N.C. State has been out-scored 38-0 by FBS opponents in three games this season in the first quarter.
Wolfpack coach Tom O'Brien said starting better has been a point of emphasis in practice this week as the team prepares for Central Michigan.
"We're working really hard mentally with this football team," O'Brien said Wednesday on the weekly conference teleconference.
O'Brien attributed the slow starts to State's injuries and the strength of the other teams. Georgia Tech ranks second nationally in scoring offense (51.6 points per game) and Cincinnati ranks ninth (45). Wake Forest is further down the national leaders at 34.5 points per game but ranks fourth in the ACC.
"Part of it had to do with the opponent, part of it had to do with our physical condition," O'Brien said. "The last two weeks, we were so beat up and we ran into two football teams that average 50 points a game."
State has four defensive linemen and a starting linebacker out with injuries.
Comments
tob ooc schedule
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:56 — SurferI think ole TOB was looking at the soft, early schedule this year to build a cushion before they started playing the tough teams (GT excluded, of course). Now with injuries hurting primarily his defense, he is not exactly where he thought he would be (2-3). But hang in there state fans, he can still probably get to 6-6 or 7-5. If not, just give him time (another 3 to 5 years) and he is bound to bring in more of the higher star players. Which, actually doesn'e he already have a few? Crisp, et. al.?
Who knows what will happen next
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:35 — JPDOhioLike many of the posters on this thread, I too am getting tired of the excuses. But unlike some others, I haven't given up on this team and will see how the rest of the season plays out.
Supposedly, quite a few of the walking wounded are supposed to be back after the bye week. No more excuses. Time to deliver. If not, the howling will get worse, and rightfully so.
Please see below
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 01:00 — ncsfeddieJPD I hear you but please refer to my post below. I too am looking forward to having these guys back but it doesn't change the fact that TOB is not doing what is necessary to fix the injury problem for good. He still does not appear to be attracting elite talent in his recruiting classes. For his strategy of only recruiting the 2 and 3 star guys to work he can't ever have any injuries. In the game of football that is a foolish gamble to bet your success on. I hope we manage to win some more games this year but until he figures out how to recruit real talent we will end up right back here the next time someone gets hurt.
Two things
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 17:21 — JPDOhio1. Recruiting-- It seems like TOB is trying to apply the approach that worked for him at BC and it obviously is not working in Raleigh. Not sure why, although it may have something to do with competing in the Big East in cold weather for half of the season vs. facing Southern teams built for better weather. The realities of the weather conditions you will face determines the type of team you develop. Big difference between Boston and Raleigh in mid-November.
Although your point on recruiting more elite athletes has merit, it doesn't seem like he gets much out of the few 4-5 star recruits he does get. Glennon wasn't able to beat out Russell, who came in as a 2-star I think. Sure, RW turned out to be great, but Mike was a 4 or 5 star coming in. And Crisp, who everyone salivated over, should be starting by now. I hate to be negative, but its hard to ignore stuff that is staring you in the face.
2. Injuries--The injuries are more than just bad luck. There are so many every year that it points to a systemic problem. I am not sure what that is, but the Strength and Conditioning Coach must be fired. There are things that can be done, both from a physical and mental standpoint, to reduce the susceptibility to injury. That is the S and C coach's job. He is failing at it.
I also wonder about the slow starts and lack of intensity that plagues this team. When you are sharp and focused, it is easier to avoid situations where you could get hurt. The opposite applies when you are not quite into it or are confused and uncertain. Whatever the reason, something about their preparation has to change.
two things
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:51 — gvillegatrGa Tech is actually way better than anyone thought they would be. Fat Johnson is one sneaky guy.
Crisp was a coux (msp?), but he can't crack the starting lineup.
Exactly
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 01:14 — ncsfeddieYou guys are spot on with the comments about the injury excuses. The single biggest reason for the team's poor performance this year is TOB's unwillingness or inability to recruit top talent. Look at the commitment list for this year, it is filled with guys whose only other offers were from schools like Elon and Delaware State. Apparently TOB's strategy is to forget about the 4 and 5 star guys and focus on coaching up the 2 and 3 star guys. The only problem with that plan is that it does not allow for ANY injuries. One of the big differences between a 4/5 star guy and a 2/3 star is his readiness to contribute right away. Elite players can come in and contribute immediately. When elite teams loose starters to injuries they have 4/5 star freshmen backing them up. They may not be as good as the upperclassmen starters but they are close. They can still keep the team competitive. TOB's 2/3 star guys were basically average high school players. They usually require 3, 4 or 5 years before they are productive D1 players. The big problem here is that when you lose a starter, which is not uncommon in football, you have to rely on below average talent that simply is not capable of competing at the D1 level. The fact is that as long as TOB continues to exclusively recruit below average talent, he will never have the depth to win consistently.
yes sir ... someone who gets it from WR.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:48 — gvillegatrWish I had read your post before I basically rewrote it to mad max. It would have been easier for me to simply refer him to this post.
One more thing...
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 21:25 — smithfieldsamIs this the 5th rebuilding year for TOB. Please take your show to another program...
Wow
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 00:14 — mad_maxLast year was a rebuilding year?
Yes
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:29 — smithfieldsamYes, last year was a rebuilding year, but TOB built the house with straw or sticks and not brick. After four seasons, he should have had his house in order and not subject us to more and more disappointment. He makes the big bucks and we pay them. He needs to be held accountable for the misery and the lack of players and the lack of imagination on the field.
Really?!?
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 22:07 — mad_max9-4 with big senior leaders at WR, LB, QB (well, he wasn't a senior, but he walked on senior day), etc.?
Then I guess you expect the norm to be 10+ wins every season?
Your defense of TOB is
Sat, 10/08/2011 - 10:44 — unc098Your defense of TOB is admirable, but you just can't get around the fact that TOB let go of a Heisman candidate at QB. All this business about Glennon needing to get his playing time just doesn't add up. I realize that the style of the two QBs is vastly different, but if TOB had stuck with Wilson this year we wouldn't be having this discussion. A second winning year and contention for the ACC title would have boosted recruiting and allowed TOB to get some traction going forward. Now, it will take a miracle for him to survive after this season.
Defending the indefensible
Sat, 10/08/2011 - 12:00 — JPDOhioIt's hard to justify letting a talent like Wilson walk, but I think the timing and circumstances justified it. RW wouldn't commit to coming back for sure, still hanging on to his baseball fantasy. Even though it was very likely that RW would come back (because he was a bust in his time in the minors), TOB was in a tough position. If he held the door open for Russell to return, Glennon may have transferred. Then, if Russell stuck to baseball, TOB has no QB with any experience. So, he decided on Glennon for two years, instead of RW for one.
So where are we now? RW is a Heisman Trophy candidate at Wisconsin. No chance of that with State. His stats would likely be worse, as he would take risks to try to overcome the Pack's defensive deficiencies. He doesn't have to do that with the Badgers. His decision to go with Wisconsin could lead to a season that convinces at least a few scouts that he could succeed in the NFL, which I think is what he really wants. TOB may not have intended to, but he did Russell a favor by pushing him away.
As far a Glennon is concerned, he has done fine. He has some growing to do, but he certainly isn't the problem with this team. I doubt that State's record would be any different with Russell running the show. My opinion could change at the end of the season. The Pack is supposed to get many of its injured players back after the bye, so the lame excuse of injuries will go away. If the Pack continues to struggle, there will be no excuse and TOB's job could truly be in trouble. I wouldn't count the guy out just yet though.
Sorry, the article is in the
Mon, 10/10/2011 - 14:23 — unc098Sorry, the article is in the Atlantic Monthly
truth to all that, but I
Sun, 10/09/2011 - 18:09 — unc098truth to all that, but I still believe the Pack would have been better off with Wilson. I understand your point about Glennon walking, but he hadn't done it up to this point and I doubt he would have. Dicey indeed. I also agree with your assessment about the S&C coaching. The injury bug seems to be a annual problem. Of course last year the Heels lost practically all there running backs.
BWT...A great article in The Nation about the NCAA and the crises in College Football. Not generally my read but the author makes some good points.
Absolutely
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 01:20 — ncsfeddieWhy not expect to win 10+ every year? One of the fundamental laws of human nature is that people tend to live up to what is expected of them. This is true for your kids in school, your employees at work or your football program. I for one did not celebrate the nine win season last year. I don't care what the preseason prediction was, I felt we left way too much on the table. I realize State is not on the same level as the college football elite like Alabama or LSU, but that doesn't mean you lower your expectations. Those types of schools are good because they expect excellence and hold the program accountable. If you only expect to win 7 or 8 games and celebrate when you get to 9, then that's all you'll ever be. Just remember that nine wins will get you fired at elite programs. If State ever wants to turn the corner and become a real football power they are going to have to set the expectation high and not settle for less. That means a nine win year should be the bare minimum, not cause for a parade.
Delusional
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 17:23 — mad_maxYou are being foolishly delusional.
1) Why not expect 10+ wins every year? Because we aren't there yet! You have to learn how to walk before you can run. If everyone "strived for excellence" like you claim they should, then 85% of the teams in football would fire their coach every year.
2) Fundamental law of nature? Hah, what a joke. Last year State lived up to better than what was expected of them. This year, less. I don't buy that hippie psychology crap. With the recruiting class that Lowe brought in to the bball program last year, we were expected to get to the dance (or at least have a chance). How did your fundamental law of nature work out there? According to you, if we all expect our team to go undefeated, then they will be sure to live up to that expectation.
3) Why are schools like LSU and Alabama better than us? Simply because they expect to be? No! They generally have WAY more resources and a history of being excellent.
4) "If you only expect to win 7 or 8 games and celebrate when you get to 9, then that's all you'll ever be." - you are so far removed from reality, it's painful to read your post. Here's how it works, since you obviously are having trouble: You start out expecting 7-8 wins. Once you get there, then you start expecting more and more. Expectations don't remain the same forever.
Look, if you want to act like a fool and say that last year's season was a failure, then go right ahead. But don't try to convince me that Pack fans should be unhappy about tying the 2nd highest win total in school history. Sure, we left some on the table...but we also had some very fortunate bounces go our way throughout the season. That's how the game works; you win some, you lose some. Rome wasn't built in a day, my friend.
Oh, and I guess Duke should have fired Cutcliffe after his first season, and each coach every season onward until someone came in and won 10+ games. Duke has only sucked because they set their expectations too low. Great logic there. Everybody can't win 10 games every year...somebody has to lose.
Here's one more example for ya...Harrison Barnes was named pre-season all american last year. I guess since he wasn't on that list at the end of the year, he failed and should be cut from the team.
Keep Drinking the Kool-Aid
Sat, 10/08/2011 - 01:53 — ncsfeddieI'll break it down for you and try not to use too many complicated "hippie" words so I don't confuse you.
1. You're right, we're not there yet. But tell me, are we any closer today than we were when TOB was hired? He's well on his way to his 4th losing season in 5 years. I contend that the reason State can't win consistently is because they don't have enough elite talent, which is a coaching problem. TOB has recruited average talent so far and is at it again this year. His recruiting strategy hasn't produced consistent results thus far, so what makes you think it will suddenly start working now? Also I don't advocate 85% of schools firing their head coaches, but he is in his fifth year and his only flirtation with success has been because of two Amato recruits, Wilson and Irving. Again, what evidence do you have that we are evening learning to walk let alone run?
2. Maybe no one has ever expected anything of you, or maybe you just don't understand what expectation really means. A key requirement of any expectation is the promise of accountability. That means being held responsible for your results. Simply stating that a certain outcome is expected does not create expectation. People will tend to live up to expectations if they know they will be held accountable if they do not. I'm glad you brought up Sidney Lowe. His expectation was to make the tournament or at least show improvement with better talent. When he did not, he was held accountable and let go. If AD Yow had simply said "oh well, better luck next year" then there never really was any expectation. Obviously accountability doesn't gaurantee success, as in Lowe's case, but you can bet your bottom dollar the next coach will take the expectations seriously. Also, expectations must be reasonable to be effective. Undefeated is a stretch for any team, but it is perfectly reasonable to expect to see improvement year to year and not just one good year led by the former coach's recruits.
3. Yes Alabama and LSU have more resources and tradition, but what about teams like Boise State, Utah, and TCU? How are they able to win? They don't have the resources or the AQ conference affiliation that State has, but all three have managed to win BCS games in the last decade. I wonder if it's because they have more money or because they hired good people, set high expectations and refused to settle for excuses... I guess we'll never know.
4. Again, I'm not sure you understand the concept of expectations. Perhaps you should focus less on specific win totals, and more on the overall concept here. You should always expect excellence, end of story. That may mean getting to five or six wins following a 2 win season. It may mean getting to 10 or 11 wins after an 8 win season. It could mean landing a better recruiting class than you did a year ago. However you chose to define it I'm sure it does not include consistently finishing in the bottom half of the conference in recruiting and being wildly inconsistent on the field.
I never said last year was a failure or that fans should be unhappy. I simply said that if we want to turn the corner as a program we should look at 9 wins as a requirement and not a Super Bowl victory. It means we should accept that as the new standard and not tolerate falling back into mediocrity.
Bringing up Duke is a bad example all around, I don't even know where to start. As I mentioned before, expectations must be realistic to be effective and you must give the person the tools to meet those expectations. I've never heard Duke claim they expect 10+ wins a year, but even if they did that would be wildly unrealistic. They have higher academic standards which puts them at a recruiting disadvantage. Also, it's hard to sell a high expectation in football when you play in the nicest high school stadium in the state. Again, simply stating an expectation doesn't make it so. Duke is bad because they don't have the necessary commitment to football to have high expectations in the first place. I would never advocate firing ANY coach in that situation.
Your Harrison Barnes comment I don't think even deserves a response.
So lets summarize what we've learned. Basically, if you want to be great then you must always expect greatness. This doesn't mean expecting to be undefeated every year or even a specific win total. It means that when a coach is given all the tools to be successful then you hold him accountable for producing consistent, positive results instead of excuses. It means producing continuous improvement in all areas, not consistent mediocre results with an occasional breakout. I truly believe that if schools like Boise and TCU can do it then there is no excuse for State not being able to do the same thing. It simply requires high expectations, accountability and a commitment from everyone involved not to accept anything less.
Agree
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 07:39 — gvillegatr100%. I feel the same with UNC. How many games have they "left on the table" over the last three years ?
Heh
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 17:25 — mad_maxYou agree?
So, since UNC wants to have an elite football program, you're saying that they should have fired Butch years ago, because he was failing with measly 8 win seasons.
Look, the rah rah talk is fun and makes us all feel like anything is possible. But at some point, you have to come back to reality.
Not fired Butch
Sun, 10/09/2011 - 13:30 — gvillegatrShould have fired Shoop a long time ago.
O'Brien must go.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 20:07 — CaptCarlHow many years do we have to put up with "We have a lot of injuries". That's the biggest cop out ever. Every team has injuries. OB has been here too long without any substantial victories over decent teams!!
Sheridan. Amato, Holtz, all came in and we had good teams very quickly. This year the stubborn O'Brien let the best player in the country go to Wisconsin. Let's see...Oh they are 4-0 against good teams, and thy have had injuries also. But they are 4-0 and ranked #4.
If Debbie Yow doesn't fire him before the year is over, or next year we are in for more losing seasons!!!
WE MISS YOU RUSSELL WILSON!!!
4-0
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 22:07 — mad_maxWisconsin is 4-0 against good teams? That's news to me...
Injuries
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 17:30 — SCExpressWisconsin had several starters out with injuries against Nebraska.
Excuses, excuses
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 16:34 — smithfieldsamInjuries are a non-starter for me. Tom is always quick to point to that which shows a real weakness in his ability to recruit depth. With TOB, the Wolfpack is just one fractured bone or pulled muscle from a bad season. Or being so beat up from two earlier games that the team can't play hard in the next game. Get real, Tom. Being able to start quickly means having depth that pushes the starters to play harder earlier in the games and in the season. And, then, when a starter doesn't perform at a high standard, a sub will take his place and excel. Maybe there's no depth because of the inability to recruit it. It was easy for TOB at BC because BC was basically the best game in New England. TOB appears over his head in Raleigh.
Yea
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 22:38 — gvillegatrWe don't have all the Catholic Schools down here like they do in the NE. Big disadvantage for Toby.
The lack of depth on this football team has been a crux for him since he took th job. Matter of fact it has gotten worse. We've said as much before, but it fell on deaf ears as the pup fans didn't want to hear or accept it. It's not falling on deaf ears anymore.
Catholic Schools
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 17:25 — JPDOhioMaybe that's why TOB and his staff seem to be spending more time in Ohio and Pa. Lots of Catholic Schools up here and lots of great football talent coming out of them. Even after OSU, Michigan, Notre Dame and Penn State take the cream of the crop. Maybe TOB should leave NC to the others and focus his attention elsewhere.
Right
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 23:49 — mad_max"Pup" fans refused to acknowledge that their team had lacked depth over recent years. Then we lose 5 DLs to injury this year and gatr gets up on his soap box like he knows everything but nobody will listen to him.
Almost all Pack fans acknowledged that the team lacked depth the past few years. Personally, I thought we were starting to build a deeper team this year...and I still do. Problem is, we're missing 5 players at one position. Are we supposed to have 10-12 playable DLs every season for you to consider us having a little bit of depth?
Heh, you are so desperate for fans to think that you know everything, but your memory is often blurry and you like to take credit sometimes when it is not due.
whatev
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:46 — gvillegatrI expect nothing less to come out of your mouth or yar8's (you more than him although i'd have a beer with you long before I had one with yar8). You guys are as dillusional as it comes.
For five years now all we've heard from you guys is how Toby has his own reasons (and good ones) as to how he recruits "his" players. The problem with "his" way is he doesn't have the dominant athlete who can fill in right away if jr's/sr's go down. He's a lot like Jim Grobe except Jim Grobe has an ACC ring doing it "his" way.
If you re-read my last post you'll see I was not taking credit for it all by my lonesome. Just another brick you're laying on a foundation that was built a long time ago. Listen for a change instead of blindly following pack sports into the toilet year in and year out.
USC = ncsu
The Wolfpack is in the hall
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 16:22 — LibSlayerThe Wolfpack is in the hall of fame of slow starts.
First thought at title
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 15:52 — SurferOkay, just a real quick one here, "it seems like the wolfpack is doing just fine with slow starts"
Fish or cut bait, Tom...
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 15:05 — ProwlingWoofieFish or cut bait, Tom... Enough with the excuses !