The biggest question in North Carolina during preseason practice isn't who's going to catch the ball for the Tar Heels.
It's not whether Duke can reach a bowl game, or who is going to replace Nate Irving at N.C. State.
The most obvious question crystallized after the USA Today coaches' poll was released today. Locally, there is a lot of excitement about both North Carolina and N.C. State after both schools reached bowl games in the same season in 2008 for the first time since 2001.
There is a sense locally that both teams are on about the same level. Yet nationally, that's not the case.
North Carolina was ranked No. 20 by the coaches, receiving 293 votes. N.C. State wasn't even within sniffing distance of the top 25, as it received just seven votes.
The most interesting question of this preseason is, why is North Carolina so highly respected nationally compared to N.C. State?
If you look objectively at the teams' rosters, the talent level should be about even. The Tar Heels return nine starters on defense and have a lot of team speed. N.C. State has a strong defensive front but faces questions about who's going to replace Irving and who's going to start at two key positions in the secondary.
On offense, N.C. State looks stronger than North Carolina on the line, at running back, at quarterback with first-team All-ACC performer Russell Wilson returning, and especially at wide receiver.
With returner T.J. Graham and place-kicker Josh Czajkowski giving the Wolfpack two returning special teams standouts, an objective analysis probably has to give N.C. State a slight edge over North Carolina in terms of overall personnel.
So why is North Carolina so far ahead of N.C. State in the national spotlight?
One thought is that national analysts and poll voters are more likely to look at last year's record as a big indication of how this year's team will fare. They are likely to know that North Carolina was 8-5 last season and N.C. State was 6-7.
They are less likely to know that N.C. State crushed North Carolina 41-10 in Kenan Stadium, or that the Wolfpack could have finished with five straight wins because it was dominating the Papajohns.com Bowl against Rutgers before Wilson was
injured right before halftime.
Another thought is that although N.C. State's Tom O'Brien might be every bit as good a coach as Butch Davis, the Davis name coupled with that of North Carolina carries more
weight nationally. Davis is recognized as the guy who led glamour school Miami back to prominence after inheriting a probation-strapped program. He has been a head coach in the NFL and knows what it's like to win the Super Bowl after an assistant's role in the Dallas Cowboys dynasty.
And North Carolina's constant success in basketball might help
the Tar Heel program generate a bit more national name recognition than N.C. State gets.
Tom O'Brien has a strong coaching pedigree after reviving the Boston College program and training under longtime Virginia stalwart George Welsh. But O'Brien's resume isn't as glitzy as
that of Davis.
Whatever the case, the preseason hype about North
Carolina gives N.C. State and its fans plenty of motivation for this season. And as O'Brien likes to say, it doesn't take much to excite Wolfpack Nation.
Comments
What was that score
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 23:16 — HeHateMeTooWhat was that score again?
Somebody throw Yates a frisbee.
10 Again?
Tue, 08/11/2009 - 17:46 — bobmac41-10! Butch should have kept Gay. Maybe they will ring up 10 again if Nate is not back.
Proof Is In the Puddin'
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 18:45 — bobmac41-10 says it all!
UNC's record in 1988
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 10:41 — SGK1212UNC was 9 points away from a 12-1 record? UNC was 9 points away from a 6-7 record! (Miami and Notre Dame.) Furthermore, a fumble late in the game was NOT the deciding factor that kept them from beating West Virginia. WVU outperformed in almost EVERY category - check the stats!
Getting Close
Fri, 08/14/2009 - 08:59 — bobmacGetting close only counts in horseshoes & hand granades. If you want to throw horseshoes go back in history & read how close the '67 Pack came to being Nat'l Champs. By the way, Jim Donnan (offensive coordinator for Barry Switzer's Oklahoma wishbone, Head Coach for Nat'l Champ Marshall Univ., only Head Coach in Univ. of Ga. to win 4 consecutive bowls, & now ESPN broadcaster) was captain & QB along with nose guard & captain Chuck Amato. Joe Paterno remembers the '67 Pack!
I'm not surprised that UNC
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 10:11 — mad_maxI'm not surprised that UNC is getting more recognition than the wolfpack this pre-season. However, I don't think it has anything to do with national reputation or fan base, because people around the country know about State football now (thank you phillip rivers). There are two main reasons for this IMHO...UNC is stronger on defense, while State is stronger on offense. When it comes down to winning big games, I'm gonna side with strong defense more often than not. The other reason, is that UNC had more wins last year on the national scene (beating teams like rutgers and ND), while State's success mainly came locally and at the end of the season. That being said, we all know that pre-season polls stand for nothing at the end of the day. There are question marks on both teams, and we won't really know who the better team is until some games have been played. Heck, we might not even know until the final game of the season is played. Either way, I'm just hoping it's a good season for the acc and the local teams (well, i wouldn't be upset if UNC went 0-12 lol).
SIDs submit the votes ....
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 22:47 — sclarkSID's (or the like) are the incompetent ones submitting these ballots for their "too busy to bother" coaches.
- Ye Ol' Ball Coach
Recruiting?
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 22:16 — reznickRez_on_the_Hill:
Perhaps the analysts are focusing on Carolina's impressive recruiting class, which received national attention?
nothing new to me.
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 19:04 — aideannothing new to me. pre-season polls are meaningless anyways unless you are undefeated at the end of the season and not able to make it to the BCS Title because two other teams are also undefeated and they were ranked way higher than you from the beginning of the whole season (Ask Auburn about the 2004 season). Heck Clemson was ranked 9th preseason in 08 and we all know what happened to them.
It is the natural order of the Universe
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 20:03 — PlatowasrightAny sentient being will pick UNC over state college, anytime.
Hey look, Dana Plato is
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 23:13 — HeHateMeTooWatcha talkin 'bout Willis?
Hey look, Dana Plato is here... and I had thought she OD'd years ago.
Plato....
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 21:15 — JPDOhiois wrong.
While I agree little attention...
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 17:16 — UNC1998should be paid to any preseason poll. It begs the question....Why post is on the blog. The "media" is serving the "coaches" to the "fans" on a silver platter. My only concern as a fan at this point is Sep. 5. That's the date of UNC's first game.
Because.
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 21:17 — JPDOhioIt serves one purpose and one purpose only. To generate discussion and excitement. And it works!
Ken has it about right...
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 16:34 — HeHateMeTooKen has it about right... most coaches don't even vote themselves; they pass it off to a staff member.
Most voters probably just looked at last year's records (8-5 vs 6-7). Throw in Butch Davis with his reputation, and UNC being in the perceived weak ACC, and presto... UNC is ranked #20. Not much more analysis done beyond that.
Consider the source
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:47 — heelsno1All of this insight from the same writer who asserts that Special K's consecutive stint with the Olympics is not really a distraction from what should be his main concern, namely...the obvious decline of Duke's basketball program from national prominence.
But, I digress. As for the football comparison between NC State and UNC, here is how I see it. Until either program wins their respective division and at least competes for the ACC title (as Wake Forest, VT, BC, GT and FSU have done since 2005), then the rest is of minor importance.
we have a winner
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:51 — gvillegatrI find it hard to argue either paragraph but more specifically the last one considering it is todays topic.
UNC V NCSU
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:29 — sandhilsmarcYawn.
Who cares?
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:28 — dubiousThe last time I checked, UNC is 0-0. NC State is 0-0.
They're even.
See you Thanksgiving weekend.
Irrelevant Assessment
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:18 — GMoWhen have you ever seen two offenses on the field at the same time? To do a true assessment, you need to compare the two teams as they play on the field (offense vs. defense). With Irving's unfortunate injury, UNC's offense may be able to handle NCSU's D (even without proven receivers). UNC's D looks to be downright scary. Yes, NCSU's offense may be more proven than UNC's offense, but that is irrelevant because they'll be going against the Heels D. As an aside, Yates passing rating was a full 20 points higher than Wilson's. Not saying that he's better, but you have to consider the stats he was putting up before his injury. If the two remain healthy, it will be a fun game to watch and I'm looking forward to it.
I've seen Yates throw some
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 13:34 — mad_maxI've seen Yates throw some nice passes, and I understand a lot of folks have a lot of confidence in him, but I'm still not sold. Now, I know last year was a little weird because of his injury and he missed some games, but there is one stat that I just can't get over right now: career TD to INT ratio. He's got 25 TDs and 22 INTs (i think that's right). Obviously he's been improving, but how much? And will he be able to keep the ball in his own teams hands now that guys like Nicks and Tate are gone?
As for comparing offenses and defenses, your point makes sense...only one offense is on the field at a time. Don't be too quick in dismissing State's offense against UNC's defense though. State's secondary and UNC's recievers have question marks, so it's probably safest to call that a push right at the moment. UNC's defense is hyped up and expected to be very good (I think they will be), but State's offense has already proven that they are very good (I think a lot of people are overlooking the improvement of the o-line too). Anyways, it looks like it's going to be a very exciting year. Not only do the two teams look about evenly matched, but they are both good programs on the rise!
Just a comment on
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:14 — Steven252525Just a comment on recruiting. Why do people think UNC controls the state. NCSU's 2008 class was much better than UNC a that year we got the best in-state recruits.
It was a COACHES poll. Media
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:05 — tarheelskierIt was a COACHES poll. Media has nothing to do with it. State might want to try and have a winning season before they start WHINING about national recognition.
True enough
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:12 — ncdawg95It would be very helpful for the Pack to avoid the slow start of the last two seasons and come out of the gates swinging. I believe they have the personnel in place to do this. The Pack will have nothing to worry about with respect to the polls if they can beat South Carolina and Pitt in the early going. South Carolina might only be a middle of the road SEC team, but this is more a function of them being extremely unlucky. They are tough, physical, and well-coached. This is the kind of game where a Nate Irving is going to be really missed.
Go Pack!
Preseason rankings
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:55 — ncdawg95It is not particularly helpful to be ranked high in the preseason unless you are a national championship contender. More often than not, the young players start believing the hype and set themselves up for a tumble. It's preferable to have your players feel like they've been slighted and play with a chip on their shoulder.
I'm a pack fan (but SEC alum) and think they'll have a great year if they can sort themselves out at LB and the secondary. Coach Davis has had better recruiting classes, so the expectation is at some point that they'll actually play better. That remains to be seen. I believe that in the last two unc-ncsu match-ups, TOB could have beaten Davis even if they had switched teams. TOB is a fine coach who knows the X's and O's. If he can beat Davis again this year, he might turn the recruiting tide the pack's direction.
Superiority is *not* determined on the field in Chapel Hill.
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:54 — RonB*double post deleted by author, who only clicked Post Comment once*
Superiority is *not* determined on the field in Chapel Hill.
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:53 — RonBWe get it. We do.
UNC thinks they have a superior defense. They could give up 35 points to the Wolfpack this year and still be an improvement to last year's squad that gave up 47 points to the Wolfpack on their home field.
UNC's *two* great quaterbacks put on a clinic all season last year? Really? They *escaped* the Duke game more than they won it.
Hype is all UNC has going for it. No one asks them to put up or shut up any more because UNC can't. Who needs heart when you have a preseason ranking and a cupcake schedlue to prop up your house of cards?
Haha wow Ron, you sound
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 22:32 — Heels20Haha wow Ron, you sound like an intelligent man! First of all, we didn't give up 47 to State this year. Second of all, I don't even remember any one saying we had one "great" quarterback. We were happy to have Yates, who despite the TD:INT ratio his freshman year, showed some promise by how many yards he racked up.
Moving on, we didn't "escape" the Dook game by any means. If I remember correctly, we were the ones who had the 8 point lead late in the game.
Finally, you want to talk about the cupcakes on our schedule? You're playing an extremely mediocre South Carolina team (please stop calling them USC. They aren't USC, and they aren't Carolina). After that, you have BACK-TO-BACK games against Murray State and Gardner-Webb.
huh?
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:28 — gvillegatrwhere has anyone talked about UNC's *TWO* QB's last year?? do you just make things up out of thin air ...
Forget offense or defense...
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:44 — RonBThe only thing that matters for the media poll is that UNC has a journalism school. Period.
How does hovering around .500 in the ACC after years of sub-.500 seasons under Bunting, Torbush, etc. create any "national prominince"? It doesn't, but that doesn't stop the UNC faithful in the press box to hype them a year after losing to East Carolina and down early to Alcorn State in Kenan.
Who doesn't want to play ball for a program that does not have to be successful to get recognition? It is only because of those recruits that UNC isn't fighting Duke in the ACC cellar.
Let your ignorance shine on
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 22:27 — Heels20Funny how you stopped at Torbush. After all, we did drop 7 straight wins on you before he came around (techinically 6, Torbush got the 7th on his own).
"How does hovering around
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:56 — GoHeels1984"How does hovering around .500 in the ACC after years of sub-.500 seasons under Bunting, Torbush, etc. create any "national prominince"? "
Uh, if you recall, the entire ACC was hovering around .500 last season.... Moot point.
I would think being ranked
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:44 — asartainI would think being ranked lower in the pre season just fuels the fire and motivates your team more...
On the other hand...being ranked in the top twenty gives your rivals something to shoot for....and if I was an ECU fan, I'd be chomping at the bit......knowing that UNC starts off with two pansies in Citadel and UConn with will only improve their ranking...and will be looking ahead to a showdown with GA Tech......while ECU gets them after having some quality warm up games against App State and WVU.
That will be ECU's "super bowl"......and could turn into a Pirate surprise......AARRrrrrggghhhh
No surprise
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:54 — bradleyb123ECU will beat Carolina, and it will be no surprise.
I hope your team comes into
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 14:26 — Heels20I hope your team comes into the game as blind as you are. This isn't the 4-win team you barely beat two years ago.
I hardly doubt that UNC will
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:53 — GoHeels1984I hardly doubt that UNC will be overlooking ECU. If you recall, the purple pirates upset the Heels 2 years ago in a game that could have easily been won by the Heels. The Heels will be anxious to win that game and put it behind them...
All you people need to
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:41 — GoHeels1984All you people need to realize that the writer of this article is doing exactly what he wants you to do.... Read the article, the paper, the ads, make comments, etc. You took the bait just like I did.
Plain and simple.
UNC... better players, better coaches, facilities, schedule, better 2008 record, better showing in bowl game, better attendance in bowl game last year, better name recognition, better top new players, etc. etc. etc.
That is why they are ranked and the wuffies are not. The wuffies were 6-7 last year. Until the wuffies prove themselves, then they will not be ranked. UNC finished with an excellent showing in their bowl game and barring a late fumble, would have won their bowl game. However, a strong 8-5 season was a good one.
Go Heels!
By the way, Wuffie nation should be renamed "Wuffie Central North Carolina." That is the only area where wuffie fans exist. UNC fans are definitely Tar Nation!!!
Plain and simple. UNC...
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 16:39 — HeHateMeTooThat's funny. Thanks for sharing that well informed, cogent, objective analysis.
Heh, yeah. That one made
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 13:41 — mad_maxHeh, yeah. That one made me laugh a little too.
The reason the Heels are
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:35 — achillesheelThe reason the Heels are ranked so high, is that the writers know that Hansbrough has 4 years of eligibility left for FOOTBALL.
Ugh, I could've read through
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 13:43 — mad_maxUgh, I could've read through this post without seeing anything about Hansbrough and been perfectly happy. Thanks for ruining that.
As physical as his play was,
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 13:04 — GoHeels1984As physical as his play was, Hansbrough would probably make a great tight end. LOL
Ken
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 12:17 — gvillegatryou broke down the offense (b/tn the 2 teams) a hell of a lot better than you did the defense.
these teams aren't equal and ncsu certainly is not better at RB than UNC. heck, Baker cannot even stay on the field. ncsu doesn't even have a honorable mention at the WR spot in the ACC. These guys (state) are better at QB at this moment in the football season and this moment is the summer.
you totally skipped over talking about UNC's LB's and gave UNC no credit for their secondary. you just simply talked about ncsu'd defensive line (push to UNC's BTW) and Irving being out and replacing two DB's.
if we all just let the games play out, you should see ncsu get in the top 25. But this will all be moot if USC comes to C-F and wins the ball game ... which I do not think will happen.
I know you guys (you, jpg, robbi, even decock) had a good laugh before you put this one down on ACCNow.
this blog will go 3 pages guaranteed! on to the next post and the next post and the next post and the, well, you get the picture!
actually...
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 23:09 — izzykareemhe didn't have to talk about your secondary or LB's or Dline, he mentioned 41-10, a head to head game, with our unheralded WR's against your heralded secondary, and our no-name do-nothing running backs, going thru your front-seven AGAIN. So why would he need to mention your awesome defense that returns 9 starters who got their ass handed to them by the 2nd Qtr in a head to head game?
"41-10" is getting so
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 14:00 — mad_max"41-10" is getting so beaten into the ground at this point. But at the same time, you do make some valid points. It does seem like UNC's defense is being considered elite based on some assumptions. I know they've got talent and BMFD has a history of nasty defense, but I still think they need to show us something before they are thought to be so great. Idk though, it may just be a little different looking from the wolfpack's viewpoint. Remember last year when UNC was forcing turnovers all over the place? We kept hearing "you can't just wait for the other team to make mistakes, you have to force mistakes"....that story instantly got spun around after the game on november 22nd, much like the criticism of a fanbase booing their QB.
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Fri, 10/02/2009 - 08:54 — asixxssEmlak
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sohbet
lol
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 07:42 — gvillegatrfor the Love of God, come up with some new material and play better than .461 football this year. no one can win every game and yes sometimes teams even get blown out. move on.
UNC is the better football team this year.
Sorry to hear that you're insane and crazy Ken.
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 11:30 — PuddentainHeels20 is just upset that you said 41-10. But if the coaching and the talent at UNC are so obviously superior to NCSU, why did we have 41-10? and 31-27? Heels20, if you know the secret, you'd better share it with coach Davis.
I'm glad you're able to
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 22:21 — Heels20I'm glad you're able to judge a team's capability based off of their worst game of the season. If you think a 6-7 one-man team is better than a deeper 8-5 team that was 9 points away from a 12-1 record, then I think your bias speaks for itself.
UNC was 9 points away from a 12-1 record?
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 10:38 — SGK1212UNC was 9 points away from a 12-1 record? UNC was 9 points away from a 6-7 record! (Miami and Notre Dame.) Furthermore, a fumble late in the game did NOT keep them from beating West Virginia. WVU outperformed in almost EVERY category - check the stats!