Well, here we are again, in another lockout, and there's more than enough anger to go around.
Time to vent. Who are you really mad at, or blame for this mess? Gary Bettman? The owners? Donald Fehr? The union? Players?
Tired of hearing about HRR? Sick of the rhetoric? Mad about hearing the two sides say they're willing to meet and negotiate any time, then take days off?
Whatever is on your mind, let's hear it. The floor is open.
A Raleigh native, Chip has worked at the N&O since 1979 and is the Canes beat writer. He can be reached at
Comments
I Blame them All
Tue, 09/18/2012 - 08:25 — WAStoutWhere is the sense of urgency?!?!? They should be meeting EVERY SINGLE DAY for no less than 8 hours until a deal is done.
There is no sense of
Tue, 09/18/2012 - 13:11 — ctillThere is no sense of urgency. Bottom line: neither the players nor the owners care whether it's settled tomorrow versus next week.
lockout
Tue, 09/18/2012 - 07:08 — greg_98by defintion this is a lockout, one brought on by the owners, not a strike but a lockout...the owners got what they wanted in the last lockout and it seems to have failed .....the owners made drastic changes that they full well knew would be rejected,the nhl is making money overall , but the ones making a nice profit would like to keep it that way...and the owners can count on fans being there when this is setteled, the players would love to play and said they would play and negotiate, its the owners that want to cancel the season, they need to make up front money and add value to the franchise ,,, if that sounds like greed , you may be right
Nobody is "to blame". This
Tue, 09/18/2012 - 02:41 — ctillNobody is "to blame". This is as normal as the sun rising in the east. The world hasn't been hit by an asteroid, and this will work itself out -- if not soon, then by next season.
As to how things got here, the NHLPA is negotiating from a position of weakness. Perhaps everyone sees that except the players themselves. And while everybody takes shots at the owners, let me say it's difficult to identify with a player who says he should get $5 million a season instead of $4 million.
Both Sides Greedy
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 22:01 — LainiencBoth parties have no regard for who enables them to make the money: fans. This is basically the 1% squabbling over who should get more of the revenue that is generated from the commoners. Pretty nervy, particularly in a soft economy. Both sides revealed their hand, and fans are not part of their consideration. This is a final slap in the face to fans in my view. Being a season ticketholder gives a fan the right to pay full price in advance for the benefit of being in the same seat and priority for "playoff" tickets. The dirty little secret is if one can't make it to a game, it is a major effort for an STH to even give away tickets due to folks lack of general interest. Selling tickets would be more difficult due to 1) BOGO or other deep discount offers that undersell the STH price 2) comp tickets that are plentiful if one knows one of the many folks that get them.
No wonder hockey is such a fringe sport due to mismanagement. The sport has finally made some inroads to gaining a bit more popularity via Winter Classic, and now will risk alienating their NBC carrier and that exposure. After the last lockout, NHL lost their ESPN contract and was relegated to the fishing channel. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the NBC contract.
As Spookyalf points out, the lockout evidences that the 1% are not job creators. Those that are compensated for their jobs will lose out.
The NHL knows that many fans will blindly return like lemmings and consider themselves lucky to have hockey. Personally, I wont miss the deafening jumbotron designed to feign excitement, which has made going to games a very unpleasant experience. Any funds set aside for hockey tickets this season will be used for better purposes...and will cancel NHL Network and Center Ice. Maybe I'll buy some dividend generating stock or tax free munis. If I do catch a hockey game in person, it'll be to see a pick up league of folks that love the game and play for free on their lunch hour from their 9-5's.
Both Are To Blame!!
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:36 — hockey101Both sides are to blame. The PA didn't seem in a hurry to get to the bargaining table after Bettman gave them ample time and the league should have given their offer much sooner. Looking at the numbers from both proposals, they are close but why the can't get it done is very frustrating after reading and hearing everyone say it will come to a 50/50 split.
It's time for the owner's to get someone who knows boths sides of the fence ( the owners and players) to come in and fix these issues. Bettman is not that person. Maybe someone like Gretzky or Messier could come in so we can have labor peace for a long time.
Ron Francis
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 20:12 — Biff_BeersYou make a great point. A former player who has reached upper levels of management would have credibility with both sides. Someone that has been successful in both big and small markets could come forward with a creative proposal that allows both sides to save face and solves the problem immediately. Ron Francis, this is your moment!
nice...
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 20:44 — louis12580but who would he represent? He's now a partial owner of the club. As to the suggestion of a former player coming in as a negotiator, no. If anyone is to brought in as a mediator, it needs to be a professional mediator. Messier has to be excluded as he works for Dolan. If it's anyone, let it be Gordie Howe. He'd knock sense, literally and figuartively, into both sides. Remember that training camps don't open until the 21st so there's still time this week to get a framework in place and things will begin on time.
Owners
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 11:40 — CanarseI blame the owners and Bettman. In '04-05 I believed the owners were right in setting up a cap for the good of the game. Yes, wealthy owners will over spend and it's not fair, but it was best for the game for teams to be competitive. Today I believe the owners want a few things fixed and see an opportuntiy to get more money out of the players. Greed. The players seem to be willing to move their percentage downward, but it's not enough for a bunch of guys already making money.
I don't think revenue sharing is as big an issue as others on this board. Bettman has said that he doesn't think the sides are all that far off on revenue sharing. He usually refocuses on the money issue after he says that. I think the owners will be glad to institute some revenue sharing if they can get the players to pay for it, which is what the deal the NHL is offering will do. I bet behind closed doors Bettman has told the small market teams he'll get them revenue sharing and told the big market teams he'll get them money for revenue sharing and more!
Lock out #4
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 11:23 — esteban1949In recent History there has been 4 lockouts and #4 is now here and going... I feel and felt that if the NHLPA had offered 50% HHR Publically...that would have put the NHL/Owners on guard..and they the owners/NHL would k ow the players want and desire to play..after all how many players in all the minor leagues want to make it to the NHl to be part of a freaking lockout..for many players( the younger ones if asked..the money is seconday to them personally..they want to play..In closing Hockey has come a very long and hard way..many of the players vgfrom back just prior to WW2 and after would be amased at what players get,wear and the speed and power of the game of today..they got hurt just as bad then as they do today..but many forget that the players of the Hull.Orr,Howe eras and before are just like the ones of today..They want/wanted to play a game they all loved more than life ...just as we the fans are getting screwed over again...there are "greedy people on bothsides and we'll hear the PC version of wehat is going on...but bothsides forget..we, the fans are hardly ever PC when our butts are in those seats ...and if they keep this up..there will be fewer and fewer butts in the seats...especially if the US Dollar falls much further...and you can thank the federal reserve/Washington DC for that..End the Lock out Now !!
Go Canes & Checkers !!
I blame everyone.
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 11:21 — spookyalfEveryone is to blame here. From the owners down to the players.
The owners because they approved an old CBA that when they found loopholes, they saw fit to exploit, and now they cry they can't afford to pay the players. Shame on Bettman for giving those contracts his stamp of approval. Come on, was it so hard to see that most of the contracts actually violated the CBA. Huge amounts up front and then nothing at the end, only to make salaries cap friendly. The good old boy system needs to stop.
I understand that the players don't want to take a cut, but seriously, with all endorsements they get paid for will they really see it? The only players that will really hurt out of this are the third/fourth line players. The guys European teams don't want. These are the players that will hurt out of this.
The people that really get hurt out of this, are the people that rely on hockey to help pay bills. These are the people that will really be hurt. How about this, how about Bettman, Daly, and the Fehr brothers, along with the owners and players put their greed aside and think about those people. Those people who are financially going to be hurt by a lockout. Those are the people who lose, not the owners, players, or fans. Get a new CBA signed for them!
Don't leave out Daly
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 10:02 — louis12580Or, as I now refer to him "Napalm" Bill Daly. There's blame to spread everywhere. The owners shoulder much of the blame. They signed off on the now expired agreement and then saw fit to cry foul. Their arrogance reminds me of Jerry Richardson's remark during the last NFL dispute and we are trying to get "Our game" back. Really, Jerry? That same can be used now but with a different Jerry, as in Jacobs. Won't want to leave out James Dolan, Ed Snider either. In the classic History of the World, Pt-I theres as scene where the Roman Senate is asked about caring about the poor and their remark is "F-the poor" This is just the tact that these owners are using. Players don't want to give up their 57% of HRR, and who can blame then. Honestly, they should come down to a 50-50 split. Blame to the media as well. Not all, but to those who seem to have their own agenda. This entire process of using the media, more by the NHLPA than ownership (only Bettman is allowed to comment) has got to stop as well. Bettman really doesn't seem to have the ability to grasp the concept that this might be the one time that the "greatest fans" won't come back. Training camps are scheduled to start the 21st. let's hope that happens. I seriously doubt it.
Until the big market team
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 08:43 — lewpulsUntil the big market team owners recognize they have to help the small-market owners through revenue sharing, the players won't accept cuts that mainly enrich the big-market owners. Bettman needs to convince them of this. I have no idea whether he has tried, or whether he even believes it.
Ego is part of it, Gary vs. Don.
I blame big-market owners, Gary, and Don.