Monday debate: trade 'untouchables'

Submitted by chipalexander on 12/19/2011 - 01:01

Canes general manager Jim Rutherford continues to say he's looking at potential trades and has often mentioned dealing a defenseman for a forward.

But should that be it? Or should more players be available and on the table when deals are being discussed? And which ones?

Question: which players would you consider the "untouchables" in potential trades?

The floor is open.

1324270867 Monday debate: trade 'untouchables' The News and Observer Copyright 2011 The News and Observer . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Comments

Untouchable

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 19:08 — sittler27

Its the term "untouchable" that is the sticking point for me. Lets say the Rangers desperately wanted to unite two Staal brothers and offerred the Canes Richards, Callahan and a prospect or high draft pick. Or the Pens wanted to have two Staals and have Eric play with Sidney.... they offerred up Malkin, a prospect and a 2nd rounder. Would you not look at these deals?

Hockey is a business. If at the end of Staal's current contract there has been nothing but frustration here because the team never develops a winner, you don't think he would seriously look at offers from other teams and leave. He would still be young enough to command a big pay day and go to a winner ( assuming we aren't one by then). In sports everything is for sale. Its like the the dialogue in the movie where the conversation is about asking a woman sleep with you for a $100.... the answer is what do you take me for .... a whore? But when the price tag is a million $, then it is a high class business negotation.

There is no question

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 20:03 — abramsdoug

There is no question virtually every player has a price at which a GM would be foolish to decline. I tend to use the term "untouchable" to mean the price is so high that there is virtually no chance of a trade occurring. I would never argue the point that if a crazy good deal came along any player could be traded.

Its all about perspective

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 20:58 — sittler27

Sometimes its all about where you are sitting. We consider Staal and Ward to be untouchable but if you are sitting in other major hockey markets they may consider them just very good players. We throw out names like Rick Nash and Shea Weber as potentially on the market yet in their home towns they may be considered untouchable. I'm sure that if you talked to someone in say Detroit, Montreal, Toronto, Philly, NY, Chicago and even Pittsburg, they would scoff at Staal and Ward being "untouchable" since they consider them to be good, albeit expensive, players on another team and have the old market hockey arrogance to assume that everyone is available. And at some point in their hockey lore each of those fans saw one of their untouchable heros traded. Many here have spoken cavalierly about the Gretzky deal being just a sell off by Pocklington and that Gtertzky helped organize it etc. as if that were just inevitable. Tell that to the people in Edmonton. They had to have police proetection and round the clock security at Pocklington's home. He pretty much had to leave the province. It was like a year of mourning in Edmonton.

WTF

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 02:04 — jenmercer1984

I've been a Canes fan for almost 10 years...I live in Newfoundland, Canada and seeing 15 Hurricanes games a season is considered an excellent year for me...I follow the ticker every night and read to N & O almost every day along with the Hurricanes website....

Its amazing to me how many people have turned on Staal...Like he's the only player struggling...Rick Nash is two spots ahead of him on the +/-, Ovechkin is not exactly setting scoring records this year, Perry is struggling...I mean world class athletes and Eric seems to be the only one anyone can talk about...

I love the Canes and will remain a fan to the end but if Staal gets traded, I mean I don't live in North Carolina but i can't see how that helps the fan base in Carolina if they ship him out of town...

they have three people left from the cup year and all i've heard talks about is sending Eric and Cam out of town...

As far as I'm concerned STAAL, WARD, SKINNER, and possibly LaRose and Ruutu are untouchable...After that everyone is fair game...

I too have been a Caniac...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:17 — gf101112

for almost 10 years. I live in Fountain Valley, Ca., and depending on the schedule, get to attend 1,2, or 3 Canes games a year. This year I was able to go see the Oct. game in St. Louis, and will also attend the Anaheim game on 2/8/12. (which is exactly my 10 year Caniac anniversary 2/8/02!!!) I also read the N & O and Canes website almost every day. But the best way to follow the Canes is by watching the NHL Center Ice Package. If you don't have it, get it. You will love it!!! ( Just like I did in Oct. of '05 when I first bought it!!!) It's the only way for fans outside of Raleigh to enjoy the games. John, Tripp, and Bob are the best announcers in all of hockey!!! From one 10 year Caniac to another, if you can afford it, get it!!! You will not regret it!!! Go Caniacs!!! Go Canes!!!

I AGREE

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:33 — hellfish

I also agree that it would make a bad situation worse by trading Staal due to horrible decisions by the front office in trying to create wins ,and score goals with smoke and mirrors with UFA's they brought in which could eventually work ,but has failed miserably ,which was made even worse by bringing Mo back after not being able to make the playoffs last season ,and the way the team played in that last must win game vs TB carried over to this year.

PK better realize this FACT quick...Your going to HAVE to spend a little more money to win or the fans in this area will NOT stand for it! The triangle area fans are used to having winning teams (UNC/DUKE/2006 Stanley cup) here ,and you can't expect to bring a Stanley cup to the area ,and then be mediocre or worse soon after...NOT ever gonna happen ,so get over it ,and get more serious about winning ,also i will gaurantee the division the Canes will be in next year it will be manditory.

The start of the 2011-2012 season any fan on here could look at the roster and say were about 2 forwards short of being a serious playoff team...again anybody! ,so if PK is a savvy buisness man ,and the owner of compuware surely proves he is then why can't he tell that you have to spend alttle more sometimes to get your buisness where it needs to be? stubborness? maybe ,but it's now obvious as a red ruby in a goat's a** it's not going to work they way you've been trying since the team won the cup ,so quit p**ing up a rope get Staal some talent ,and guess what ,if the team makes it to the first round you'll turn a proffit ,and then some ,so stop crying the small market blues ,and us fans will make you some $money$ or good luck with the STH sales next year!..The rant is over!

Read the posts

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:12 — Canarse

I'm not seeing many posts saying that Staal should be sent out of town. Some, including myself, say he shouldn't be untouchable. It would and should take a lot to get a player of Staal's calibre, but if it's good for the team so be it. I haven't noticed anyone suggested that Ward should be traded.

My suggestion would be to stay away from cliffs.

Staal

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 09:59 — ptucker

Jenmercer,

I'm with you. Staal has certainly struggled this year, his stats are down, and he has had some games where I have been disappointed with his overall effort. That does not mean I'm going to give up on him, though. He is (and will be for many years to come) a superstar player. The difference is that he is a 2nd tier superstar player. A lot of folks here who criticize him so do because they think of him in the same manner as Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, etc. That is not what he is. He is a hard-working, 70-80 point/year player with great fire and passion for the game. And you are right, trading him would be an absolute bonehead move by this organization.

BTW, it's nice to hear we have some loyal fans in the Great White North!

How I became a canes fan

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 19:00 — jenmercer1984

I became a canes fan...and it sounds so weird...is because i was (and still am) a wrestling fan...North Carolina just seems so appealing to me...I saw jeff Hardy ( my fav wrestler) wearing a canes jersey and i didn't know it was a hockey jersey so I went on the internet and found out it was the carolina hurricanes of the nhl.

i didn't even watch hockey but around 2002 i started and at the time just didn't want the leafs to win (my dad is a die hard leaf fan). So when they beat the leafs, I got bragging rights at my school even though i was the only canes fan at my school...probably in the area...

after that i was hooked. watching the 2005-2006 cup season was incredible, my team had won the cup. and months before it pissed me off to no end that staal wasn't selected for team canada for the olympics...call me crazy but they didn't win that year without him and won the next time with him...but hey, i'm a staal family fan through and through...

i know the canes are the nhl poster team and i don't care...they are my team, good or bad i will always be their fan...i even got bought a hartford whalers teeshirt last year...my team is the canes good or bad...as much as i love staal (and ward) if they get traded it would suck but the canes will always be my team

i see games on ottawa's sportsnet channel, tsn, tsn2, rds (watching habs games in french may be the death of me...lol), and nhl network canada...nhl center ice is a FORTUNE and my dad is a leafs fan and we can't see leaf games on there so there isn't enough to justify spending a crazy amount of money...

Last week I saw the calgary game on one channell and then saw there was a week long preview on centre and got to see the edmonton and winniped games...to me that was a GREAT week...whether i get to see the games or not they will always have someone here on the rock who will always be pulling for them...win or lose they are still my champs...

How I became a canes fan

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 18:59 — jenmercer1984

Easiest way to get Staal some help

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:05 — Canarse

The easiest, and cheapest way to get Staal some help would be to punt this season to the curb and plan for next season. Trade most if not all of the pending UFAs including Gleason, Allen, Spacek and Ruutu. Bring up the kids and let them get some valuable experience and see what you have. Sure, the Canes will lose a lot of games, but that's the idea. At the end of the season you'll know which of the young players to keep and which to unload. Most importantly the Canes would hopefully have the right to draft Nail Yakupov. Yakupov is a potential superstar to rival Staal, Stamkos, etc.

As far as the UFA players go I would think retooling in this manner would make signing with the Hurricanes a much more attractive option. If the Canes scrape and claw and end up drafting 4th or 5th the time it will take to be competitive would be much longer. Pulling in Yakupov and freeing up a bunch of money to make a run at a couple quality FAs could put the Canes back in the mix next season.

Yakupov, Girgorenko, Galchenyuk, perhaps Forsberg

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:44 — abramsdoug

Yakupov, Girgorenko, Galchenyuk, and perhaps Forsberg are all rated by various scouting services as nearly identical in being the elite forwards of the draft. There is some variation. There might be a slight edge in terms of scouting reports putting Yakupov and Girgorenko as above Galchenyuk and Forsberg. As far as Yakupov and Girgorenko are concerned, it's seen as a toss up based on the present vast majority of scouting reports. Most today have Yakupov listed as #1 and Girgorenko listed as #2. It reads like the Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin debate. All four would be a sea change for the Hurricanes.

Staal and His Role

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:15 — abramsdoug

Staal is indeed a superstar, but of the next level below Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, and Stamkos. There is no shame in being an NHL superstar. Generational players are incredibly rare; and it is unfair to harshly judge Staal as a player solely because he is not one of the top five NHL players. Staal is a tremendous player; and will be a player whose play improves dramatically if and when the Hurricanes are able to draft a forward at least as good as Skinner and Staal.

Due to where the Hurricanes are presently located in the standings and due to the depth of the 2012 draft pool, the Hurricanes are in position to obtain another star. It's critically important not to miss this opportunity. As an example, through nobody's negligence but certainly unfortunately, Jack Johnson was selected by the Hurricanes rather than Marc Staal. Jack Johnson apparently did not want to play for the Hurricanes. If one could erase that decision and add Marc Staal, the Hurricanes would have an improved defense. David Tanabe also comes to mind as a high draft pick that did not work well.

Once Staal has on his line players who are at least as good as he is in skill and talent, he'll be vastly more successful. Help is really not that far away.

WHO STAYS AND WHO GOES?

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 22:11 — hockey101

The untouchables would be Skinner, Ward, Sutter, Faulk, Brent, and maybe Staal. Everyone else will be traded at the trade deadline, so look for a different team the second half of the season with the guys from Charlotte up here. The only question now is will PK open the wallet and spend the money needed to put a team on the ice next season to win night in and night out since this year has been a BUST.

Also JR has to sign Skinner this off season whose contract end next year to avoid any offer sheets from any other team.

Good Question

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 13:50 — spookyalf

I know that a lot of people feel that there are untouchables, but we all have to realize that we have to give up something to get something. Meaning a fan favorite will have to go, and whomever can bring in the most value. That also means that the people we feel are untouchable maybe one of the players going. Ultimately, this decision will fall on Jim Rutherford to get the best deal he can get, beit FA signing or a trade. What probably is going to happen, in all honesty, one of these untouchables will probably be traded. You are not going to get top forward talent for Chad LaRose.

I feel at least Skinner, Pitkänen, Ward, Ruutu, Sutter, and possibly Staal should stay. Looking at the potential UFA market, there is some talent, but not much, and that all depends on their potential teams signing them before UFA hits. Semin and Parise are probably the two biggest names that I can think of off the top of my head. Then there comes the issue of the player wanting to sign here when their agent gives them the information.

Currently we have Pitkänen and Skinner out, and the question remains is will they be placed on either IR or LTIR. As of right now, I honestly don't think that any GM would take an injured player if Pitkänen was the one to be traded. There is no timeline for his return.

Untouchables

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 13:47 — CharlotteCaniac

I'd say Ward and Skinner would be my only untouchables. I'm not convinced that you couldn't find a better replacement for any of the other guys based on a similar contract value. Of course it is doubtful that those teams with those players would be willing to part ways with them. I'm not impressed enough with the upcoming draft to trade any big pieces for high picks at this point, however.

Staal/Skinner/Ward/Faulk/Joki

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 14:06 — hellfish

Staal/Skinner/Ward/Faulk/Jokinen and Ruutu depending on amount of resigning him ,and i would'nt want to give up Bowman or Dalpe either ,but all in all just add a second line center and a RW to play with Staal ,and i'm fine with Bowman on the other wing as that line has played very well ,and has good chemistry just in a couple of games. Pitkanen now having a concussion history could make him hard to trade as with Harrison. Ruutu resigning would imo make's the most sense along with adding 2 top 6 forwards.

Btw "If' Skinner and Pitkanen were in the lineup vs Fl/Tor those two OT loses could've easily been wins.

With Victor Rask possibly making the team next year ,and with Muller's coaching will make the biggest difference with the team ,and if Muller would have been hired 4-5 games earlier our chances of making the playoffs would be alot better(after the @Montreal game comes to mind) ,However i would like to get better on the blueline by adding a shutdown Dman to pair with Murphy next year assuming he will make the team which i'd say he will.

open mind

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 11:43 — DavidMeyer

JR needs to keep an open mind. This team needs an overhaul, so I suggest we should have very few untouchables. In my book we need to keep Ward, Skinner, Staal, Sutter, in that order. Everyone else should be considered as fair game. That doesn't mean they all need to be traded, but we should be willing to consider fair offers for all others.

If I am JR, my #1 priority is finding high quality linemates for Staal on the first line. We cannot become a great team again unless we have a top line that is a threat to score everytime on the ice. We do not have that right now.

#2 priority is a top end shutdown d-man. We have got to stop the madness in front of Cam Ward, as it is bringing him down too.

Lots of worries for JR. But at least we took the necessary first step; changed coaches.

Really?

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 11:37 — Hockeydad92

With this team nobody should be safe. I would not want to deal Skinner, Sutter, Staal or Ward nor would I like to part with some of our prospect / young guys that are still in development like McBain or Faulk. That being said I could conjurer up trades for any of them although highly unlikely. The question should really be who do we have that anybody wants and would it result in a player or pick that could make our team better. My guess is Gleason or Ruutu will be next to move followed by Juice, Allen or Joni.

Untouchables

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 10:16 — CaniacCathye

The only ones I consider untouchable are Staal, Ward, Skinner, Sutter and Faulk.

Skinner, Ward, Sutter, and

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 09:12 — Hockeydog

Skinner, Ward, Sutter, and Faulk are the only true untouchables in my book. These are the players I would not even listen to offers for.

Staal, (maybe) McBain, and Pitkinen are players I consider virtual untochables. I'd listen to offers for them but they'd have to be soo good I couldn't turn them down.

Sadly I'd consider everyone else in play, depending on the offers of course.

I agree with Abramsdoug

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 08:29 — ctill

I agree with Abramsdoug on Staal, Ward, Skinner, Sutter, Faulk, and McBain. As for Pitkanen and Ruutu, I'd say it depends on the offer. If a GM elsewhere in the league wants either of those players so badly that disproportionate consideration is offered, take it -- particularly with Ruutu's UFA uncertainty.

The UnTouchables

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 08:22 — abramsdoug

Jim Rutherford was clear in a recent interview that he was going to change this team and move some players. It's a natural consequence of a year in which the Hurricanes cannot consistently win. On the other hand, it's unhelpful to view the team as being worse than it is. The core team is excellent.

The Hurricanes need two upper tier top six forwards, either from the development of prospects, trades, or UFA signings. The untouchables, however, should be retained at all costs. I believe the untouchables should be: Staal, Ward, Skinner, Sutter, Ruutu, Pitkanen, Faulk, and McBain. Anybody else for the right return should be traded. As a practical observation, Tim Brent would be hard to replace. I would not want to trade him except for a very significant return relatively.

Team core

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 11:50 — Canarse

I just can't buy that the core of the team is all that good. What I hear you saying is that the reason this is one of the worst teams in the league and has bad locker room chemistry (according to Rutherford) is because of the fringe players? C'mon.

The only untouchables to me would be Ward, Faulk, Skinner and Sutter. The rest would be available at the right price. This team has too many "puck moving" defensemen, which is JR talk for soft defensively. Glad to see Kaberle gone. Pitkanen is expendable at this point with McBain improving and Murphy in the wings. Faulk is quickly becoming the best defenseman on the team. He is surprisingly strong on the boards and has the ability to make things happen. As he gets more confidence I think we'll see that happen more often. He made a great play last night when someone left the puck about 8 ft. in front of the net with no one around. Faulk shot from behind the goal to get the puck and clear it. I thought for sure that one was going to be in the back of the net. I didn't know he had the quicks to do that.

Monday debate: trade 'untouchables'

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Untouchable

There is no question

Its all about perspective

WTF

I too have been a Caniac...

I AGREE

Read the posts

Staal

How I became a canes fan

How I became a canes fan

Easiest way to get Staal some help

Yakupov, Girgorenko, Galchenyuk, perhaps Forsberg

Staal and His Role

WHO STAYS AND WHO GOES?

Good Question

Untouchables

Staal/Skinner/Ward/Faulk/Joki

open mind

Really?

Untouchables

Skinner, Ward, Sutter, and

I agree with Abramsdoug

The UnTouchables

Team core

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Monday debate: trade 'untouchables'

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