UPDATED, 10:21 p.m.
The University of North Carolina's football program received the Notice of Allegations from the NCAA on Tuesday which detailed nine major violations, including a failure to adequately monitor the program.
The 42-page notice is the latest step in an investigation into impermissible benefits and academic misconduct which began a year ago and cost UNC 14 players for at least one game and seven for the entire 2010 football season.
UNC has 90 days to respond to the NCAA's notice. After the school's response, the NCAA's Committee on Infractions will rule on whether violations occurred and determine the penalties, with UNC asked to appear at the committee's Oct. 28 meeting in Indianapolis.
UNC has gone 50 years, spanning back to a point-shaving scandal with the men's basketball program in 1961, without incurring what the NCAA defines as a "major violation."
“I deeply regret that Carolina is in this position," UNC chancellor Holden Thorp said in a statement released by the school. "We made mistakes, and we have to face that."
The NCAA, or UNC, had ruled on 13 of the players before the release of Tuesday's notice, which the university redacted a large number of names, including all of the players involved.
The details of the allegations against former assistant coach John Blake and former university tutor Jennifer Wiley had not been disclosed. Nor had a violation for the "university's failure to adequately monitor the football program."
The failure to monitor allegation specifically mentions three components: 1) former player Chris Hawkins' use of university facilities; 2) the failure to monitor "social networking activity that visibly illustrated potential amateurism violations" and 3) the failure to investigate when provided with information regarding impermissible benefits provided to players.
UNC athletic director Dick Baddour said those were specific allegations and not broad brush by the NCAA condemning the athletic department for a failure to monitor.
Trips to Miami and Washington by Marvin Austin and Greg Little in May 2010 — which both players posted information about on their Twitter accounts — triggered the initial investigation. The NCAA first called UNC about the investigation on June 21 and proceeded with on-campus interviews on July 12.
According to the notice, seven players received more than $27,000 in impermissible benefits.
The NCAA connected three of the nine violations to Blake, who resigned on Sept. 5, one day after UNC's season-opening loss to LSU. The allegations against Blake center on his relationship with Wichard, who died in March.
According to the NCAA, Blake, who was head coach Butch Davis' top recruiter, "marketed athletic abilities of student-athletes to agent Gary Wichard." Blake also failed to report $31,000 in outside income from Wichard's agency.
The NCAA alleges that Blake acted as what is known as a "runner" on behalf of Wichard, steering players to him for representation: "Specifically, Blake was employed and compensated by Pro Tect Management to influence football student-athletes to hire Wichard to represent them," the letter states.
Blake also committed alleged violations in providing "false and misleading information" to NCAA investigators. This includes his denial that he ever worked for Pro Tect Management despite the existence of a sales brochure touting his involvement and, according to the letter, the presence of Pro Tect on his credit report as a former employer.
Wiley, who worked as tutor for the university from 2006 to 2008 and later as a tutor for the son of head coach Butch Davis. The notice ties three allegations to Wiley: two for impermissible academic help and monetary benefits and one for failing to cooperate with the NCAA.
According to the NCAA notice, Wiley provided $150 to a player for an airline ticket and paid $1,789 in parking violations.
Tuesday's notice did not include any possible punishment for the violations. The NCAA has said that each case is different and there are no standard guidelines for punishment, but penalties in similar high-profile cases in football and men's basketball have included the loss of scholarships, a ban from post-season, forfeiture of games involving the use of ineligible players and a suspension for the head coach, in the recent case of Connecticut's men's basketball team.
The pace of the investigation has accelerated in the past month after stagnating for the better part of the past seven months. The school received a notice of inquiry from the NCAA on June 7, which was essentially a precursor to Tuesday's letter of allegations.
Baddour said the next step for UNC is to prepare its response.
"We'll go through it in absolute detail and prepare our response," Baddour said. "Then we'll make decisions about what we agree with and what we don't agree with and how we're going to move forward."
Comments
I see a lot of folks are good...
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 17:27 — UNC1998at dissecting the NOA. I could care less what it says. What matters is what comes supposedly in October. That's not to say I'm not saddened by the turn of events for my alma mater. I've said here (or somewhere here) that to me it boils down to (1) a deceitful, lying coach,(2) some shortsighted decisions by "dumb" players,(3) a young lady who apparently got somewhat swept away, and must now live with her decisions forever, (4) a former player just trying to get in the fold (and since my previous post has gotten into some very deep doodoo in Ga). I'll add here some agents, but they're everywhere, and can't really be buttoned down. That issue will survive through all of this. All in all, UNC kinda got their $'s worth of trouble. The penalty will come, be carried out, and go away. What's important to me is that the program itself doesn't go too far back. It's up to the fans of the program to ensure the support remains, and the players and coaches can see it. That is all.
Agreed
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 17:52 — Heels20I'm thinking we'll know of the penalties around January/February. The earlier, the better, because recruits don't want to go to a school facing a bowl ban. If Carolina is fortunate enough to avoid that, then it would be nice to have that knowledge several weeks before signing day.
Unlike the vast majority...
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 18:14 — UNC1998I just don't see that happening. Folks joke about it, but if the NCAA really wants every school they ever investigate to give them the absolute blow off they should give UNC a TV/bowl ban. I feel confident in saying the main reason UNC got accused of so much is because of their unhalting cooperation with the NCAA. If they'd said "find what you can, and don't aske me 'cause I don't know." and such like some other (read SEC) schools do the NCAA couldn't have come up with all this. Maybe I'm wrong (it happens more often than I'd like to admit). I think when UNC got the certified mail with the NOA they also got a UPS package with the potential and likely penalties. I think how UNC responds will give a very good clue to what that supposed package might have contained.
Nice read
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 21:11 — gvillegatrI'll add to it. Every NCAA school in the country will be awaiting UNC's fate. Meaning if the NCAA drops the hammer on the Heels, there won't be another program to open their doors to them. Especially the part about UNC not playing kids before getting a notification.
Tough to tell
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 18:30 — Heels20I'm sure the university has a better idea of what the sanctions might be simply because of their unwavering support of Butch. Would they really back a guy this much if they thought a big hammer was about to come down?
It's hard to understand
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 19:17 — mad_maxIt's hard to understand UNC's support for Butch throughout this whole situation. The administration has backed him since day one, but at the same time, they STILL refuse to release his emails and cell phone records (which I'm hearing the media is still going after...probably going back to court for the 216 number).
I have recently come up with a theory (pure speculation of course)...
Do you think it is posssible that at this point UNC is holding on to Butch until the final verdict, so they can use him as some sort of negotiating tool with the NCAA? Maybe they can strike a deal with the COI in October. Maybe they can convince the NCAA to give them lesser penalties if they agree to fire Butch.
Also, I've been saying this for over a year: UNC may just be waiting until the NCAA comes down with sanctions so they can then fire Butch without having to pay off his contract. From what I understand, most (if not all) coaches have a clause in their contract that states that the contract can be terminated without penalty if NCAA sanctions received under that coach's tenure.
Regardless of whether my speculation holds any validity, it certainly doesn't make sense to get rid of Butch right now. Unfortunately, the waiting game continues. I think you were dead on earlier when you said we won't really know until January/February next year.
No and yes
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 21:18 — gvillegatrYouR 1st inclination is incorrect. They would have fired BD along with JB if this were the case. The 2nd thought is more accurate, but it will be bc the penalty was so severe the firing was justified.
Remember this gem?
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:31 — mad_maxHere's a great example of how some fans are blindly believing whatever it is that they want to hear, while completely ignoring the obvious facts:
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Here ye, here ye
Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:24 — gvillegatr
I'm a nobody in this game just like many of you are nobody's. With that being said, I just ran into someone who is a player in this game. He gave me some pretty good insight into this fiasco.
This ticket/car situation is OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THIS INVESTIGATION. The NCAA IS NOT looking into this. Just the media.
The John Blake situation has pretty much turned up nothing and the NCAA has not been able to get anything to stick to JB. He told me to take his word on it. I said OK.
The Hawkins situation, he says, is another story and this is where UNC will take a small lump. He Would not go into particulars.
Not alot about cheating either.
Ultimately
U
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Hey gatr, I'm just an average joe, but I happen to have a connection to this very wealthy prince overseas in Africa. If you help him out, he promises to make you rich beyond your wildest dreams...
In this persons defense
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 14:12 — gvillegatrI asked him about these points (yesterday) and he clarified (I took out of context) that we already knew about the other stuff, but Joe Public was not aware of how Chris Hawkins was gonna effect this investigation.
If you go back and re read what I posted, you'll see that I took him in a literal sense instead of asking him to clarify what he meant by John Blake, the tutor and the rest. As you'll see, I did say he said the Chris Hawkins ordeal was bigger and that seems to be the consensus whether bc we didn't know the extent or it actually is.
He wasn't wrong. I was not right.
Lol, whatever. I like the
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 19:03 — mad_maxLol, whatever.
I like the last part...."He wasn't wrong. I was not right."
Gatr can be "not right", but he never has or will be wrong! =)
At least he is consistent.
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 06:55 — noneyabusinessAt least he is consistent. His excuse is the same as it is for Butch.
If you don't know the truth, how can you possibly be wrong...
The situation
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 17:49 — Heels20The biggest thing to take away from the Notice of Allegations released yesterday is that it did not include LOIC. With that penalty, UNC would undoubtedly be facing major sanctions that would KILL recruiting, and ultimately lead to Butch's dismissal. Delusional fans howling for the death penalty will get neither their wish, nor anything close to it.
The factor that stands out in this case is John Blake. According to the NCAA, he straight up lied to them. He was basically playing the role of an agent on North Carolina's coaching staff. When has that been seen before? Never.
It doesn't look good that Butch retained the tutor. At all. But academic fraud is something that cannot always be controlled. The receiving of improper benefits from agents is not something that can always be controlled. These players are between the ages of 18-22, and will make mistakes. However, where do you draw the line for how responsible a head coach is for the actions of a guy he hired? When hiring not only an assistant, but especially the associate head coach, it is much more important to judge that person's character. While John Blake had never been proven guilty of anything by the NCAA in his days before repping Carolina blue, he still had a shady reputation. With no proof that Butch knew of Blake's actions, the NCAA, and North Carolina, will have to make the call of whether or not Butch should be held accountable to the extent that he loses his own job.
Personally, I don't think this is a sign that UNC has sold its soul to the devil for a shot at football glory. As I said earlier this week, Larry Shyatt accepted a head coaching position at Wyoming, saying that he was disgusted at the lack of ethics on the BCS level of collegiate sports. Yes, that was in basketball, but it's even easier to control that stuff when coaching on the hardwood because you have fewer players to keep up with. Is it uncommon for a head coach to hire a guy proven guilty of NOTHING, and maybe looking the other way when something shady may or may not be going on? The answer to that question is "no," and you are delusional if you think otherwise.
And to address this idiotic repetition of "you did all this cheating for some 8 win seasons?": Dude, you and I both know that without this investigation, Carolina football would have destroyed ANYTHING in its path this season. Yeah, some guys were ruled ineligible. But those guys still played football for North Carolina. As I've said before, even though it would've been unethical, if Marvin Austin had never discovered Twitter, we'd be nothing worse than just another school flying under the radar. Not saying it's right, but if you're saying that all the talent Butch has brought to North Carolina is capable of no more than 8 wins, then you simply remain a part of the lunatic fringe of the NC State fan base that makes everyone view you as the little brother when it comes to athletics.
My guess: Butch stays. It will be several months before we find out the penalties. I doubt we'll know anything until afer this season. Probation is pretty much guaranteed. The vacating of wins is pretty much guaranteed (according to Max's logic, I guess that means Butch was only a good enough coach for four wins). Loss of scholarships is very likely. Whether or not we receive a bowl ban will probably be decided based on how the NCAA views the university's handling of Blake. I'll choose to take the JPD route and be optimistic on this one.
And leaving this long of a post isn't worth it unless I get my shot in at TOB. You've got to love how through all of this investigation and all the negative publicity, O'Brien still can't recruit at our level even after badmouthing our recruits. His ego is still so big that it's blinding him from the fact that Russell Wilson is the only reason he has a job. With the game that State fans talk, you'd think that they've won a national title. Truth is, the only thing you have to hang your hat on is that you beat a Tar Heel football team that was missing a quarter of its starters (by the way, the best starters). Congrats?
Man, you sure aren't taking
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:50 — mad_maxMan, you sure aren't taking this very well. Regardless, I'll pile it on.
*Numbered by paragraph
1) There are VERY few people that ever "howled" about the death penalty. Most people know that punishment is for repeat offenders.
2) The John Blake stuff looks really bad, as you basically pointed out.
3) I'm trying to think of another coach in any college sport that had 9 major NCAA violations under his watch, and didn't lose his job. Maybe there is one out there, but I'm having a tough time finding 'em.
4) Umm...I'm not sure what that question accomplishes. You should have asked something more like this: Is it uncommon for a coach to hire his friend of 30+ years, who has a shady reputation (and a sweet nick-name to boot!), and then act totally clueless when said shady coach gets caught breaking the rules? -- Oh wait, I guess you couldn't have asked that since the answer might have been yes.
5) This one really made me laugh. Obviously, this stuff is all getting under your skin. Butch's program has been cheating, and they haven't gotten more than 8 wins...what don't you understand about that? What's golden about your whining in this particular case, is that it's not the "wuffies" that are making the comments...it's sportswriters making the jokes about UNC not getting their money's worth! Priceless. There might be a lot of talent, but Butch has yet to show he can win big with it (or even post a winning conference record).
6) "The vacating of wins is pretty much guaranteed (according to Max's logic, I guess that means Butch was only a good enough coach for four wins)." -- I'm not following this cheap shot. When have I ever even said anything about UNC's vacating of wins? Somehow, you are trying to equate sitting out players and losing to winning with ineligible players and later forfeiting those wins. Very different. Nice try though. Oh, and what exactly is my "logic"? I'd like to hear this one.
7) Your shots at TOB are only cute when they contain halfway valid points...otherwise, it's just pathetic. While your coach is out chasing POTENTIALLY good players, TOB is molding young student-athletes into football players and men. Russell Wilson was a 2 star, right?
Your last line was the best though: "Truth is, the only thing you have to hang your hat on is that you beat a Tar Heel football team that was missing a quarter of its starters (by the way, the best starters). Congrats?"
Just having fun with it
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:04 — Heels201. Have you encountered your fan base?
2. Yes, that was my point.
3. Check Clemson football violations that occurred from '77 to '82. Not sure it was 9 violations, but Ford kept his job despite the fact that the violations were pretty much all directly related to the coaching staff.
4. So every program with a shady assistant gets caught? And most BCS programs are clean?
5. You tried to take the 8-win cheap shot in an earlier post. Again, as I said, Butch brought in talent that would have won the ACC this year had it not been for Twit pics. Cite your "national writers" all you want, but NFL coaches were saying around draft time that this defense would've given the Heels a shot to beat Auburn this year.
6. Your logic completely ignores what this team would have been without the investigation. Need I say it again? Without Twit pics, this team would probably win the ACC.
7. Sweezy, Kuhn, Bryan, Vermiglio, Lemon, Byrd, Hickman. Just to name a few. Also, Wilson was an Amato recruit.
Ha, it's still funny that you try to defend State as though TOB built them into some spectacular football team. You want to take a shot at three straight 8-win seasons when your coach only has one winning season while wearing the red? And it was only one game better than the guy 25 miles up the road whose team was crushed with injuries and suspensions? That's a pretty ceiling right there. Herb Sendek with a few wins over the Heels...
1) I bet I can find some
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:18 — mad_max1) I bet I can find some Carolina fans that claim we never landed on the moon, but that doesn't mean they represent the fan base.
3) Still looking...
4) I admit, my question was obviously too specific to be taken seriously. But it was in response to your overly vague question. Feel like you conveniently left some stuff out.
5 & 6) Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Take a step back and you might see how arrogant this argument is. So many Heels fans automatically assume that UNC would have won a championship. None of us will ever know what would have happened had UNC not been caught. Perhaps they would have had more than 8 wins, but there is no guarantee of that, despite how many of you want to whine about it. It's like me saying that if State didn't have so many injuries a couple years ago, they would have won the ACC...the same $hitty logic. All we can say is that the team UNC fielded last year got 8 wins.
7) I seem to remember those players getting punished by TOB. Can't say Butch's players have ever missed a game because they were caught with weed (and they have been on multiple occasions). RW being Amato's recruit is irrelevant...my point is that TOB has coached low star recruits up enough to beat your "highly touted" roster for 3 years in a row.
When have I claimed that State has a spectacular football team under TOB? Never. I've simply objected to your blindness in regards to the progress that TOB is making. Besides, you're the one that is clinging on to mythical championships that never occured. Let's see which program is in better shape after this upcoming season.
Nice Sendek analogy. I was going to bring up my old Amato/Davis comparison, but that wouldn't be fair to Amato, since he was able to accomplish more in his first 4 years, and he didn't have to cheat to do it!
You're still spinning
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:33 — Heels201. Don't even try to defend your fan base. The idiots within the NC State fan base are far more common than they are in the UNC fan base. Call me arrogant, call me an elitist. It's the truth, and that's how it's seen by a statewide perspective (would say national, but you're just irrelevant nationally).
3. Point is that Clemson had more serious violations (led to TV ban) than UNC that went on for a longer period. If you don't understand that, then I guess you're further proving point my point above.
4. Not a hard concept to grasp. Head coach hires assistant coach. Head coach looks in other direction. Assistant coach violates an NCAA rule. Are you saying that's uncommon?
5&6. Give it up, man. Anyone who knows anything about football knows this team would have won more than 8 games without the investigation. Just like everyone knows State would not have won 9 games without its 3 best players this year (and no, I am not accusing you of cheating). And the same logic? Refresh my memory. When, under O'Brien, has State had three players selected in the first two rounds of the NFL draft? Oh yeah. Never.
7. Suspending the three of the four (Bryan got to play because he was innocent, I'm sure. Not because he was the best of the four) for a game against a Divison 1AA opponent is hardly a punishment. And where in my argument was I defending Butch for turning all of these players into "men"? I was just countering your argument that TOB is doing this. Not exactly like your Wolfpackers all have squeaky clean records.
Heh, I love the Amato-Davis comparison. How many parallels can we draw here? Can you put your finger on one player who has carried Carolina football for four years? Oh, wait. We have a team.
Talk about cheating all you want. O'Brien is the only one who has fielded a player who was caught with PEDs.
Just face it, H20. Not
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:59 — mad_maxJust face it, H20. Not only is our football team better than yours, but we are better people than you too. That's what this is really all about. =) It's still June. Can't wait until the actual games start.
just face it
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:29 — SurferH20, I am not saying Max is right, but he probably does believes it, as I think I have seen this on a T-shirt somewhere.
Yep
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 19:00 — mad_maxYou probably saw it on the back of my "I support Butch" shirt!
Right
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:02 — SurferYep, I heard TOB bought a couple thousand of those, seeing that he has convinced himself, and all who are buying it, that he can not lose to UNC, it is the "new cultue" at NCSU. Now all he has to do is work on the ECU and Dook rivalries.
Just don't shoot me in your parking lot
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 23:02 — Heels20Ha, I am definitely looking forward to it as well.
MAX and H20
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 08:16 — YAR8packExcellent and hilarious reads to start my morning. Both of you guys do an great job of dressing your personal biases in argumentative clothing. Some of it I agree with and some of it I don't. I'm sure you guys can figure out which one of the two of you I agree more with. :-D
I'm still compiling and figuring out all of the information that's coming out about all of this NOA stuff. So much to wade thru.
The craziest and semi-damning thing to me is how it's stated unc was informed of Chris Hawkins' transgressions well before anything came to pass and unc did nothing. Yeah, yeah, "everyone has those former players on campus." But unc did nothing about it after being warned from a player that something was going on.
Also, I will agree that Butch Davis may not have known about the full extent of John Blake's agent related dealings, but the man had to know something. Davis has been in contact with Blake for 30+ years. Davis had to know Blake's reputation. I just find it very hard to believe a man like Davis, who is so meticulously controlling in his program that he is the one who decides what pants the players and coaches wear, didn't know anything. Not buying it. Davis knew something. He had to know.
H20, come on now. You've ribbed several posters and myself over the "well, if we woulda been at full strength roster wise, we woulda won this many games" weak argument. Let it go. unc could've certainly been even better defensely last year had they been at full strength, which is hard to believe because they were still good. But there's no way to know exactly what would've happened. Besides, maybe Yates doesn't play as well as he did without all of the adversity? Maybe if Pianalto hadn't had brick hands a couple times? Trust me, I know about brick hands. I still have Bryan's and every other NC State receiver's multiple drops in my head from last year's game against umd.
Y'all take care.
Glad you enjoyed! By the
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 18:59 — mad_maxGlad you enjoyed!
By the way, I almost forgot about all the "adversity" last year =). Good point about TJ.
Cupcake
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 19:46 — YAR8packSome blue cupcake man had a funny "tweet" (geesh that term sounds so ridiculous) the other day that told a bit about that "adversity."
I tried not to stoke the fires too much, Max. Gonna save all of that for the early season predictions blogs. :-D
A couple points
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 10:37 — Heels20For the most part, I agree. But...
-Hawkins stuff does make things look ugly, but a major key is that we were not hit with LOIC. That makes a HUGE difference.
-I'm not saying that Butch didn't know anything, but there are two things I do believe. 1) he didn't know the extent to which Blake was being dirty, and 2) he did a good enough job of covering his tracks that, with no proof, the NCAA can't rule that he knew. Keep in mind that Blake had the bad reputation, but had never been proven guilty of anything by the NCAA before his days at UNC.
-My argument of "what if" goes against the people who say "Butch has shown he's can do no better than 8 wins." That's the dumbest thing in the world to say "oh, well, maybe they still would have been at 8-win team." No they wouldn't...
-Agree 100% on the point that Yates may not have played as well without the adversity. I've stated that myself before and that's why I'm not screaming about the national title that never happened. I do strongly believe that the investigation changed the way that Yates played.
Agree, Couldn't have stated
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 09:28 — unc098Agree, Couldn't have stated that better. H20 and Max, thanks for the entertainment and rePOSTe. :-))))
Yar8, Whhatts up Bro?????
Glad we can entertain!
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 18:58 — mad_maxGlad we can entertain! Despite the occasional pissing contests, I think we have a pretty sweet community here on the blog!
whoops
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:52 — mad_maxdouble post
Maxy, maxy, maxy
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:07 — gvillegatrIf I had an hour plus to respond I would. Fortunatley I do not.
Did you even read what 20 wrote ? Or did you choose not to ? Maybe it is your comprehension skills ?
Hah okay
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:21 — mad_maxI would love for you to elaborate, but of course, your time is too valuable to waste trying explaining your empty accusations.
Whoa now
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 12:56 — gvillegatrI'm no better than the next guy (except for bluegnat :) ), but it would take a good portion of my work day to post via my phone. But more importantly it wouldn't do any good !!! ;)
butch
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:42 — JPDOhioThe consensus seems to be that Butch will survive this mess with his job intact. If he does, there can be no denying that UNC has sold its soul for the chance of achieving football glory.
Organizations make choices when it comes to how they will conduct business. Some are willing to allow any behavior that advances the organization's goals, as long as there is no paper trail to implicate the leaders. Essentially, employees can do what they want, as long as they don't get caught and they keep quiet when they do get caught. This is the environment that Butch presides over, with the support of the decision makers in the UNC system.
There may be no evidence that ties Butch directly to any of the allegations. However, as a leader, he is responsible for hiring John Blake, whose past would warrant more than the usual amount of oversight to make sure that, for perhaps the first time in his career as a coach, he was complying with all the rules. Everything was fine until Blake got caught. So he was sent packing, hush money in hand, lips sealed.
The personal hiring of the tutor in Butch's home is disturbing too, especially with the disclosure that she provided free tutoring services to players and paid for certain players' travel expenses and parking tickets. Whether Butch helped fund those payments is unknown, and the tutor isn't talking. Once again, Butch is in the clear with no damaging evidence to be found (yet).
It certainly appears that Butch has dodged the bullets here and will likely continue on his merry way, building UNC football into the championship contender that the decision-makers apparently desire above all else. No worries about UNC's integrity as an institution of higher learning getting tossed out the window in the process. The public's attention span is short, and all will be forgiven once the football program joins its basketball counterparts as National Champions. Of course, the NCAA may make them wait a few years before that can happen.
guilt and cataracts
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:26 — unc098From the beginning I have felt that Butch was not completely clear of these allegations. I can accept arguments from both sides on this issue and thus I feel torn about it. Having been in the business world for more years than I care to admit, I have seen examples of the type of deception perpetrated by Blake and the elite players, but I have also seen the convenient 'look the other way approach' of the chief executive as well. I have a hard time with someone who gets paid 2 mil having convenient amnesia. I see a lack of executive control on this issue. We also live under the rule of law that claims that one is innocent until proven guilty. So far Butch seems to have escaped direct responsibility for the actions of his immediate subordinates and players. I do know in the business world this usually leads to resignations.
I think that the competitive nature of college athletics with its monetary "ball and chain" which, along with basketball, supports the vast complex of the schools athletic program, can lead to decisions that can result in the erosion of institutional integrity. I think UNC may have found itself on the slippery slope in this case. Quite sad really. I feel that this investigation will shadow the university for many years to come in a negative way regardless of championships. Given the recent stories concerning bending the rules by many of the elite in the world of college athletics, I would say we have a pandemic of LOIC throughout.
very thoughtful points
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:51 — JPDOhioAs usual.
Your reference to innocence until proven guilty is probably the key point of disagreement between me and the posters who think Butch should keep his job. In my view, if found guilty, you're gone. If not proven guilty, maybe you survive, but you still may be out. As you said, in the business world, this type of fiasco usually leads to termination. I see no reason why the same conclusion shouldn't apply here.
......and it really is the
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:24 — unc098......and it really is the business world.... maybe they are playing by Enron and World Com rules.
no soul selling
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:49 — SurferAgree with gator, no so selling of the soul going on here if Coach Davis is innocent. Those who don't believe it may never be swayed, but until I see information that makes me think otherwise, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. He seems to be genuinely upset by all this mess and as he says "as the head coach, takes full responsibility". He made mistakes (hiring Blake), but not intentionally. The poor decisions and deceptiveness of a few players, a tutor and an assistant coach are the reasons for these allegations. Coach Davis and the University were proactive in immediately responding to these issues last Fall and as a whole, the University should be proud in the manner in which these things were handled.
agree to disagree...
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 14:22 — JPDOhioWith both you and gatr, which is fine. There certainly is room for legit debate on this issue. And, of course, we all bring our own personal biases into these discussions (except for me, as I am always completely objective in all my comments).
The case for Butch keeping his job can be summarized like this: "There is no proof that Butch knew any of this was going on". In my mind, this is a cop out. It is his responsibility to know what is going on, especially with an assistant coach who had a history of questionable behavior. Butch failed (by omission) at this very important aspect of his job.
If he was truly "taking full responsibility", he would resign. Otherwise, those are just words and the man has no credibility with me.
"Coach Davis and the
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 14:16 — mad_max"Coach Davis and the University were proactive in immediately responding to these issues last Fall..."
According to the NOA, an unidentified student athlete contacted someone in the athletic department about possible NCAA violations before the NCAA showed up, and the athletic department didn't pursue it.
I know the UNC administration wants us all to believe that they have fully cooperated, but the NOA shows that the NCAA seems to think differently. There are also multiple parts that talk about UNC not being forthcoming and honest with information.
If you want to believe that Butch is innocent and didn't know any of this was going on, then go ahead...some people also believe in a talking snake and a wooden boat that held two of every animal. No sense in trying to change some people's minds, I guess.
One final question though...if Butch didn't know anything (lol), then why won't he release his phone records? Shouldn't be anything to hide...
"The consensus seems to be
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:25 — mad_max"The consensus seems to be that Butch will survive this mess with his job intact."
Much respect for you, JPD, as you are one of the best posters that I have read from anywhere on the internet. However, I don't know where the above quote is coming from. I've read plenty of SI, Yahoo, and ESPN articles from the past 24 hours, and most of them seem to think it would be very surprising if Butch survives this. Even some of the lunatic fringe on IC is starting to get worried about Butch's job.
I don't claim to know what is going to happen in the end, but the idea that Butch's job is safe is FAR from the consensus opinion.
I honestly think Butch will have to go after this is all said and done, though if he remains, I won't be too surprised or heartbroken. If this all happened at State under TOB's watch, I would be calling for his head. It is amazing to me that recruiting stars and 8 win seasons are enough to make usually rational UNC fans support Butch and his corrupt program.
Question for the loyal Heels fans on here....
Are you at least a little upset with Butch because of all this? Or do you really think that he is innocent and should remain the head football coach regardless of what punishment comes down?
"If" was Butch guilty.
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:32 — hellfishDo you not think that UNC would go not after the BEST coach available?..You hater's think that UNC football will seem to just cease to exist ,and that's not gonna happen...No Butch then it's the NEXT head coach and the wheels keep turning. UNC will continue to build a BCS football program no matter who the coach is so get over it ,because what you want to happen ain't gonna happen.
Hate to step in
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 18:33 — Heels20Football in the state of North Carolina is historically bad. The national perspective is that football cannot succeed in this area. You have five Division 1A programs competing for prospects in a state where most of the top talent goes elsewhere. North Carolina has good fan support, but not SEC-level fan support. FSU, VT, Clemson, and Miami are the only schools in the conference that would really be expected to go out and find a big coach. Shoot, Miami is a freaking gold mine when it comes to high school football talent, and the U even has a tough time finding that high profile coach. As an avid fan, I will still say that the future of North Carolina football would be very questionable without Butch Davis.
Yes sir
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:50 — gvillegatrWho else is gonna come in and replace him ? Nobody worth his weight. After he is done I think it is possible. But zero percent on Jun 22, 2011.
Prediction
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:17 — JPDOhioThis is based on nothing other than a feeling of where mess is heading, gleaned from public reports. My sense is that Butch won't survive this season.
There are so many issues in so many different aspects of the program that some (maybe most) are likely to stick. Those issues that don't will probably be due to lack of evidence more so than the existence of clear evidence that exonerates Butch.
I can see the pressure building on those in power who currently are protecting him. Eventually, like a weakened levee burdened by the constant pressure of flood waters, they will crack and Butch will be swept away with the raging current.
He'll survive this season
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 14:10 — gvillegatrIts after the penalty is actually levied ... Will he be around for the following seasons ?
Butch's future
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 16:54 — Heels20Forget the tutor, forget the receiving of improper benefits. Butch's future will come down to two things:
-First of all, there will not be a TV ban. However, if there is a bowl ban, that will hurt recruiting, which could lead to Butch's dismissal.
-More importantly, how much will the university blame Butch for John Blake's actions? If the administration sees that he probably knew a lot, even if not actively involved, then they may put a lot of blame on him. If they feel that it was a situation where he knew something may be going on but didn't know the extent to which it was going on, then they may just keep him on a short leash.
bowl ban
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:08 — SurferNo doubt, that would hurt recruiting, but I thought that that was doubtful, seeing that there was no LOIC. Of course, I have been wrong before (I thought there was no way State would beat UNC in FB the past 2 years).
Like many others, I
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:03 — mad_maxLike many others, I originally thought that LOIC was a big deal. However, after some research, I think people are putting way too much emphasis on that term. From what I understand, there is no definition in the NCAA rulebook for terms like LOIC and FTM.
It is true that LOIC only appears in the section referring to post-season bans, so I guess that is where we all got this idea from. But if you look at past investigations, you can see that LOIC does not imply a bowl ban, just as a lack of LOIC does not imply no bowl ban. Arizona State was charged with LOIC, and all they received was 2 year probation. On the other hand, Alabama did not receive LOIC, and they were hit with 5 years probation and a 2 year bowl ban.
Hard to predict what will happen. There is no precedent to a situation like John Blake's.
Great post
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:25 — Heels20There is no guarantee of what sanctions come with LOIC. It is a very serious allegation that any university in this situation is happy to avoid, but it doesn't carry a specific tag of punishments.
You're dead on with the John Blake comment. That's what separates this situation from others.
Correct
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:18 — willncsuWill be much harder to pull a decent coach without a full allotment of scolarships and no bowls for a couple years. It completely handicaps your recruiting.
That's a fast conclusion
Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:33 — Heels20Wasn't aware there's a bowl ban...