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Who's the best in the state?
Which college football team will be the best in the state of North Carolina in 2009?
There are 57 reader comments on the "ECU sets challenge" post that hash, and rehash, that argument.
What will happen in '09? We don't know. What has happened from 2000 to '08? We do know. Those numbers say N.C. State has been the best team in the state of North Carolina ... so far.
State has won the most overall games (60), ACC games (32), bowl games (four) and has edged UNC and Wake Forest (5-4 against each) in their respective series. The Wolfpack has also had the most bowl appearances (six).
(Oh, I hear you, Yosef, App State's got three national titles but your boys are 1-2 against the ACC this decade with a 23-10 loss to N.C. State in '06, which was State's worst team of the decade).
Duke (surprise!) has the worst record of the five Bowl Subdivision programs in the state (and all of Division I-A for that matter) with a 14-90 mark. For the sake of meaningful comparison, Duke, has been taken out of the group-record discussion.
Some numbers, from the nine seasons starting in 2000 through 2008, to chew on:
| Overall | W-L |
Pct. |
| N.C. State | 60-51 | .541 |
| Wake | 56-53 | .532 |
| ECU | 50-60 | .455 |
| UNC | 45-63 | .417 |
Notes: State, Wake and ECU have each had four losing seasons this decade. UNC has had five.
| ACC |
W-L |
Pct. |
| N.C. State | 32-40 | .444 |
| Wake | 29-43 | .403 |
| UNC | 28-44 | .389 |
Notes: Wake Forest won the ACC Championship Game in '06. The ACC only recognizes the regular season (6-2) in their won-loss record. Duke is 4-68.
| Bowls |
W-L |
Pct. |
| Wake | 3-1 | .750 |
| N.C. State | 4-2 | .667 |
| UNC | 2-2 | .500 |
| ECU | 2-3 | .400 |
Notes: Wake Forest's only bowl loss was to Louisville in the '07 Orange Bowl — the only BCS bowl appearance of the group.
| Head-to-head | State |
UNC |
Wake |
ECU |
| N.C. State | — | 5-4 | 5-4 | 3-1 |
| UNC | 4-5 | — | 3-4 | 2-1 |
| Wake | 4-5 | 4-3 | — | 5-0 |
| ECU | 1-3 | 1-2 | 0-5 | — |
Notes: Of the current coaches, Tom O'Brien (State) is 5-1 against the group, Jim Grobe (Wake) is 13-6, Skip Holtz (ECU) is 2-3 and Butch Davis (UNC) is 0-4.
Staff photo by Ethan Hyman
J.P. Giglio
J.P. Giglio covers the ACC for the News & Observer, where he has worked since 1997.
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Shouldn't Butch Davis...
Mon, 07/20/2009 - 12:34 — willncsubeat at least one of the other coaches of Wake, NCSU or ECU to even be included in the conversation? They have only been slightly better than Duke for the last 10 years or so.
History lesson
Mon, 07/20/2009 - 13:37 — Heels20First of all, we beat Dook 9 out of the last 10. I think that counts for more than "slightly better." Secondly, Butch beat TOB pretty consistently in the Big East. I don't see how you find relevance in the head-to-head records of the coaches while they are both in the process of re-building programs. We've got both ECU and State this year. I see us beating ECU. The State game could go either way. 8-5>6-7. I'll accept that for now, and I believe we're moving in the right direction.
you tarheel fans...gotta
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 16:32 — mad_maxyou tarheel fans...gotta keep an eye on you guys! you make it so easy to hate you. it's cool though, because it makes it sooooo much better when you get shown up by a team that's not even in the same league as yours (according to so many of your fans).
how long until unc fans are
Sat, 07/18/2009 - 16:26 — mad_maxhow long until unc fans are ready for bball season to get here? 2, maybe 3 weeks into the season?
how many straight losing seasons
Sat, 07/18/2009 - 23:23 — Heels20until State fans stop considering themselves a football school?
we would have to start that
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 01:20 — mad_maxwe would have to start that in order to stop it. don't think i've ever seen anyone on here consider nc state a football school. however, every year i do see unc fans counting down the days till bball season after a loss or two. hard to argue with somebody as delusional as you though
delusional?
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 07:01 — gvillegatrare you serious! get a grip and look in the mirror.
you have the responses of an
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 16:47 — mad_maxyou have the responses of an 8 year old. what's next, i'm rubber you're glue...
delusional-g-alligator
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 09:18 — bluecatt1u tell them alligator, we think u are a closet duke fan anyway, u go to your room and sing the DUKE fight song untill u get it right, ok, go DUKE,!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not so fast.....
Fri, 07/17/2009 - 11:54 — deaclaw2Over the last 4 years, Wake Forest has lost only 1 game to its instate rivals (and that was to NC State in Raleigh in a close one). Includes ECU, UNC and all others.....jsut one loss in 4 years.....not very good jouranlism...LOL
Probably a Tar Heel!
Deaclaw...
Fri, 07/17/2009 - 22:07 — Heels20You just need to make sure Riley Skinner keeps football as his top priority over porno (just kidding). I have a lot of respect for Wake, but I also can't tell you the last time the Heels went head-to-head with you. I heard the two will meet in 2010, but I haven't looked it up. It is safe to say Jim Grobe is the 2nd best coach in the ACC (behind Frank Beamer). I look forward to the match-up, and hopefully we'll be disciplined enough to get the job done.
yahoo sports
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 22:00 — gvillegatrI was just at www.yahoosports.com and NCAA football 2010 advertisement asks, "who is the better team, UNC or ncsu."
of course I pick the UNC helmet and the results come right behind it ... UNC 54% ncsu 46%.
The country has spoken!
UNC is th better team.
The country has spoken?
Fri, 07/17/2009 - 11:29 — JPDOhioNot really.
Most statistically valid samples have a margin for error of at least 3 percent. This poll is not likely to have any statistical validity whatsoever, so the margin for error would be higher. Therefore, the result is at best a push.
More likely, the results show that UNC is more popular nationwide than State. That's not exactly breaking news!
Re: The country has spoken?
Fri, 07/17/2009 - 11:51 — Heels20Voluntary sampling is the most inaccurate type of sampling. However, keep in mind that it could have been 3 percent the other way (margin of error was probably greater).
That being said, most pre-season predictions have the Heels as the better team. I know pre-season predictions don't mean much, but I think we have the advantage. These next couple years should also prove whether or not O'Brien will ever be able to get over the 9-win hump.
pre-season predictions mean
Sat, 07/18/2009 - 16:25 — mad_maxpre-season predictions mean absolutely nothing when it comes to acc football. what was the story last year? oh yeah, unc was supposed to win their division behind pre-season all acc qb tj yates. what ended up happening? yeah. lol funny though that so many unc fans actually think they have the better team. and even more amusing is the fact that some people actually rely on a yahoosports.com fan poll. haha, it's gonna be great this year when the heels get stomped again. thank god for the "Butch Davis Era"
lol
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 06:55 — gvillegatrUNC was not the official pick to win the Coastal last season.
adn while I agree pre season rankings don't mean much, that weren't any Puppy fans saying it when JPG wrote his piece on ncsu winning the Atlantic this year just a few weeks ago!?
it slices both ways MM.
lol
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 06:55 — gvillegatrUNC was not the official pick to win the Coastal last season.
adn while I agree pre season rankings don't mean much, that weren't any Puppy fans saying it when JPG wrote his piece on ncsu winning the Atlantic this year just a few weeks ago!?
it slices both ways MM.
how many pre-season
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 16:25 — mad_maxhow many pre-season predictions are out there every year? way to take my comment out of context and spin it how you want it. did i say anything about the so-called "official" pre-season predictions last year? nope. i simply commented on how all i heard before last year's season was how unc was going to be competitive, and many of you on here proclaimed that they would be playing in the acc championship game. that is a fact, and we can go back to the archives if we need to.
as for jpg's post that you're talking about...i figured by leaving the topic blank, it would infer that i don't take it seriously. btw, you bring up jpg's predictions, proving my point that there are many preseason predictions that we see, and many of you said unc was gonna be in the champ game last year.
pre-season predictions
Sat, 07/18/2009 - 23:26 — Heels20last year had NC State finishing last in the Atlantic. They were accurate there. And, yeah, VT was picked to win the Coastal, not UNC. I'm sure this same kind of credible research in high school is what led you to receiving that letter from UNC admissions that said "DENIED."
that "credible" research and
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 16:29 — mad_maxthat "credible" research and analysis of a yahoosports poll by gvillegatr is why there are so many unc fans like him that are in gville for some reason...oh yeah, because they couldn't get into a real school.
yeah, tied for last, tied
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 16:19 — mad_maxyeah, tied for last, tied for third, or one game out of first...whichever way you wanna spin it to make yourself feel better about that game in late november. yeah, vt was picked by some people to win the division, but there were plenty of people on here that predicted unc to win, so it just depends on which preseason prediction you're talking about. and don't try to say there is one official prediction that matters, because this post started with a unc fan bringing up yahoosports.com! you just can't see past that baby blue can you? oh and btw, i never applied to unc. i figured i would rather go to nc state, be an engineer, and try to make a difference in the world, instead of going into politics at unc...i mean, as much as i look up to alumni like john edwards and mike nifong, it just wasn't for me.
About that...
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 16:52 — Heels20John Edwards graduated from State undergrad. Again, nice research. There is no "official" source for pre-season picks, but I don't know a single legitimate source (such as ESPN, rivals.com, Sports Illustrated, WRAL, N&O) that had Carolina winning the Coastal last year. I don't even know of one this year that has us at the top. The yahoosports.com! poll was just an example of how many people believe the Heels will have the better team this year. I have yet to see a pre-season poll that has State ranked above us. While that means nothing as of now, I think that our program is at a point where we are deep enough and talented enough to recover from significant injuries without losing the season. I can't say the same for NC State, as Wilson and Irving were the heart and soul of the team. One of them is already down (thoughts and prayers go out to he and his family, hopefully he'll make it back before the end of the year), and the other suffered three or four different injuries last year. I think that Mike Glennon is a very good quarterback, but there are absolutely no signs that he can survive as a pocket passer behind such a shaky offensive line. Because TOB takes the rivalry so seriously, I think State wins the game this year (barring any injuries). That being said, I think we will end up with the better record. Spin that however you want and take pride in being the "best program of the decade" in mediocre NC.
Agree
Thu, 07/16/2009 - 11:23 — SurferDitto here gville. They do, however have the "State Champion" tee shirts and the "Walk of Champions", but the 6-7 (*RW absent at times) is reality I guess. Remember 44-0.
Summer Break JPG
Tue, 07/14/2009 - 20:07 — aideanThis has to have been up for at least a week
Interesting timing
Tue, 07/14/2009 - 11:22 — SurferWhat is really unique about his story is the timing. Looking at the head to head records, the tiny window of opportunity to write this, with State coming out ahead of course, is now. I wonder how long JP has been waiting on this opportunity. Although in reality, surely sometime in the past, State had a winning record, over a several year period, against UNC, Wake, ECU and Duke. But I have yet to see a tee shirt that proclaims it.
geez
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 18:41 — gvillegatrI felt like I need to be paying someone for all this theatre!?
Best ACCNOW posting ever
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 20:30 — JPDOhioI don't think there has ever been more than 100 posts on this site. Even Herb's firing and Sid's hiring did less, although they were probably spread out over several articles. Anyway, JP hit paydirt on this one.
It's a good sign
Tue, 07/14/2009 - 00:07 — Heels20for football in the area. No one in the triangle wanted any part of this argument 2 and a half years ago.
JPG
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 18:05 — Heels20This one has about worn me out. What we got next?
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Thu, 07/16/2009 - 17:13 — bluecatt1u guys are no better than duke, i predict that duke will beat both unc and ncs. go duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not bad for the middle of summer
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 20:26 — JPDOhioSo much for the summer being a dead period on this blog. I wish the season started tomorrow.
Best program in the state is...
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:19 — willncsuNCSU by the numbers and head to head. Not like that is any kind of accomplishment. No one needs to be hyping their team until they do something actually impressive. Last I checked NCSU beat the rest of the teams in the state and only had a .500 conference record (1 game out of first however). How impressive. Sure, Wake won the ACC 2 years ago. It was also the worst year of ACC football I have ever seen and they still have a loosing record against state since 2000. ECU won their garbage conference last year. Good job! You still lost to a struggling NCSU team. App state is 1aa so who cares. UNC has been slightly better than Duke until last year. Seriously, its like arguing over which pig is the prettiest.
1aa who cares?
Tue, 07/14/2009 - 07:11 — BumpaWe care. You just would not believe how much more fun it is to win championships than it is to moan about the bad coach and the injured player and on and on and on. See we are proud of our team where you guys spend all your time telling the world how your team stinks.
So much more fun to be happy.
By the way our our confrence produced the highest drafted player in the NBA also.
You are not alone.
Tue, 07/14/2009 - 07:54 — JPDOhioThe atmosphere before, during and after Youngstown State football games is terrific, and we haven't been that good since the 90's. My guess it is even better in Boone on gamedays.
I do think that anyone believing that App State would consistently win in the ACC or any other BCS conference is mistaken, but that is not intended as a slap against App State or any other 1-AA program. Those programs have limits as compared to BCS programs that make it virtually impossible to be competitive week by week.
Interpretation
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 13:03 — SurferWhat those numbers say.... is that N.C. State has had a better record against UNC, Wake Forest and ECU from 2000 to 2008. Nothing more, nothing less. After a 6-7 record it is hard to imagine that they are the best team or the best program in the State, although, I am sure many do. Remember 44-0.
Faulty Logic
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 10:02 — heelsno1It is amazing to finally see an article written by JPG that does not contain a bunch of schmoozing for Duke. In fact, JPG actually dismisses the Blue Dabbles altogether for once.
NC State made a great hiring decision with O'Brien. He clearly is developing a strong program and a renewed, winning culture. I respect and admire his straightforward and "no-nonsense" demeanor. He reminds me somewhat of Dick Sheridan, another great head coach for NC State football. With that said, NC State does not yet deserve the honor of being recognized as the best football program in our state. They had a fabulous second half of the season last fall with dominant wins over both UNC and Wake Forest. This was the same team that was steam-rolled by South Carolina at the start of the season. Also, one must take into account the Wolfpack's overall recoard of "head-to-head" match-ups against UNC, Wake and ECU, and you will notice more defeats than victories since 2000.
Beyond question, the best football pragram in this state over the last 10 years is App State (multiple national championships coupled with the historic win at Michigan). Next, it has to be Wake Forest. The Deacs won the ACC title several years ago and played a competitive game in the Orange Bowl against an excellent Louisville team. Plus, both Wake and ECU are playing much tougher non-conference opponents than either UNC or NC State. Last year, Wake beat Ole Miss (a team that was a force in the SEC and later won the Cotten Bowl). This season, ECU will play Va Tech and WVU while UNC and State line up against The Citadel and Gardner-Webb.
Agreed. See, Wolfpackers
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 16:22 — tjfooseAgreed. See, Wolfpackers and 'Heels can agree.
Re: Wolfpack head to head matchups since 2000
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 10:52 — brianteerheelsno1 said: "one must take into account the Wolfpack's overall recoard of "head-to-head" match-ups against UNC, Wake and ECU, and you will notice more defeats than victories since 2000."
This is incorrect. Here are N.C. State's head to head records against teams in the state of North Carolina since 2000 (i.e., beginning with the 2000-01 season):
5-4 vs. UNC
5-4 vs. Wake
3-1 vs. ECU
5-0 vs. Duke
1-0 vs. App. St.
1-0 vs. WCU
Correction
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 13:31 — heelsno1And I thought this would be the year that I made zero mistakes!
Thanks for the correction. Even taking the correction into account (wins against Duke and WCU are not part of the analysis), I stand by my opinion that both App State and Wake Forest have produced more meaningful results than NC State, UNC or ECU in football since 2000. Further, State has as much business playing WCU or Gardner Webb as Carolina does scheduling Georgia Southern or The Citadel. In contrast, Wake opens with Baylor and next the Deacs play Stanford.
I generally agree with your
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 14:37 — brianteerI generally agree with your take on Wake. I'm not so sure about App. St., since comparing them to the ACC teams is comparing apples and oranges.
As for the OOC schedules, this year State is scheduled to play South Carolina, Murray State, Gardner Webb, and Pittsburgh. Last year's final Sagarin ratings rated them at #38, #214, #193, and #27, respectively.
Meanwhile, Wake is scheduled to play Baylor, Stanford, Elon, and Navy. Last year's final Sagarin ratings rated them at #66, #50, #111, and #51, respectively.
I don't see a big difference there, particularly when you take into account that Murray State is a replacement for ECU (Sagarin #54 last year), who asked out of the scheduled game against State this year. If not for that, State would have had arguably a tougher non-conference schedule.
All that depth, all that
Sun, 07/12/2009 - 23:01 — tjfooseAll that depth, all that coaching, yet...
UNC is one frisbee away from Mike Paulus, starting QB.
Guess what
Sun, 07/12/2009 - 23:39 — Heels20Mike Glennon is not the Second Coming. Glennon and Paulus were both 4-star recruits. Glennon has proven NOTHING. Give me a football and I can complete a pass to Jarvis Williams over Koyal George in practice.