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Where things stand, July 7

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How the Carolina Hurricanes’ salary picture stacks up as of Monday:

FORWARDS
Eric Staal, $5 million
Rod Brind’Amour, $4 million
Ray Whitney, $3.55 million
Justin Williams, $3.5 million
Matt Cullen, $2.8 million
Scott Walker, $2.5 million
Sergei Samsonov, $2.3 million
Tuomo Ruutu, $2.25 million
Patrick Eaves, $1.1 million
Brandon Sutter, $875,000
Ryan Bayda, $475,000
Wade Brookbank, $475,000

DEFENSEMEN
Joni Pitkanen, $3.5 million
Joe Corvo, $2.75 million
Frantisek Kaberle, $2.2 million
Tim Gleason, $2 million
Niclas Wallin, $1.725 million
Dennis Seidenberg, $1.2 million
Josef Melichar, $1 million
Anton Babchuk, $1 million
x-David Tanabe, $900,000

GOALTENDERS
Cam Ward, $2.5 million
Michael Leighton, $600,000

BOUGHT OUT
Jeff Hamilton, $600,000

TOTAL SALARY
$48.8 million for 23 players, with a charge of about $49.4 million against the $56.7 million cap. Carolina's budget has been set at $45 million.

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS (with 2007-08 salary)
Chad LaRose, RW ($500,000/filed for arbitration July 5).

RETIRED
Glen Wesley, D.

x-Hurricanes have initiated buyout proceedings with Tanabe and would be responsible for two-thirds of his salary this season if successful.

Comments

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LaRose arbitration options

Can anyone answer this question for me. Suppose the arbitration process awards LaRose more than the Canes are willing to pay. I understand they have 48 hrs to notify him of rejecting the arbitration decision, at which point he becomes a UFA. What next? Does any other interested team have to also meet the arbitration amount or can they negotiate a lesser salary w/ Rosey. What are the Canes' options at that point? Also is he looking for one or two years? Can I speculate he's looking for something more than Sutter and less than Eaves (basically doubling his last year's salary)?

Cheap self-imposed budget(Shawn)

Shawn,
That cheap self-imposed budget is what keeps that team here. Unless we start selling out the "Castle" every night. THink about it, most teams in the NHL operate at a loss unless they make the playoffs. That cheap budget minimizes the losses to the ownership and keeps the team in the current location. At least we don't have Tampa's new ownership where we are mortgaging our future in the first year on a team that may not even play well together.

Self-Imposed Budget

Exactly.  Must be a closet Flyers or Rangers fan used to an owner just throwing money at problems.  We are a small market team.  We cannot go out and ‘buy’ a great team.  We have to build one from within and make smart, economical pick-ups.  If we had several thousand additional season ticket holders, and Karmanos was turning a regular profit, then maybe we could bemoan a ‘self-imposed’ budget. As it stands, the team needs to slowly increase it’s season ticket base each year and make the playoffs two out of three seasons in order for Karmanos not to drown in a sea of red.  But before you feel too bad for the guy, keep in mind that the value of the franchise has about tripled since he bought it and goes up and up each year.  So, when he sells, he’ll recoup all of the losses he’s incurred and then some. 
We just have to hope that he doesn’t sell anytime soon or to Ballsillie or someone else who feels the team would look better in Hamilton, ON or Las Vegas.

Unrelated...

Anyone else notice that Tampa Bay is looking a lot more like the 06 Canes team? Stillman, Recchi, and Hutch! Interesting. Tampons have a lot to cheer about this fall.

stillman

huh? Stillman signed with Florida..

yeah...

after i sent it i realized that.

 

aren't all florida teams the same?

You guys are right about

You guys are right about Sutter. Based on what I've read, to play in Albany, he would have to be 20 by 12/31/08. He doesn't turn 20 by 2/14/09. So he misses the AHL this season by a month & a half. Forgot about that rule. I guess if his junior team is that bad of a situation, the Canes might be more likely to keep him around. But like I said before, I don't know if playing on Laviolette's 4th line will be enough ice time for him to develop. I still want Chad back.

Sutter

If the Canes decide that Sutter won't make the big team this year, doesn't he have to go back to Red Deer? I believe that a player has to turn 20 by the end of the calendar year to be eligible to play in the AHL. Sutter will not turn 20 until Valentine's Day. Then again, he could play in the AHL if he's completed four years of junior ability, which I'm not sure of. Can anyone clarify?

Sutter

He can't play in the AHL next year! He will either make the Canes roster and his entry level contract will kick in & count against the cap, or he will be sent back to juniors and play for Red Deer next year. The CHL / AHL agreement ensures that players under 20 years old with junior eligibility left have to either play in the NHL as a pro, or go back to their junior team. You do get nine games at the NHL level before the entry level contract kicks in. So, the Canes will have all of training camp, preseason, and up to 9 regular season game to decide on Sutter.

Sutter

Sutter is too young for AHL...its either Red Deer or the Canes

Letowski

Apparently I've missed something ... but ... where's Letwoski in all this? He's not listed here, he's not on the roster on the Canes home page ... NHL.COM still shows him as a Cane as of end of '08 season and there's no further mention of him.

letowski

He is a UR that the Canes neither want nor need.  they have no rights to him as of July 1st

Letowski

He is a UFA, who the Canes have already said they will not resign. So he is free to sign with any team.

Letowski

Letowski=UFA 

Letowski

Letowski became a UFA on July 1.

I know that Sutter was on a

I know that Sutter was on a bad team, but its interesting that the Canes feel he may well be ready for the NHL after the season he had in juniors. I'd feel better w/ Chad here & Sutter in Albany. Laviolette has used his 4th line VERY sparingly ever since he was hired in '04, so it will be interesting to see if that changes at all w/ his job on the line this year. That may have bearing on who they decide to go w/ between LaRose & Sutter. I doubt they'd want Sutter on the team getting 4 min. a night...

Sutter

Sutter cannot play in Albany for the entire season due to his age.  He either makes the Canes, or he goes back to his Jr. team.  Once his Jr. season ends he could come to Albany as he did this past year for a few games. 

technically...

Actually, he just has to be "offered" to his junior team first. If Red Deer were to decline the offer, he could be assigned to the AHL.

Now, if Red Deer were to be offered Sutter, they'd be silly not to take him unless some other agreement was in place.

Ruutu and Pitkanen are

Ruutu and Pitkanen are buddies. With the rumors of Pitkanen being a fairly moody player it probably wouldn't be in our best interest to trade his best friend on the team out. Plus, we need that jam in the Top 6 without Erik Cole.

I think that if Carolina gets Kaberle out the door they can still finish the year at or around the budget if they let the natural progression of the roster shake out. Just because you start the season over your budget doesn't mean you're going to actually pay out that amount of money. If we feel good about where we're at with our defensive unit in Early November then we can send Melichar, Seidenberg, or Babchuk either to another team or through waivers and not have to pay them another thin dime all year. It's the nature of a competition for a roster spot here with three players on one year contracts. I actually think that may be the intention.

As for Larose.... I really can't figure that one out. As much as it pains me to say, they may very well walk away from the arbitration reward and cut ties with the young man all together. It's terrible for us as fans because we love the guy for the most part.... but it's a business and we've got a lot better forwards under contract.

Good points

These are all very good points.

The relationship between Ruutu and Pitkanen, and what it means to the locker room is definitely something that I think would be taken into account.

And I'm with you on LaRose. I hope they find a way to keep him, but I don't have a real good (or should I say "Rosey") feeling about it. The red flag for me was when they resigned Bayda to a one-way deal. To me that felt like a business/salary move that might leave Chad on the outside looking in, as I could see the two of them essentially competing for the same roster spot. But maybe I'm just crazy.

Fingers still crossed...

-m

 

 

Better than LaRose?

Is Eaves a better forward than LaRose?  Is Bayda a better forward?  Not judged on past experience.  Was it Lavy or JR who said he expects LaRose to score 20 sooner or later, given the opportunity, I don't recall.

Of course Eaves is

Of course Eaves is better!  Last season he was injured a lot so the season was a virtual write off.  And if this doesn't convince you I don't know what will- in Eaves' rookie season he scored more goals than LaRose has in his career.

Bayda is not better than Larose, but he comes at probably half the price of what LaRose wanted, so the budget squeezed Canes chose Bayda.  Just my opinions.

Now if we had a different owner, LaRose would probably have signed a while ago...

Comparisons

There's more to playing forward than scoring goals.  Does Eaves kill penalties?  Does he provide energy?  Does he play defense?  Further, do we compare what Eaves did years ago as a rookie to what LaRose did last year?  That's not how it works these days.  Is Eaves better than LaRose?  Not yet demonstrated.

Is Sutter better than LaRose? Not yet demonstrated, for sure. 

Eaves

I think its fairly obvious that Patrick Eaves is and will be a better player than LaRose in the long run.  Eaves was known in Ottawa for his two-way ability and scoring upside potential.  LaRose brings high energy to the team, and I would prefer to see him stay 'red', but he truly is nothing more than a 4th line winger.  We have no room for him in our tight budget if he expects to make '3rd line money.' 

repeat/reject

Sometimes I inadvertantly repeat myself.

(What?) 

Sorry about that.

 

 

Good points

These are all very good points.

The relationship between Ruutu and Pitkanen, and what it means to the locker room is definitely something that I think would be taken into account.

And I'm with you on LaRose. I hope they find a way to keep him, but I don't have a real good (or should I say "Rosey") feeling about it. The red flag for me was when they resigned Bayda to a one-way deal. To me that felt like a business/salary move that might leave Chad on the outside looking in, as I could see the two of them essentially competing for the same roster spot. But maybe I'm just crazy.

Fingers still crossed...

-m

 

 

Players

It is remarkable how, many years ago, the problem was always getting enough good players. Now we're trying to get rid of players, and while Kaberle has not done well lately, the same cannot be said of LaRose.

I'm not sure how impressed fans will be with the intentions of the ownership if someone like LaRose is sacrificed to "the budget" that is $10 mill+ below the league maximum. Arbitration followed by an award so large that the Canes walk away from it would be a PR disaster.

So...

Based on these numbers (and thanks for keeping us up to date on all of this stuff Luke!), it looks like it could take more than just one trade to get the Canes down to their proposed budget. Trading Kaberle ($2.2 million) for example still leaves us over the number, and whomever we trade is likely to go for draft picks or prospects and a bag of pucks as opposed to bringing back any sort of NHL level player. Which I guess is fine, we need to stock the system.

I have 2 questions for you Luke (if you don't mind):

1) Does Brandon Sutter's contract count against the Canes cap whether he makes the team out of training camp or not? Or are you assuming that he will make it, and it's all a moot point?

2) Is the budget set in stone at $45 million? I've seen it listed as "around $45-46 million" in published reports. Sure it's only a million dollars, but that is basically a player these days.

If Sutter's contract does indeed count against the cap regardless of whether he suits it up in Raleigh or Albany at the beginning of the year, and the Canes are indeed dead set on a $45 million budget, I'm thinking things do not look good for Chad LaRose being on the roster, no matter how negotiations and/or arbitration goes.

My best, completely uneducated, wildest, speculative guess has Kaberle, Seidenberg, along with possibly Ruutu and/or LaRose still on the trading block.

Thanks again Luke, and to everyone else, for making this blog such a lively forum/discussion of late!

-m

budget stuff

1. Brandon Sutter's contract does not count against the cap (or budget) if he's in the AHL or sent back to his junior team. But the Canes have made it clear he's going to get every chance to make the team. Technically, his bonuses count against the cap as well, making his cap hit about $1.2 million, because it's technically the last year of the CBA. For Carolina budget purposes, though, he's an $875K player.

2. I've written it as $45-46 million because that's what I was told, but on here I've put it as $45 because I would guess that's where it's supposed to be. The goal would be to get as close to that as possible. $46 million would probably be OK.

Trading Kaberle and completing the Tanabe buyout would put the Canes at $46.3 million not counting LaRose. I'm guessing Rutherford could get that past Karmanos, even if his guidance was $45 million. Either way, the Canes figure to fall in the bottom third of the league at that figure.

edited 1:57 p.m. Tuesday

thanks!

Thanks as always for the info Luke!

-m 

No disrespect

No disrespect intended...

 

If the Canes were considering trading Ruutu or Seidenberg, they wouldn't have signed them to new contracts.  They would have just traded them.

The team will likely be over their goal....which is fine if we make it past round 2 of the playoffs!!  All we have to do is win now :)

I'd be shocked to see us trade Kaberle for much more than a 4th line winger and a few draft picks.   

No disrepect...

No disrespect taken, but...

I would only add that now that Ruutu and Seidenberg are signed, they could (and I emphasize "could", not will/would) be easier to trade if someone who wanted them thinks they were signed at or below their value. In such a case a team would be trading for a known salary, and would not have to worry about trading for a RFA and then having to turn around and negotiate with said RFA and risk not being able to come to terms. In a completely HYPOTHETICAL situation, the Canes could sign a player at a number that another team was happy with and then complete a trade with that team. Happens all the time in other sports - sign and trade - and unless it is somehow forbidden in the NHL's CBA (and I have no idea about that - if so, pardon my ignorance) I would think it could be possible (note: not "probable") in this case.

Granted this is all wild speculation and guesswork. But isn't that what makes it fun?

For the record I HOPE the Canes keep Ruutu AND Seidenberg, as I see both as assets to the team. I hope they find a way to sign and keep LaRose. And I hope that they are more flexible with their budget number than we have been led to believe. But, they were flexible with their salary numbers last year, hoping and expecting to make things up in the playoffs. We all know that did not happen. And they will have to build in some flexibility this year in case of injury, callups and the possibility of midseason trades. Will be interesting to see if Karmanos is willing to do that again (and to what extent) and stretch his budget by a few million out of the gate.

I sincerely hope he is. If not, salaries will have to be dumped, most likely via trade. Whether we like it or not, until this team generates more consistent revenue (which, ironically means more and deeper playoff runs), I think we can count on being in the lower third of the salary scale for the league, especially if the other owners continue to seemingly suffer from selective amnesia as to what led to the lockout in the first place. I'm no accountant but some teams seem to already be spending money that is not there in the first place. Do you hear me Tampa Bay?

-m

 

Over 4 million dollars over budget?

If Luke is correct, (typically is) then the team is 4.4 million dollars over budget, moving Kaberle won't free it all up. I'm hoping Karmanos won't force another salary dump trade and partially dismantle the team so he can meet his cheap self-imposed budget.

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