GREENSBORO — N.C. State coach Tom O'Brien wasn't happy to see the Wolfpack's game with rival North Carolina scheduled for the last week of the 2009 season.
"I think it's a dumb game to play at that time of the year, because you're crossing divisions," O'Brien said Monday at the ACC media kickoff.
Since the ACC expanded to 12 teams in 2005, N.C. State has been in the Atlantic Division, while North Carolina has played in the Coastal Division. The division winners meet in the ACC championship game on the Saturday after the regular season concludes.
That means N.C. State could meet North Carolina in the ACC title game Dec. 5 in Tampa the week after the teams' scheduled Nov. 28 meeting in Raleigh.
Although a championship game meeting seems unlikely this season after the schools were picked to finish third in their respective divisions in the preseason media poll, O’Brien doesn’t want to take that chance.
"Certainly you don't want them or you don't want us again playing in the championship game (the next week)," O'Brien said. "We'd be much better served as a conference, I think, to work games within the Coastal Division or Atlantic Division the last game."
O'Brien voiced concern about the same issue last season, when N.C. State played cross-divisional foe Miami in the finale. That game did not have an impact on the ACC championship race.
North Carolina coach Butch Davis seemed unconcerned about when the rivalry game is scheduled, but ACC associate commissioner Michael Kelly, who creates the football schedule, shares O'Brien's concern. In a perfect world, Kelly said, ACC teams would play only division rivals or nonconference opponents in the final week of the regular season.
But Kelly said scheduling is complicated. Schools set their own four-game conference schedules, and the ACC tries to accommodate one specific scheduling request for conference games for each school. After those criteria are met, the remaining matchups and sites for that particular year are entered into a computer program that generates potential schedules.
Kelly said there isn't an option that satisfies everybody on every week. He said the benefit of the North Carolina at N.C. State date is an opportunity for a good crowd, even though the game is on Thanksgiving weekend when many students will be home on break.
Other in-state rivalries such as Clemson-South Carolina, Florida State-Florida and Georgia Tech-Georgia traditionally are played late in the season, but those are nonconference games. Kelly said there is no plan to make N.C. State-North Carolina an annual staple at the end of the schedule.
"It's not in our plans to necessarily gravitate to that," Kelly said. "We'll kind of see how it goes and see what the feedback of the school is in terms of their priorities of scheduling and see how it goes from there."
In order for North Carolina to play N.C. State on the final weekend, the Tar Heels' traditional season-ending meeting with Duke had to be moved. Forty-two times in the last 44 years, Duke's final regular-season opponent has been North Carolina.
The teams will meet on Nov. 7 in Chapel Hill this season. Duke sports information director Art Chase said the benefit of having students from both schools participating in the rivalry week activities outweighed Duke's concerns about moving the game from its traditional date.
Since 1983, there has been just one season when Duke and North Carolina finished with a winning record. With that in mind, North Carolina sports information director Steve Kirschner said, his school's administrators have long thought the rivalry with Duke would generate more fan interest earlier in the season.
Kirschner said North Carolina fans are excited about playing the Wolfpack last. Davis didn’t seem troubled with the date of either of North Carolina’s rivalry games.
"It wouldn't matter if we played both of them back-to-back weeks one and two, they're going to be huge, monumental games with their fans and our fans," Davis said. "So, whether you end the season with them or play them in the middle of the season, it really doesn't matter."
Comments
o'brien can get over it
Fri, 08/07/2009 - 11:14 — alexm2203I really can't stand him.
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i've always liked the idea
Sun, 08/02/2009 - 17:00 — mad_maxi've always liked the idea of playing the arch-rival at the very end of the season. especially when you aren't always expecting to go to a bowl game...it's nice to have that type of atmosphere at the end of the season, even if it hasn't been the best year. if our teams are going to be more successful though, and actually compete for acc titles, then TOB's stance makes a lot of sense. personally, i don't care when we play them, just as long as it happens every year.
Advantage
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 20:46 — Heels20Personally, I think it's to Carolina's advantage that we play State the last week of the year. TOB treats it as the biggest game of the year, no matter when it is played. Part of the reason we got blown out last year was the obvious lack of preparation. Offensively, we had our problems already with Yates just getting back. Defensively, it looked as though no one knew where they were supposed to be, with Owen Spencer and Jarvis Williams open on just about every play. Maybe Butch will take it a little more seriously if there are championship implications. However, most of all, I just want to see a competitive game where each team brings everything they've got.
WR development
Fri, 07/31/2009 - 12:00 — SurferAgree, also, barring injuries, the later game gives UNC's young, but talented receiving corps more time to develop.
Observations
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 12:24 — SurferI thought State was picked to finish first, not third? Maybe that is what TOB is really mad about.
Glad to see BD recognizes that this is a big game, whenever it is played. Didn't seem like he grasped that last year until after the fact.
RE: Observations
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 13:27 — bradleyb123Different people have different predictions. The big one that just came out has State and Carolina both finishing third in their respective divisions.
I wouldn't say TOB is "mad." I think he has a valid point, although I like this game being played at the end. No chance Carolina will be in the ACC championship game anyway, not this year.
Rivalry
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 10:49 — heelsno1It is fabulous that NC State and UNC will play in the season's finale. I hope it continues. This timing will promote broader coverage on the national stage helping both programs from a visibility and recruiting standpoint. The likelihood of both teams playing the following week for the ACC Championship is remote; however, if that should happen, what a great development that would be!
Over the past 15-20 years, there is one word for playing Duke in football...boring.
DUIke has dismissed football for sooooo long
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 22:44 — gvillegatrno one will ever want them as a rivlary in the sport. the stigma is there and will ALWAYS be there.
i disagree. sure, duke is
Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:55 — mad_maxi disagree. sure, duke is and has been horrible for quite a while, but i don't think it's definitely permanent. duke could very well get back to the top 25s one day.
mad max
Sun, 08/02/2009 - 21:36 — gvillegatryou need to comprehend what I wrote. I said no one would want them as rival b/c of the stigma thye have put on themselves.
It doesn't have anything to do with how good they might become one day.
No matter what DUIke becomes in the future, you'll never look at them as ncsu rival.
Heels/Duke
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 22:28 — festerUNC's biggest rival is Duke, the Heels should play Duke the last game every year. If it's not Duke, i'm glad it's State. One thing to consider is if UNC/State were playing one another last game and the both were contenders for the ACC title game, most likely the loser would be out or one could play spoiler. It would be funny if that happened this year. This is going to be a fun year, UNC is going to play both each year, it doesn't matter which order.
Next Year...
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 19:53 — willncsuI could see both teams playing for the title. Not this year though. I do not think we should play the last game of the year. Isn't there another week that is designated as "rivalry week" by ESPN before the last week?
liar
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 20:14 — gvillegatrsometime in the last two years there was a blog up about naming the unc ncsu game. also, everyone talked about when the game should be played.
not one person said it should be played any other weekend but the last one. and that was from both sides.
this game should only be played last. it always gives both teams something to play for regardless of where they stand.
Wow!
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 20:25 — willncsuNot sure how voicing my opinion makes me a liar. Clearly your ECU degree in STD's an nitrous huffing has not improved your reading comprehention and logic skills.
I obviously called you a liar
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 21:19 — gvillegatrb/c you irritate the hell out of me ... not b/c I actually know what you mean.
But what I do know is you are the only fan on either side to say the game shouldn't be played on the last saturday of the season, no matter what the setting. i.e. friends, work, randoms at the bar, ball game.
one has to infer you are just playing contrarian as opposed to really believing you.
Last Weekend of ACC football
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 18:19 — jpomeranz52Actually, as a longtime NC State fan, I love it...playing UNC the last game, but, last January, I posted to another website a modest proposal for the last game for the ACC: Only divisional games for all 12 teams. State would always play Wake Forest the last game. Duke and Carolina. This idea would take moving those Clemson-South Carolina, Georgia-GaTech, Florida-Florida State games to earlier in the season. The three ACC schools actually like the idea. Read the story which includes comments from John Swofford and others:
http://jimpomeranz.easyjournal.com/entry.aspx?eid=3953521
In theory, he has a good
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 17:49 — dmccallIn theory, he has a good point about the sudden rematch potential. Let's not kid ourselves, though. Once NCSU or UNC lose their first game, they have no chance to play for the national championship. Therefore the rest of their seasons have no more meaning than simple exhibition play.
When we quit pretending that these exhibition games mean something (including all bowl games except one), then the sport will become something that isn't grossly overvalued.
TOB is not talking about
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 19:08 — aideanTOB is not talking about the national championship hes talking bout the ACC Champ and last year both teams in the title bout had 3 conference losses. IF he were talking about the National championship I am sure he could give a rats behind about who he played in the last game of the reg. season.
Unfortunate
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 17:28 — mikbarrettDuke has no business playing Carolina last. Their fans, what few they have for football, don't even care.
The State-UNC rivalry is the best in the state, but suffers from having no national identity. Having them play at the end of every season would help to change that and give the game a brand. O'Brien's argument is legit, even though pigs would fly before both teams played in the championship game.
The only answer might be to do for State and UNC what the league did for UVa and Va. Tech by putting them in the same division (maybe bring Carolina into the Atlantic and throw Duke into the Coastal). Regardless, as long as State and UNC continue to play at ragtag times from season to season, it will continue to be an underappreciated rivalry outside of North Carolina. And that's a shame.
Rivalry
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 19:47 — tucdm01lThe fact is, Duke and Carolina were placed in the same division to make sure that their basketball teams would play a home/away series every year. Moving either out of their current division would jeopardize that tradition, which the ACC is unlikely to do, especially given the attention it garners from the national media. Of course, if I could have it my way, UNC, NCSU, Duke, and Wake all would be in the same division to preserve those rivalries in all sports. If I compare those in-state match-ups to any of those teams playing BC or Miami, all I can do is yawn. Even if BC and Miami are good teams, it's hard for that kind of match against the NC schools to garner the same passion that the in-state games do, regardless of what the likely outcome may be.
The Atlantic and Coastal
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 20:37 — Heels20The Atlantic and Coastal divisions aren't relevant in basketball. Each team is guaranteed 2 teams that they will play twice every year. For Carolina, we have State and Dook. For State, they have Carolina and Wake (check me on that).
I have a feeling the divisions were designed this way so that two rivals could meet in the ACC championship. Imagine how fast tickets would sell out of State and Carolina met, or Miami and FSU. Then again, UVA and VT are in the same division, so who knows? As far as I'm concerned, the divisions are fine the way they are.
good point
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 01:59 — dougcoatson the basketball scheduling. the divisions are fine like they are since a true geographic separation would divide the big 4. Even though the only football championship that has had a decent crowd was the FSU/VT game, the potential is certainly there for a popular rivalry match-up.
Duke
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 19:00 — aideanDuke is already in the coastal
so?
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 18:33 — JohnA"The State-UNC rivalry is the best in the state, but suffers from having no national identity."
It's an in-state rivalry, who cares if the rest of the nation is into it?
Here's why
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 13:37 — bradleyb123Wouldn't it be nice for this rivalry to get national attention? It could only help recruiting as we build ourselves into football powerhouses.
Also like to say good luck
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 16:52 — Steven252525Also like to say good luck to both schools. It would be a fun time this year.
As a State fan I don't think
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 16:50 — Steven252525As a State fan I don't think it would be a big deal. Play them twice in two weeks would be good for both programs and good for NC.
The Knucklehead Faction
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 16:26 — AgentPierceThe Knucklehead Faction among my UNC brethren will twist and convolute TO'B remarks into some bizarro "proof" that TO'B is skeered of Butch or similar nonsense. Bless their hearts.
With TO'B 2-0 vs Butch, I'm one Tar Heel who just wants us to beat'em one day soon regardless of where on the schedule.