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Monday debate: Tim Conboy

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We know he's popular. We know he's tough. We know he can be used at forward or on defense. We know he'll drop the gloves and go at it whenever it's necessary.

Tim Conboy got the Canes cranked up in the first period Sunday with a nice scuffle with the Avs' Chris Stewart. In the three games since he was called up from the Albany River Rats, the Canes have won all three. Carolina is 5-0-3 this season and 18-4-5 all-time with Conboy in the lineup.

Question: Should he have been playing for the Canes all along this season? 

The floor is open.

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Conboy = good

I have liked his play so far. He's a physical player who has more skill than you'd think. Not mad skill by any stretch but pretty good for the type of player he is. I think he hasn't been up here all year just because of numbers.

In my humble opinion

Timmy Conboy should've been playing up here all year or at least after they started getting their weewees whacked every game. However, I consider JR, Mo and Lavi to be much smarter about these things than me. Conboy has a two way contract this season with a one way next season. And considering Mo's first impression of Conboy was a penalty that cost the Canes a penatly shot. After Montreal scored on the penalty shot Conboy didn't touch the ice the rest of the game and was sent back to Albany the next day. Remember first impressions are hard to overcome but I think Conboy is proving himself in Mo's eyes.

Conboy makes a difference

Look what was posted from the Canes. "The Hurricanes are 5-0-3 this season with Tim Conboy in the lineup, and 18-4-5 all-time in games with Conboy in the lineup". I am not a rocket scientist but it seems pretty simple on if he should stay or go back.

Bayda and Ryan are

Bayda and Ryan are unrestricted free agents after this season. It wouldn't surprise me if JR declines to bid for them. The pipeline of forwards is full (Sutter, Boychuk, Helminen, Dwyer, and Petruzalek). Not to mention, JR will probably have to throw more money at LaRose and Seidenberg, who are also UFAs.

He could now...

But teenagers can't play in the minors. It's a mechanism to make sure the Canadian junior leagues don't get robbed of talent, only to have guys "develop" in the minors.

It's the same reason that Boychuk isn't with the team this year... AHL wasn't an option, so he had to go back to juniors.

thank you

Thanks for clearing that up. However, when he is old enough, he does need a bit of AHL seasoning.

Sutter needs to go to Albany

Sutter should've been in Albany all year to get used to the physical play. We've never heard boo about him not being in the lineup. I thought he was suffering from an upper/lower/middle/behind/above/below body injury.

Our team, our tradition.

Learn the rules.

Sutter wasn't eligible to play in the minors, which is why he was here.

happy birthday

As of Feb 14, Brandon is old enough to play in the AHL... now the concern is a one-way contract (I think), and this is where I lose track of the rules about the number of callups, etc. a player can have before they have to clear waivers.

now, let's not get too negative here

Sorry, my mistake. Why can't he play in the minors?

Minor's

 Because of his age I believe he would have had to go back to juniors.

Keep him in

Pretty obvious that he should stay in lineup. I am not sure how appropriate it is correlate our last three game success to Conboy being in the lineup, but if it is, keep him in. He's not hurting us and he can play in most situations - I don't think he should play more 7min/game though. Bigger issue is: what do we do with the trade deadline fastly approaching - buyers, sellers, movers, or sit on our hands. Be nice if we could pickup a top four defenseman - gotta think Seidenburg and Eaves are dispensable depending on what we get back: Derek Morris, Jeordan Leopold, Adrian Aucoin. One of those type guys eats up a lot of minutes and gives us better matchup options. We'll see.

No Brainer

Funny how JR and MO are the last two to "get it" when it comes to what Conboy brings to the table...but hey, the record with Conboy in the lineup is not a coincidence...take a minute after a Conboy fight or big hit and watch the reaction of his teammates to what he does. And while Conboy may be serving two or five minutes in the box for sticking up for his teammates, consider thats valuable playing time that a guy like Tim Gleason plays a regular shift instead of sitting in the box. Guys like Staal, Samsonov, Whitney and Cullen play bigger and have a bit more room to move out there when they know a guy like Conboy has got their backs. Conboy has a one way contract next season with the Canes so hopefully that means he is a mainstay on the fourth line next season doing what he does best.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

JR made a huge mistake giving a 1-way deal to Brookbank over Conboy. It was obvious from last season that Conboy was a much better fighter, & a much better all-around player. He can play forward or defense, & he brings a ton of energy every night. Brookbank was a zero-dimensional player. He was on the team to fight, & was not a good fighter. Therefore, he never played. Good for the coaching staff for being willing to sit Sutter to get Conboy into the lineup. With a smallish team prone to lulls in their intensity, Conboy's toughness & energy are especially critical to our success.

Rubbing Off

It seems like Conboy not only brings the physical element to the team, he rubs off some of it on his teammates. Did anyone else see the Seidenberg hit from last night? If not, watch the game highlights. If so, it was one of the better ones from this season.

Conboy seems to also bring an extra effort from his teammates back in Albany. Every since learning of the horrible bus accident, I have noticed an extra effort from Mr. Conboy. A touching gesture for the group that he led in Albany. Kudos to you Tim, kudos indeed!

The (team imposed) cap, contracts, etc.

Yes, agree. But JR has a contract shuffle to contend with, that's one reason he has not been up all the time.

When Walker comes off IR, send Ryan back and keep Tim. Frankly, I hope Williams stays on IR until he gets his game back. Williams has, unfortunately, been a drag on the team. (He'll be back some day, but he just has too many serious injuries to contend with right now.) Question is: will he come back in the last week of the season and sink the team again? I love the guy, but he needs rehab until next season starts.

Meanwhile, before worrying about that, for now if everyone is healthy, maybe sit out a rotation of Conboy, Bayda, Eaves and Sutter as game conditions demand. Let them fight for the right to play.

I'm not a GM, I just play one on the internet...

For all of those who want to play GM and send Bayda down to the minors, I would just like to point out that Mr Bayda was given a ONE WAY contract in the offseason.  You cannot just send him down to the minors on a whim.  At the very least he would have to clear waivers before he is sent down. That is assuming that his contract is not structured so that he cannot be sent down (I don't know).  Plus, if he is sent down he still gets paid his full NHL salary and counts against the cap, for whatever that's worth.  (This is the same situtaion we were in with Brookbank, one way contract so if he is not playing he's a healthy scratch)

If/when Walker comes back, I think you will see Michael Ryan or Conboy back down in Albany.  When/if Williams comes back you will see both of them back in Albany.  Depending of course on any possible trades, etc.

My guess would be that you will see Sutter and Bayda rotating time as healthy scratches over the rest of the season, but that's just my guess.

 

-m

re: Williams

Williams can't get the game back unless he plays the game. His timing and skating was returning. His injury was tough for everyone as he just was getting back. I don't see him as dragging down the team. There's another veteran player, regretfully, that is doing just fine at that. Same thing happened with Cullen after his concussion. Yes, different injury but how long ago was that? It takes time to get back to form and look what Cullen's doing now that he had time.

Fair enough

Oh, I agree, the timing was returning.  I would not have wanted to see him out of the line-up if he wasn't hurt.

But now he's hurt.  Scheduled to come back right before the playoffs begin.  How did that work out for us last year when guys came back at that time?  Is that the time to work on his timing?  Maybe, if the playoffs are assured.  I dunno.  Tough call, because it would be nice to have a player like Williams totally intact in the playoffs.

But with his injuries, it is going to be difficult.

 

We sorely need him ...

To anyone who knows anything about this game, it is clear that the team is better with a Tim Conboy-type in the lineup. An tough, enthusiastic guy who gives his all and makes his teammates play 2 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier. Although not necessarily directly in points, he brings more to the table than Bayda, Ryan, or I would even say Eaves.

It is truly a shame that Rutherford and Maurice do not seem to get it. The players play better with him in the lineup. The fans are behind him and excited to watch him play and the different team that shows up when he's in the lineup. Send Ryan down and get Sutter back in the lineup. Let's get a line of Sutter, Conboy, and Eaves rolling. Let Conboy, Sutter, Eaves, and Bayda all battle it out to see who gets to play each night.

Tim Conboy makes us a

Tim Conboy makes us a tougher team to play against. Whether it be on defense or forward he is playing his heart out and providing a spark when the rest of the team needs it.

We've needed this type of grit and it will help in this final stretch drive.

Interesting Stats

That's impressive! Although I don't believe we can directly attribute that record to Conboy's presence in the line-up, I do believe that he has a positive effect on the team when he is in there. Conboy brings a lot to the table including versatility, toughness, energy, and not the least of all....Heart (something this team can always use more of).

Why not sit Bayda and use Conboy as a regular? Is there anything that Bayda contributes to the team that Conboy couldn't? I realize that Bayda scored his 5th goal yesterday but I think the Canes are a better team with Conboy.

I also think Sutter needs to be back in the line-up. Nice thinking Mo, sit one of the guys who does give his all each and every game...wouldn't want too many guys on the team that do that now would we.

actually...

I was going to attribute our wins more to sutter being out than needing to be back in.  he isn't very big, and is still young, he needs to play, but he also needs to hit the weights a little bit. 

bayda has a few more years on sutter and several more goals.  Sutters last point was 12/27, and has 1 goal and 5 assists this year.  I think Mo made the right choice.  I like sutter but if i had to choose, it would be bayda.

nice thinking canes 73 sit a player who is more versitile with more experience for a player who rarely produces offensivley.  Blaming mo is like blaming him for the rain over the weekend.

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I am Johnnyg and I approved this message.

Compare the stats

Bayda is 28 years old.  Which is past the point when he should have peaked so this is as good as it's going to get.  Yes, Bayda has more points but has also played 11 more games and plays about 3 minutes more per game.  I wouldn't exactly call Bayda big either at 5'11" and 185 pounds.  Bayda is exactly the size of player the Canes have way too many of.  The only thing that separates him and the other under sized players is skill....Bayda has none.  Sutter on the other hand is only 20 and has a much bigger upside.  He is 6'3" and will add on more bulk to his frame....he is still growing.  Sutter is a very smart player and learns quickly.  For a 20 year old he has not looked out of place at all.  He has even spent a lot of time killing penalties, which speaks to his sound defensive play.  With Bayda, we are just wasting valuable ice time on a guy that should be a career minor leaguer.

 

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I am Johnnyg and I'm an idiot.

Well, you're not Johnnyg...

... so do we have to just go with the 2nd option?

[We're all entitled to our opinions, no?  What's up with the personal attack?]

Now then, 

My understanding is that Mo wants to rest Sutter, that this isn't an exile, just a temporary thing.  I was surprised to see him get scratched, too, but don't think it's a bad move. 

 Both guys numbers are too small to put any meaningful comparison/conclusions around.  To my eyes, Sutter has slowed down a bit since early in the season, when he seemingly was playing a bit better every game.  Bayda, while small, has certainly been willing to give & take his lumps in front of and behind the net, digging for pucks guys many guys on this team back off of.

I don't think it's time to base the lineup decisions entirely on developmental moves (i.e. the 20yo vs. 28 yo argument).  We have no idea who is really nursing what sort of injuries, etc.  Let's see how this plays out over more than just a two game span before we start calling each other names (much less the guys that are actually making the decisions).

My Opinion

That's exactly what I was doing...voicing my opinion.

If sitting Sutter was just to give him a little rest - that's great, but if it was due to his play - then I disagree with the decision.  Sutter is young and needs to play to continue his development to help this team in the long run.

My understanding...

... is that Brandon is getting some rest. Think about it, they are 61 games in, has Brandon ever played 61 games of NHL level hockey? I am sure he is tired and Mo wants him down the stretch, smart move.

Tough decision will have to be made when Walker is ready to come back.

We need this guy...

Fortunately for we purists, fighting is still allowed in this great game. It is a vital pert of the game, it helps keep players honest. I am not a fan of the old Tie Domi/Bob Probert bouts of the past. Goon-on-goon fights are meaningless. But Conboy can hardly be considered a goon. He is the CAPTAIN of his AHL team, an honor that speaks to his character and skill. His versatility is invaluable to the Canes right now. He reminds me of a younger Scott Walker-decent skill, tough as nails, and prototype hockey player mentality. I would give Conboy a regular shift on defense, put him on the power play and tell him to park his butt right in front of the net. We have plenty of fancy-skating, offensively gifted players on this team. We need more of the sandpaper provided by players like Gleason, Walker, and Conboy. Let them fight. Demand that they use their body to punish anyone who dares to enter our zone or take liberties with our stars. The '06 squad was like watching a pack of wolverines on skates. We have a similar set of skill players to that team. What we need to rekindle is the TEAM TOUGHNESS. That is something that is contagious-and it spreads from a player like Tim Conboy. GO CANES!!

Mr. Conboy from day one,

needed to be in the lineup. His physicality and moxie increase the team's confidence that someone has their back. It was great to see the team respond positively to the Avalanche's physical play. It would be folly to remove him from the lineup. He was the difference maker last night as his fight sparked the team, crowd, and gave Cam the chance to collect himself. This team needs to be able to match the toughness of other teams. Players like Mr. Conboy and Mr. Ruutu, the consummate hockey player, are exactly what this team needs. Toughness, skill, energy intelligence, brave enough to park in front of the net, consistent hits, all comprise Mr. Ruutu's playmaking ability. A fine example. If we could keep Ruutu (RFA?) and Conboy in the lineup, there's a decent chance of making the playoffs (59.2% as of today http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL/Eastern/Southeast/Hurricanes.html) The rest of the team's play has been improving lately. The Canes have skill/talent. I just don't understand why some of them don't always seem to have the confidence in their own abilities. They got to this level because they're in the top 1% of the hockey skill class, so just play every game hard, be physical, HAVE FUN, and the wins should come. Look at who we've got: Staal, Ruutu, Cully, Whitney, Samsonov, Corvo, Gleason, Conboy, Seidenberg, Wallin, LaRose, Brindy (looking so much better), Sutter (what gives w/ taking him out of the lineup?) Ward (when focused) there's no reason we shouldn't be in the playoffs with these guys. This team has a great opportunity to be an uplifting force in a troublesome time for many folks, like Seabiscuit was. Conboy is the spark toward that. Go Canes !

good luck charm

keep him. its worked so far
i got tired of seeing us pushed around in the first period and then that hit on gleason that cut him open was too much.

you tell me right now who on our team would have said Enough of that!

i say no one. I remember our first playoff series with the devils in 2001 after awhile you just get tired of it and start fighting back.

go canes

Conboy Needed to be a Hurricanes All Season

Yes, the Hurricanes as a team would have been better with Conboy on the ice. I think it has to do with the overall emotions of the team. Conboy brings an attitude of physicality and determination that the team as a whole desperately needs. A good team is better than the sum of its parts. Without Conboy the team struggles to be almost as good as the sum of its parts; and with Conboy, the team is better than the sum of its parts. If it were easy to understand the role chemistry plays in building a professional team, anybody could do it. The secret is to recognize what is working and to stick with it -- even when the reasons for the success may not be fully understood.

IMHOP

While being " bully-boy" ( as some might or would say) or a advid defender of his team mates, can & is a great thing... and we know the guy, when not dropping the gloves...is good at the NHL level at either posistion he can and has been asked to play. But a quality player knows that the best contribution he can make is by helping the team get the puck into the net more than sitting in the box.

Now in his defence...he is what the canes have needed. maybe if he had been here say just after thanksgiving...the Canes could or would be past Buffalo or Florida in a better posistion than we are now...But the bottom line is and ought to be...does Conboy's stats here as well down at Albany prove the other side of the debate...Sadly in many leagues around hockey in many levels...there are several "goons" whose job it is to rattle,shake up players from the other team...and their production totals are low and time in the box or on suspention higher than most players...but Conboy as a player over all really isn't a goon type player...if we were to look back in history...at some of the rougher players...say like a Stan Makita, who like Conboy was never afraid to mix it up...but later on got smart and played a better brand / style of hockey...After all if you were to ask Tim...would he be happy being ' brawler' in the AHL all of his professional hockey life ? I don't think so...

 

Go Canes !!

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About the blogger

A Raleigh native, Chip has worked at the N&O since 1979 and is the Canes beat writer. He can be reached at chip.alexander@newsobserver.com. You can follow him on Twitter at @ice_chip.
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