A Q&A with UNC's Bowles

In today’s News & Observer, we have a long story about Erskine Bowles and how busy he is.

Okay, that’s simplifying things a bit.

Bowles, 63, is president of the UNC system, a far-flung empire stretching from North Carolina’s mountains to the coast. He oversees 17 campuses, a $2 billion budget and the educations of more than 215,000 students.

But in his spare time, this former White House chief of staff is one of 12 corporate titans charged with overseeing General Motors. He’s also one of 12 members of the board of directors in charge of Morgan Stanley, the financial services giant.
And he’s one of nine members of the board charged with oversight of Cousins Properties, a real estate investment firm.

That’s an automotive company, a bank and a real estate firm — three of the industries primarily involved in the nation’s ongoing economic struggles.

So that got us to wondering about how Bowles manages all these responsibilities, and whether his corporate involvements infringe upon the time he spends managing the UNC system.

As part of our reporting, Jonathan B. Cox sat down with Bowles and talked at length about these issues.  Bowles related some interesting tidbits, including the possibility that, a year or two from now, UNC leaders may be looking for his successor.

Here are excerpts from that interview.

How are you able to juggle everything?

I’ve spent my whole life having a lot of balls in the air. And devoting the right amount of time to them so that we could make progress on them. In this case, I get, personally, a lot of benefit by being around a lot of business people and understanding what’s going  on in the world at large. It helped me see the problems the state was going to face, I think, before most people so we could take the actions necessary to cut our expenses and to be ready for this enormous change we’re going through.

I’m a worker. I had a Morgan Stanley board meeting this week. So what did I do? I got up around 5:30 Saturday morning, i took my board book and I worked from 6 to 10. I gave it four hours. And I worked with the board book from 6 to 8 on Sunday morning. So it really didn’t eat into much of my family time, which was important to me.

My family’s not in Chapel Hill so i work every night. ... I work til 9, 9:30, 10 o’clock every night because I don’t have anything else to do. ... I worked ‘til the moment I walked into that board meeting in New York. It started at 5 o’clock [Monday]. I had a chancellors meeting Monday morning from 8 til, you know, 11:30 or so. I had a couple other things I did after that. I had a whole pile of stuff like I do today to read and to work through and to make decisions on, which I did on the plane. I answered every email I got. If you send me an email today, you’ll get an email today, not tomorrow.

I have a significant capacity to work. And I work nights and weekends, and not because its drudgery and not because I believe you judge productivity by the number of hours that you work, but I like to work. That’s what I like to do. So It’s not hard.

I picked the firms I served on. North Carolina Mutual was a joy, and I thought it needed some help. I was honored when they asked me to join. Morgan Stanley is where I started my career, and I’m interested in finance and I think, to me, what goes on in the financial world has a direct bearing on the university, especially a North Carolina university because we have such a financial center here.

I went on the General Motors board because it faces every problem in spades that an American company can face today, and I think i’ve added some real value there. And Cousins, I went on because Tom Bell, who was a partner of mine at Forstmann, Little [and Company, a private equity firm] became the CEO and I was interested in real estate and he asked me if I would serve on the board.

So I really gain a lot. It gives me a lot of windows on the world. I think it makes me do a better job and it energizes me. And I don’t have the time problem that people think I have. I can tell you when I leave the office, the people in the office are glad. They say they can get something done.
I have left the N.C. Mutual Board.

I haven’t quite decided about General Motors. They’ve asked me to stay.  I had every intent of not standing for reelection, but I’ve got to kind of think about it. I don’t like leaving a sinking ship, you know. I really don’t. I think if General Motors goes through a reorganization either in or out of bankruptcy that drastically reduces the number of brands, reduces the number of dealers, turns the balance sheet right side up from upside down and gets the wage rates competitive ... it can be a very viable company and good for America. I think most people would say I’ve added some value since I’ve been there.

Who asked you to stay on at GM?

 The new chairman of the board, Kent Kresa who used to be the head of Northrop Grumman [a defense contractor]. I’m going to stay on the Morgan Stanley board, and I’ll stay on the Cousins board.

The Council for Institutional Advisors, which represents pension funds with more than $3 trillion in assets, has a guideline that says a currently-serving CEO shouldn’t serve on more than one other board. In your position, you’re essentially a CEO. What do you think of that guideline?

I don’t fault them for that opinion, I really don’t. I feel like if you ask our directors, who is our board of governors, if I’m productive, if I work hard enough, if I’m effective — if you ask the chancellors if I’m accessible every minute as soon as they call ... if you ask the legislators, people of any political persuasion, I think they’d say we’re doing a good job. I think i can balance these balls. And if I didn’t, I’d be the first to say ‘uncle.’

When I was White House Chief of Staff, you’d have the foreign policy team come in, you’d have the economic policy team in, then you’d have the domestic policy team come in, then you’d have the White House staff come in, then you’d meet with the president and then you’d update him on what’s going on and by then it’s about 8:30 [a.m].

And then you’d deal with things like Bosnia and Northern Ireland and the Middle East and the budget and healthcare and taxation and then you’d have lunch.
I’m used to juggling a lot of balls, so to me it’s not been a difficult transition. I don’t feel pushed.

 Is UNC your priority?

It’s not only my priority, it’s my love. I love the University of North Carolina. I love North Carolina. I’m blessed to have this job. I really mean it. I’m not just saying it. I really feel it. It has my full attention and if anybody who’s knowledgeable thinks I’m not up to the job, I’m the first to leave. I’m not in this for my ego. I’m in here to do something that makes a real difference. To me this is public service.

Well, what is a normal day for you?

I try not to get into the office before 8. I do a lot of stuff before that at the house. ... I don’t think I’ve eaten out for lunch more than, I bet, 10 times since I’ve been there. I work through till 9:30 [p.m.]. I have a Chick-Fil-A salad for dinner and that’s really it. It’s not glamorous. I stay in that great big house by myself. It’s a beautiful, wonderful place. But It’s also like living in a museum. And for me it’s not my home.

My home is in Charlotte. I’m here through Friday and if possible, if I don’t have a university event like I do three out of the next four weekends, then I go home to Charlotte. And I stay home with my wife [Crandall Bowles] and my five grandkids. It’s nice. We’re lucky. We’re kind of isolated where we live so I really do get to spend time with them. And all my grandkids come out every weekend, and it’s really great for me. Since my wife works full time, she doesn’t mind me working all the time. She understands. It really works for our family.

 Can you keep up this pace forever?

I’m not going to do this job forever. I’ve got a plan that we’re working on. There are things that we’re trying to accomplish. Historically, the president of the university has left at 65; I think that’s probably a good idea. Like I told somebody earlier today, they’ll be ready to get rid of me. I am a change agent. I’m a pusher. I’m a driver. And you can only take so much of that. Really, they’ll need a kinder, softer person. I would imagine I’ll be there another year and a half or so.

I don’t know what I’ll do next. I’m not going to retire at 65. But I’m not driven by money. I’ve lived my life out of my comfort zone, and when you do that you have some failures, like I’ve had. And I’ve had lots of failures. I was stupid enough to run for the [U.S.] Senate and I was, I was a terrible politician. But I really felt I could make a difference in that job.

And you have some successes. When you take a job like this coming from the background that I have, which is not the natural background, you don’t know if you’re going to succeed at it. But I did think having run something big, and having run something big in a public environment, and having dealt with press and dealt with a legislative body and having spent my life balancing a lot of balls and also my experience in the campaign where I got to really know the people of North Carolina. It’s amazing.

Because I had parents with good values I was able to get it right on things, like everybody ought to be able to have health insurance. And because I got a good education, I could memorize all the facts and spit it out to you why it made sense. But until  you get a chance to live with people who don’t have healthcare as you do in a campaign where you’re going to every county in North Carolina over and over and over again and see it, you go from getting it in your head to in your gut.

And once its there you can’t shake it loose. And that helps me get it right, I think, on things like tuition and the importance of keeping tuition low and accessible. And I’m not sure I would have gotten it right if I hadn’t gone through that failure of a campaign and that experience because I learned a lot about North Carolina and about the state and about the people. I don’t ever want to do it again.

I assume that when I leave this job, which I have loved and do love and continue to do as good as I can, I’ll find something else to do. But it won’t be for money.