Varina

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Gov. Pat McCrory's remarks about the future of higher education and the General Assembly's proposed actions for public education remind me of the actions of Oliver Cromwell and the Roundheads when they ruled England, except, that if McCrory has his way, there will not be anyone left here in North Carolina who will have any knowledge of just who were Oliver Cromwell and the Roundheads.

Robert Hulbert
Snow Hill
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We're in real trouble when Barry Saunders has a better handle on what education is all about than our governor.

Gil Burroughs
Edenton

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The new governor is confusing his appreciation of art for his muse and benefactor. He should enroll in a gender studies class, visit the Cone sisters collection of Matisse and other modern masters at the Nasher, and then ask himself the value of the two arts.

Cathy Chandler
Durham
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It is instructive to compare McCrory's plan, as described in Under the Dome and elsewhere, for funding public higher education in our state with the advice of another distinguished political leader: "There is nothing which can better deserve your patronage, than the promotion of Science and Literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of publick happiness." That was George Washington in his second inaugural address. North Carolina's university system is the gold standard in pubic higher education in this country. Politicians should never be allowed to debase it.

W. Robert Connor
Hillsborough
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I'd like to tell Gov. Pat McCrory and Dr. Bill Bennett that a philosophy major from UNC-Chapel Hill can get a job (apropos the article in the paper on 1/30 about the university system having no business producing majors who "have no chance of getting jobs").

I was in 1973 one of about a dozen in my class who majored (for me, a double major, with religion) in philosophy. Granted that advanced degrees from Duke (in religion, with philosophy as a minor) might have helped, but I left school to enter a now 34-year-long career as a teacher of philosophy. I may make a small fraction of the salaries McCrory's administration will pull down, but it is a job. In my field.

And while I disagree with the assumption that a paycheck education is the only education the state should offer, I can safely say that even a philosopher can get a job. I may not cure cancer, but it's possible that I've taught a few students to think clearly enough to see through the fallacies in the governor's logic.

Steven W. Esthimer, Ph.D.
Chair of the Humanities and Social Sciences Department
Saint Mary's School
Raleigh

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Pat McCrory has only been in office for two weeks, and already he wants to dismantle some of the most highly regarded education programs in the nation. I was furious when I read the interview you quoted Jan. 29, where Gov. McCrory attacked UNC and accused liberal arts courses of being a waste of money. If someone wants to take a course such as "gender studies," he said, "go to a private school and take it."

I was an English major, one of the so-called "educational elite" majors to which McCrory is referring. I became a teacher and helped underprivileged kids in North Carolina. Our "subsidized" Gender Studies program McCrory wants to nix has staffed students in North Carolina's rape crisis centers, research centers, NGOs, businesses and law offices.

Liberal arts courses don't train students, they educate them, preparing them to think critically, adapt to new situations, communicate effectively, and innovate - - all skills employees need in this ever-changing economy. McCrory's own liberal arts degree apparently enabled him to become governor!

We need to stand up this hypocrisy now and protect the valuable institution we have at UNC, before we become an assembly line rather than a school.

Jennnifer Job
Durham
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It is distressing that our new Governor, a man presumably of intelligence and practical wisdom, has revealed himself as a "Know Nothing" party spokesman with respect to higher education. By attacking non-job oriented disciplines in the arts and sciences, I believe that his approach to job creation in our State is both wrong-headed and shortsighted.

First of all, it is a great mistake to attack our public colleges and universities by introducing a measure that determines funding by the number of jobs in which graduates are placed. Perhaps our community colleges should be judged by that measure, but the rest of our higher education system is much too complex to be judged in that way. Think of the great professional schools and research organizations that both lead to careers for graduates but also generate cutting edge knowledge that is the seed kernel of economic growth. All of our institutions in the UNC System have elements of professional preparation; e.g., business, nursing and law. Moreover, most professional schools require their students to have undergraduate preparation in the liberal arts and sciences.

Clearly, the Governor is attacking those disciplines in the liberal arts that do not link students directly to jobs. Think of philosophy, history, art, political science, economics, and religion as examples of the liberal arts. These disciplines exist to expand knowledge of our world and culture, develop critical thinking skills and prepare students for responsible citizenship. Would the Governor eliminate them? Or is he attacking some of the newer disciplines or fields of study like Afro-American Studies and Women's Studies? It can be argued that they contribute to our fund of knowledge, just as well as the older disciplines.

Shouldn't that be a matter for the faculties to decide, rather than the politicians of our State? I find it interesting that the governor, a graduate of Catawba College, majored in political science, one of the main social sciences in a liberal arts college. That is not a field of study that leads directly to a job, unless, of course, one has a political career in mind as an undergraduate. He says he believes in the liberal arts. He should be pressed to explain himself more clearly and defend his position.

I would suggest that the Governor take a more thoughtful approach and lean more heavily on the Board of Governors of the University of North Carolina for advice on how our higher education institutions should be funded, rather than shooting from the hip as he is reported to have done. He could also take a leaf from the playbook of former Republican governor of New Jersey, Tom Kean, who really understood education and the liberal arts.

Samuel H. Magill
UNC '50
Chapel Hill

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By all means, let's start in kindergarten and teach our youth only things for which someone will pay them. Obviously no one except doctors and nurses need know how their bodies work. Forget about all that drama and art. Those jobs are few and far between. Why waste our time and money teaching a potential plumber anything which does not pertain to plumbing? Why would he need to know geography or history? He doesn't need to know where Iran is or have any understanding of the world situation in order to fix the toilet. Heaven forbid he should be given enough general knowledge to know not to vote for Governor McCrory.

Abbey Lynn Sutton
Windsor
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In the current dispute over the future of liberal arts education between the governor and his detractors, there is a middle ground that few seem to recognize. A strong liberal arts foundation is essential for any successful modern life -- even that of an engineer. Unfortunately, however, many institutions of higher education are just not providing that today. The traditional disciplines are disrespected and curricula are disjointed and uneven. Too many faculty are uncomfortable outside of the narrow slice of a single field in which they conduct their research. A few believe their jobs are to indoctrinate rather than educate and trash American civilization rather than truly understand it. P.S. I'm a professor of Political Science at NC State.

Andrew Taylor
Cary

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Who could have imagined that after less than a month in office the new Governor would make Art Pope look like the adult, reasonable one in the room? Pope's comments about making such sweeping changes concerning state taxes were appropriate. Meanwhile, the new governor decides that "lower" education is what we really need in North Carolina. You really have to work hard to make Pope sound reasonable about anything but sure enough, Gov. Pat McCrory has done just that! Maybe he should run his comments past Pope in the future. Of course, given Pope's background, that is exactly what I am afraid he will do. You have to wonder if that influence has not already started showing up!

Michael Taylor
Emerald Isle
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I was sorely disappointed to hear Pat McCrory's comments on Bill Bennett's show regarding our funding of higher education. His take on "intellectual elites" and the need for higher education to "provide jobs" is overly simplistic to the point of being laughable. Why not propose an exchange between the private sector and vocational schools, coupled with additional state funding for those schools? Instead, he took it as an opportunity to rehash tired culture war talking points that do absolutely nothing to improve our education system, or provide relief to our state budget. It was thinly veiled sexism, and a cheap shot hardly befitting the office of Governor.

McCrory ought to be embarrassed by such casual demagoguery. I sincerely hope he stands up as a leader and quits wallowing in the same tired muck with hacks like Bill Bennett.

Ben Maschal
Siler City
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Governor McCrory apparently sees no connection between a well-funded undergraduate "liberal" Arts and Science curriculum and a healthy society. Most undergraduates, who will eventually graduate with a bachelor's degree, have 80 percent of what they need to get a friggin job before their freshman year! Apparently, our governor doesn't understand this. And because he doesn't get it, he would opt to turn the University of North Carolina into an elitist enclave! If any of you "staffers" out there have the grit to do it, tell the Governor to make a public retraction, as he may not comprehend the need for an apology...

Steve Livingstone
Wake Forest

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No, Mr. McCrory, I am not your customer! As a North Carolina taxpayer, I am one of your employers. And as your employer, if you were to be reviewed and rated right now based on the job you have done so far, I would give you a very low mark and put you on notice of probation. Your most recent remarks on national television concerning your views on higher education are an embarrassment to our state, and they reflect a critical lack of thinking skills and understanding of education on your part. I fear for the future of North Carolina in your hands.

Theresa Moore
Raleigh

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Gov. Pat McCrory appears to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. He disparages the educational elite -- apparently, anyone who actually knows anything about education. He wants government to tell state university students what they are allowed to study.

In the Triangle, our economic prosperity is closely tied to the demonstrated success of UNC Chapel Hill and NC State. All UNC system schools are making contributions in preparing graduates for jobs and to be active and informed citizens in a dynamic world.

As an engineering professor at NC State, I am happy to point out that this state needs majors in English, political science, philosophy, and other fields that McCrory disparages. Students educated in such fields develop critical thinking skills which are a needed antidote to grandstanding. Despite popular stereotypes, graduates of such programs can find jobs.

Gov. McCrory callously and contemptuously refers to hardworking UNC system students as butts in seats. However, far from just sitting in seats, they engage in projects, work in teams, conduct research, and many other activities. Many are working to pay their way through college.

The UNC system should be supported, not disparaged and insulted, by our own Governor.

Chris Frey
Raleigh

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Governor Pat McCrory said that he wants to change funding for higher education in North Carolina so that graduates are ready for the jobs that instate businesses want filled. The governor was quoted in the newspaper that state funding to our universities should "not be based upon how many butts (sic) in seats but how many of these butts (sic) can get jobs."
Who says public discourse has been coarsening? The governor should be more aware of his responsibilities as one of the important role models for our youth and citizens.
Butts? Really, Governor?

Henrietta Jenrette
Raleigh

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According to article from Jan 30, Pat McCrory and William Bennett want to do away with providing public funding to liberal arts classes because “they are not going to help get a job.” This, despite the fact that both of them received their degrees in liberal arts: political science/education and philosophy, respectively.

With that logic, I guess high schools should stop offering foreign language courses such as French and German, because students surely aren’t going to get a job in those fields. While we’re at it, we may as well just rid our schools of those fluffy music, art, sociology, history and physical education classes too because chances are, students will not be pursuing work in those fields either. Seemingly, these types of classes do not help to produce well-rounded, informed, insightful critical thinkers, but merely suck resources away from the real job creating classes.

McCrory only wants to fund classes that produce workers such as engineers, technicians, and mechanics because, after all, look where his liberal arts education got him!

Tracy Entwisle Smith
Apex
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Alarm bells should be ringing all across North Carolina in response to Governor McCrory's statement that he doesn't want to fund any course in our educational system that does not lead directly to a job. The implication of this comment shows no sensitivity to the importance of a liberal arts education. Of course the curriculum at some level must include material essential for future employment, but that is not enough. A balanced education not only instructs people on how to make a living. It also teaches them how to make a life. Subjects like history, literature, religion, philosophy and art may not lead directly to a job, but they contribute substantially to enlarging one's knowledge of the world and perspectives on life.

It would be extremely short-sighted for money to be allocated to our educational institutions based on the number of jobs created while neglecting the accumulated wisdom of the centuries that continues to inspire, motivate, and enlighten the human spirit.

Robert Seymour
Chapel Hill

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It is hard for me to believe that North Carolina has elected a governor who does not understand that our great University is not a job training mill. If Pat McCrory has made it this far under such an illusion, it will be very challenging to disillusion him now. But try we must. I applaud the UNC faculty and students in this regard. I know there are some members of our legislature who understand this, and I hope they can prevail on fellow legislators and the governor to sustain the academic tradition North Carolina has established and has led in public education, which has been the source of tribute and respect for our state.

Nancy Elkins
Chapel Hill

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Our new governor apparently thinks the state's educational system belongs to him. "So I'm going to adjust MY curriculum to what business and commerce needs . . ." he said. And "Most people don't realize two-thirds of MY students are women.

He may claim the system as his very own but his agenda is not based on North Carolina needs, values and traditions. The attacks on education and other initiatives such as Voter ID, trading income tax for a regressive sales tax (tax on medical care, really?), cuts in Medicaid and unemployment compensation, all fit nicely into a nationwide agenda set by right-wing money gods.

One has to wonder if business and commerce really will be attracted to a state with a narrow jobs-centered university system, low ranking public schools, high levels of poverty and environmental neglect. There was a time when this was considered a progressive oasis in a more regressive South. Lets hope our new Republican-owned state government considers the downsides of blindly following the GOP agenda before it takes us down.

Sharon Campbell
Chapel Hill

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Just because we are all revulsed by the un-American and undemocratic intent to undermine our public schools and higher education does not mean we should throw out the baby with the bath water.

Governor McCrory's idea could have tremendous results once applied where it would have the most impact. Allow me to paraphrase: We do not care about how many butts produce hot air on Jones Street; we want to see how many jobs Jones Street will help produce! At the end of the first quarter, if a minimum new job quota is not reached, members of the General Assembly would see their pay cut in half. A similarly non productive number by the end of the second quarter would mean: Out with the bums! We would replace them.

Because we feel generous, we wont mind having our hard earned tax money used to let them collect $350 a week unemployment for as little time as possible.

Roland Menestres
Retired high school teacher.

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With "how many (public university student) butts can get jobs" following graduation as his basis for determining appropriate levels of state funding for public higher education, Governor McCrory apparently intends that women who do not aspire to join the work force, preferring instead to function as home-making wives and mothers, need not apply; funding space for such female "butts" in the Governor's "trade school" entetprises would be a waste of scarce resources.

Dick Robinson
Chapel Hill
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If Gov. McCrory wants to direct the state’s focus and funding for public higher education to vocational education, then the NC Community College System should receive a much higher % of total tax dollars currently being allocated for public higher education. These additional funds could be used by our community college system to raise faculty salaries and expand the technical and vocational programs offering the best job prospects.

Perhaps with less funding, the UNC System would be forced to reduce some of their liberal arts courses especially those that require little academic work or attendance. Faculty teaching loads might have to be adjusted to include more than one course per semester. Certainly their high-paid administrators can find ways to do more with less and deliver quality academic programs.

John F. Bridgers
Fuquay-Varina
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