Have gotten good feedback the past two weeks on pending unrestricted free agents Joni Pitkanen and Chad LaRose, let's talk about another: Jussi Jokinen.
The "Juice" is a versatile player and a popular one, as well. He has played all three forward positions and on every line. He's crafty on the power play and good on faceoffs.
Canes general manager Jim Rutherford says signing Jokinen could be tough. It's believed he could be seeking as much as $3 million a year on the free-agent market.
Question: what should the Canes do about Jokinen? Meet his price? Let him go? And what would be a fair price for him?
The floor is open.
A Raleigh native, Chip has worked at the N&O since 1979 and is the Canes beat writer. He can be reached at 
Comments
Juice
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 22:03 — ammy144I am perplexed as to why there is a question about who is more valuable to the team, Rosey or the Juice. While I readily admit that I am a novice compared to some of the great posters we have on this blog, I don't think the two are in any way in the same league. The Juice should have already been signed! I hope Cole will be reasonable in what he wants in a new contract because I do like him. We have no power play and we desperately need some defense and we need some consistency in face off wins. None of our current coaches on the bench seem to have any fire or excitement. Wonder who will replace Ron? Just random thoughts. Love my Canes!
Sign the Juice already
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 20:22 — girlshockeydadJussi can play all of the forward positions & has. His flexibility & ability to play any position is very valuable to the team. Jussi can switch lines during a game without any drop off in play, that will very difficult to replace.
Keep Him
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 09:29 — squeaky83As already mentioned, Jussi is a valuable member of this team. He's put up 50+ points the last two years, scored 30 goals previously, contributed hugely in our playoff run, is a key shoot out competitor, and can play on any of our top three lines in any role. He's a team player and a decent two way forward. That's tough to replace. It isn't available from our prospects, and in the free agent market compared to his peers with the same scoring background he's clearly worth 2.75 to 3.5 mil per year. He's said he likes it here and wants to stay. Three mil per year for three years would be a relatively low payday compared to what he would get in free agency. It's a decent compromise, or if we have faith in our prospects, sign him for two.
I agree we have to keep Cole, we have no one like him in the power forward role, though as mentioned he's oft injured and performs best when due a contract--plus he's getting over 33 when most fast guys start to slow down. Loss of speed will hurt Cole more than other power forwards since he isn't as big. Given those factors, he shouldn't be getting a big raise. That said, I'm afraid JR may be thinking 4 mil for Cole, which I feel would be overpayment. Same philosphy for paying LaRose, we're all thinking 1 mil or less, but I wouldn't be surprised if LaRose gets 1.5 Mil from JR due to his "perceived" value.
Lastly, JR wants (and needs) to lock up Sutter, and he'll probably overpay there as well--given his scoring, Sutter is a 2.25 to 2.5 mil per year third line Center, not a top six guy. I can see JR paying him 3 mil to lock him up.
This is where I think JR gets his math that Jussi isn't worth the money--he'll probably pay too much for his personal favorites, despite their performance, leaving budget issues for players who actually earned more but aren't considered his core. If we lose Jussi, we take a step back in performance--much like we did when we didn't want to spend a half mil or less more for Cullen--who we also couldn't replace, or AWard when we first let him walk, or Seidenberg, etc. Yet we lament their loss, and we have brought them back later after our mistakes. Yet we were unwilling to fork out the less the 500k needed to keep them like it apears we're thinking about doing with Jussi.
It scares me, seems wrong for the team, but it's been done repeatedly before...
Contracts
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 21:56 — sittler27On another note, a sobering thought on signing free agents.... some thought we should go after Shea Weber who is a RFA an d that he could be had for $6mil. Talk around the league is that he will be resigned by the Preds at a around $7 to $7.5 mil per year on a long term deal. With Rafalksi retiring and Lidstrom going either this year or next, the Wings will be looking for D depth and have deep pockets. Look for the bidding to be high on top 4 D types. We should have signed Joni when we had the inside track.... I now doubt we will be in the running for any of the top 8 available free agent D and after that the pickings are slim at best.
Salary Cap Floor is Going Up
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 10:02 — abramsdougThe salary cap floor is said to be increasing to at least $60 million, if not over $62 million. The new partners cannot come soon enough. I continue to favor re-signing Pitkanen; but I wonder if Pitkanen and his agent haven't already concluded it would be in his best interest to truly test the UFA market. It's going to be far more expensive to replace Pitkanen than some people think.
I also think it is not going to be simple or inexpensive to replace Jokinen. Jokinen has been a player who has won quite a number of games for the Hurricanes. He seldom costs the Hurricanes games with mental lapses, bad penalties, or missed shots at open nets. His prowess at the shootout, even if he was not on his "A" game in the shootout this year, has been a significant help for the Hurricanes. I am cautiously optimistic Jokinen's agent and Jim Rutherford can find a middle ground and that he'll re-sign ultimately.
I continue to shake my head about the LaRose situation. Of all the forwards the Hurricanes can replace without much if any risk, it's LaRose. Of course, I realize I am not on the buses, planes, or team meetings with the team; but I really think somebody else would fill the team chatter void if LaRose were not re-signed.
contracts
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 22:50 — louis12580I agree that it is disconcerting that Detroit might be in the mix for a Joni type. I don't think he's a good fit there. They are a puck possession team and while Joni is an above average skater and a fine passer there is a lot of pressure in Detroit. Don't know if Joni can handle that. Perhaps they'll target Kevin Bieksa partially because he's much improved and partially to get him there and not in Vancouver. Again, the only one who knows what Jim is thinking is Jim himself.
I like Jokinen and would
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 17:33 — CanarseI like Jokinen and would like to see him as a Cane next season, but the comments here make it out that he is all-star calibre. He is a nice offensive player, but he also has some liabilities as a defensive player. He was run out of Dallas and Tampa for poor defensive play. His work ethic isn't what I would call stellar. $3M a year is a lot for this guy.
Running a franchise is a business and sometimes you have to let some guys go. When you are a low budget team you also need your young guys to step up. If one or two of the Charlotte forwards don't step up next season it won't matter how much they spend. I say sign Jussi and let Cole walk, but if you are going to keep Cole Jussi has to go.
Agree on Jussi
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:50 — sittler27I agree with your assessment. He has offensive talent and gives you an honest effort. He has had some periods of defensive inconsistency but has responded when called on it by the Canes coaches.
I think that what he brings can be more readily replaced by prospects or through free agency at a more modest price. But how many power forwards are there out there who combine the speed and strength of what Cole brings. That is a more unique commodity and we have too little size as it is. My vote would be to sign Cole even if it means losing Jussi.
+1
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 18:02 — HockeydogCole doesn't have gifted hands, but he is truly world class with his combination of speed and strength. I would be bummed to see Jussi not return. He did have his inconsistancies and therefore wouldn't be a catastrophic loss but can step up when really needed. His salary would have to work within a framework that would allow JR to improve the team in other areas. Pitkinen I think is going to price himself off the team, and Sutter's deal is a wild card, but I'd have to think JR could get Cole and Jokinen if he let LaRose go and replaced him with Checkers. It is JR's mad love for player like LaRose that have held the team back.
Pay Jussi What He's Worth...
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 12:05 — SkylinerI rather suspect a bevy of other NHL General Managers are just salivating when hearing Mr. Rutherford's priorities; waiting to see who can get Jussi's name on a contract. Of all three (LaRose, Cole, and Jokinen) is there any question who would be the first to be picked off during free agency?
Jussi is a play-maker; he makes things happen on the ice, makes everyone around him a better player. Personally, I like the latter two, but simply believe Jussi is a superior talent and much more valuable to the Hurricanes. Of course, Cole and LaRose are part of the "family" and the good old boy network seems more important to management than a winning team.
Both Cole and LaRose should be easy bargaining. Did LaRose have any takers when he tested free agency last time?. So Cole has a banner year (in the Carolina system) but let's remember his absence of expectations when he went to Edmonton. Also, they both want to stay in Carolina and both probably have suspected neither might get the ice time and support elsewhere that they get in Carolina. So...
If the GM wants chatter.................. Get a parrott.
If the GM wants good intentions.....Sign Cole
If the GM wants results...................Sign Jussi!
A bit harsh.
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 18:16 — sittler27OK, I can agree on the LaRose comment. Someone will step up to replace that energy and chatter that Chad brings. But "good intentions" to describe Cole. It take real guts to drop your shoulder and go hard right to the net with speed and a top shut down D-man on your back. Cole had a true power forward year this season and I think deserves a but more credit than being accused of "good intentions".
"Both Cole and LaRose should be easy bargaining."
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:12 — robotron2084To my mind, that is the point. They are the "priority" because they should be done quickly and easily. And for as much as it makes sense that Jussi be a priority, in the end it won't matter. I'm sure JR, through his exit interview or other means, is keenly aware that Jokinen intends to test the market. As a result, there's likely very little point to "making him a priority" because Jussi (and by that I really mean his agent) aren't really paying any attention until they see what other teams put on the table. He may very well like to stay here, but I'm sure he'd like to know what the rest of the league, and not just the Canes, think his worth is - even if only to get something in that range from the Canes.
Bottom line is Jussi has virtually nothing to lose by waiting it out until July and seems to have given every indication (to the Canes FO) that that is what he intends to do. So the Canes have to sit and wait. And again, as for LaRose, so what? Someone has to play on the 4th line and get a paycheck. I still fail to see what that has to do with Jokinen (unless someone thinks the Canes are planning to give LaRose $2 million per to play there). But I will grant you that Cole is a different matter.
Jossi vs Cole
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 09:27 — Caniac5This is a hard one to call! Both have pros and cons and it depends on what best suits the team as a whole. Jussi is a great passer, has a nice shot, and was brought here for his shot-out skills. Cole is a drive hard forward, get in your face, fast skater! So...which one best benefits the team?
I will say that Cole, to me, is a francise player. He has been through a lot but always comes back strong. This last year really showed his recovery, which is a miracle in itself! He was a great mentor for Staal and has been for Skinner as well. (Yes, I am a Cole fan!)
Jussi is a fan favorite as well with great hands and moves. Only issue is, his shootout skills seem to have disappeared. I would love to have them both back on the team.
JR, this is a tough call but we all hope you make the move, or not, for what is best for the team!
GO CANES!!!
The Juice
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:36 — hockey101I agree with what everyone is saying about LaRose and Jussi. Here is a guy who was put on waivers twice and not picked up by any other team until we got him. He has played exceptionaly well since coming to Carolina. To me he is worth the money. Give him a multi year deal starting at 2.5 to 2.75mil and up to 3 mil. LaRose is expendable. We have guys in Charlotte who can fill his place. When LaRose was given a new contract, much was expected out of him but instead he got hurt and his numbers tailed off.
My only concern is that JR is going to overpay Eric and will he have another career year this season or is he going to sit back knowing he's got the money and produce less. It seems like another guy name Staal did just that.
JR RESIGN THE JUICE!!
I like how people just...
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:02 — robotron2084casually say things like "Give him a multi year deal starting at 2.5 to 2.75mil and up to 3 mil." (I'm not intending to pick on anyone in particular as it's been said in one form or another a few times), as if Jussi will just sign it. He may not. He will likely wait until July to see what other teams are offering. Someone may offer $3 million per for those 3 years, maybe more, we have no idea (nor does he).
It's simply not as easy as saying give him x/y/z. He (and his agent) would still have to accept it and their goals may be higher than that.
JJ
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 11:03 — hellfishThe idea of making Cole or Rosey a "priority" over Jussi is something i'd never say or be quoted on in public and makes JR seem "confused" what it does is confuse us fans that know Jussi brings so much more than either Cole or Rosey.
Cole being 32 and yr to yr inconsistant and injury prone makes him a question mark and rosey's 3rd period game killing brain cramp penalty's make this more than a head scratcher ,"if" it were me in JR's shoes it would be bye-bye to Cole/Rosey and Jussi would've already been signed period.
The young guy's in Charlotte could come in and fill in for Cole/Rosey easier than Jussi which none are that NHL savvy yet ,and let me ask anybody here who on the team is more "clutch" tha Jussi? boy that;s easy beyond even Staal ,Jussi is the most versatile and clutch player on the team period and there it's not even argueable at all other than some "fans' would not have there player names on there jersey's up to date.
I don't care about mandated salary caps when there are certain players that the team HAS TO keep to get to the next level period you just don't get players like Jussi off tree's any time you need one. This team will enter yr #3 with no playoff run...Look spending a couple mil$$ over your self imposed cap and making the playoffs is FAR more proffitable than missing the playoffs by 1 game again all that lost revenue to the team/city plus alienating the fanbase while trying to push for more investors and STH is just pi88ing up a rope.
Your trying to grow the game and fanbase?...Then re-sign key players and make the playoffs or eventually the fans will spend there $ on the WINNING college BB here more than hockey and you'll be back to square 1 again...Bottom line Canes FO you will have to spend A amount of $money$ to get B amount of results (playoffs) period that's just the way it works!
I'm not really here to bang on the FO ,but this team needs to make a playoff run THIS season ,because now you have a Stanley cup winning organizaton and the fans here in this area are used to winning...Look UNC/dook have 10 championships between them them and now the Cane's have to live up to that benchmark or pay at the box office it's that simple. The FO can try to save money ,but they have only 1 choice and that's to put a winner on the ice and the quicker the realize this the better off they will be ,and that's the way it is....remember the team needs the fanbase not the other way around and all the excuse's in the world won't work....spend a little more = win a little more
The Juice
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:22 — esteban1949needs to be resigned ...I love rosie and his sweater was the first canes sweater i ever bought for the Canes...but he is " expendable" more so that the Juice is...and i also think that Stillman did what he could for the Canes...but not really worth to resign him...I'd rather have a dalpe or even Bowman than stillman...not cutting the mans past efforts off...but if the canes are going to rebuild...then surround the core with some of the younger players as I am positive Jussi would be happy to show and lead the younger players ...but i'm a fan...what do i know ?
If It Ain't Hockey,It Ain't Nothing!!
I find it baffling...
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:39 — louis12580that the team would rather sign Chad than Jussi. I know that the team operates on a budget, but Chad is worth no more than $750K per year. He is a 4th liner, with spot duty on the 3rd if needed. Penalty kill, provide a spark if needed. That's it. Jussi on the other hand is perhaps the teams most responsible player in all ends of the ice (Sutter gives him a run for his money, but Jussi is better on the power play), yet is deemed to be "too expensive" by the team. Jussi's type is harder to replace than Chad's type. Maybe this is all a ploy on managements part and soon we'll hear that they've signed Jussi to a new deal.
Jokinen and LaRose
Tue, 05/24/2011 - 15:52 — abramsdougI waited to post my reaction until I saw if others had the same reaction to making LaRose a priority, but not Jokinen. Jokinen has shown time and time again that he is a game changer in big games. LaRose is not. I would pay Jokinen a three year contact of $2.5 million, $2.75 million, and $3 million. I believe Jokinen could negotiate a three year $3 million contract elsewhere.
Jokinen needs a specific kind of team to play his best hockey. The Hurricanes organization and team fits his personality and skill set. I disagree with paying LaRose over $1 million a year. He is fine on the fourth line; but so are Tlusty, Dwyer, Samson, among others. LaRose and Dwyer fit the same role on the team in terms of on ice play. Dwyer is less likely to take a bad penalty of miss a key open net shot than LaRose; while LaRose seems to be that kind of player who chirps and motivates the team. I'd spend the money that Jim Rutherford has allocated to re-sign LaRose; and I'd the money I saved to re-sign Jokinen.
I look at players in terms of whether they are the type of player who seems to make the key play or the key blunder at crucial times. In my mind Jokinen joins Ward, Staal, Skinner, Ruutu, Sutter, Cole (this season) and McBain as players who seem to find a way to win games. I think it is much easier to replace players who are not gifted in clutch situations than to replace highly skilled players who save their best for crucial moments in games.
Jokinen
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:52 — smhockeyKeeping Larose and letting Jokinen go makes no sense. One is a finisher, play maker, and good face off guy -- one is not. I wonder to what degree JR's comments are a part of negotiation positioning?
I'm baffled at keeping Larose for anything other than 4th line at a low price. If this team won't play and practice hard w/o Chads' chatter & hustle then their problems run very deep. At times he appears annoying.
Keeping Stillman is good if the price is right and there is budget after more important signings. But, I'm much more concerned about "D". They are missing an important piece or two -- especially if they lose Pitkanen. Joni has terrific talent - albeit with too much run and gun instinct, (coaching?).
How did Erik Cole become a
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:49 — imayagainknowantonHow did Erik Cole become a priority, yet Jussi Jokinen is un-signable at $3M? Unless Cole is willing to sign for significantly less, this makes no sesne. Jokinen is five years younger, much more durable, has a history of good production on the powerplay (unlike Cole) and can play center and win-faceoofs (unlike Cole). Rutherford mentioned at the beginning of the season that Cole had a history of playing well in contract years, yet apparently this is lost on him now. We had a perfect storm last season of Cole being healthy and in a contract year. The chances of both things happening next season are zero.
We all know what this is. Rutherford's obsession with character players and fan favorites over skill and talent. You could see it coming a mile away that we were going to re-sign Cole, Stillman and LaRose.
We are going to blow a ton of money this offseason signing two third liners (which is probably a generous description of LaRose) and two injury prone second liners. Is there really a need to sign Brandon Sutter for seven years? He's coming off a 29 point season and isn't even arbitration eligible. Oh, I forgot, "good in the locker room" is the biggest asset to Jim Rutherford.
What a joke. We are going to let a top four defensemen and a top six forward in the prime of their careers walk, while signing a player at the end of his career, a soon-to-be 33-year old and Chad friggin' LaRose.
Just a complete misuse of funds. I don't want to hear about how Jim Rutherford is hampered by his budget when he acquired Bryan Allen's $3M/yr contract at the trade deadline and views players like Cole and LaRose as priorities.
That last sentence...
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:30 — robotron2084was an incredibly fair statement and things the fans should be questioning.
That said, I don't see any real connection between Jokinen and Larose. They are in very different roles and very different pay scales. Paying LaRose $1 million (and he shouldn't get more than that IMO) to play on the 4th line should have ZERO bearing on the team's ability to pursue Jokinen. Cole however, is another matter. I agree Jokinen is a better overall talent, and Cole is a risky signing given his performance and injury history, but both provide a vital role. We are already a power forward short by most people's account, so losing Cole only moves that number in the wrong direction. As for Stillman, I think JR's been pretty clear. He's the backup plan if he can't sign Jokinen. Both will not be here, so again, Stillman's potential salary has no bearing on Jokinen. In fact, if JR is contemplating giving Stillman $2.5 million (which I seriously doubt - that's way to high for him at this point), then bumping that another $500K to get Jokinen instead should be a no-brainer. The problem is that I'm sure Jussi is testing the market, so for now, JR has to sit and wait until Jussi sees what his real value is around the league.
expensive
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 08:55 — Canarse$3M+ for Jokinen is a lot of dough. Especially when you consider the Canes want to resign Cole, who will likely go for $4M+, and Sutter who is due a raise and may approach $2M. I think it comes down to Cole or Jokinen for the Canes. I would rather sign Jokinen since I believe he his much more likely to continue to produce at the level the Canes expect, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. What they do with LaRose and Stillman doesn't seem to be related to the Jokinen situation IMO.
And what would it take to replace him?
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 08:36 — AllenHJussi is arguably the most versatile player on the team and one of the most productive. I'd like to think he'd sign for $2.5 Mil but all things considered $3 Mil isn't out of reason. There isn't anyone in Charlotte who is ready to step into that spot and produce what Jokinen does.
I wouldn't mind keeping Stillman and LaRose but not at the expense of JJ. And neither Boychuk nor Dalpe are quite there yet. Bowman is nowhere near ready to produce on that level. Sign a free-agent forward? Why? When we have a known quantity and quality in Jokinen.
To quote Teddy KGB from the
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 08:34 — RonMexicoTo quote Teddy KGB from the movie Rounders, "Pay that man his money." Unfortunately it appears JR wants to use the money that could pay for a versatile forward in his prime on a slow 38 year old and fourth liner who likes to "chatter." As I said last week after JR's press conference, if only Jussi chattered more and scored less he might be looked upon as invaluably as LaRose is in JR's eyes. Of course the other topic related to this that falls in the "I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'" category is why does it seem like this franchise will go the extra mile in signing North American players but not always for European players?
I think JR is right about
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 06:58 — ctillI think JR is right about the $3 million fair market value, and I suspect he won't/can't pay that much. Given that JR is intent on signing LaRose, he is probably willing to offer no more than $2.5 on a two or three year-deal. Will Jokinen take it? Hard to say. JR's fallback is to sign Stillman who will almost certainly accept $2.5 or less. Stillman and Jokinen are not interchangeable, but JR appears to thnk that Stillman could add value and fill a gap in the top six while another player matures in Charlotte.