At 2-10 in the ACC, N.C. State could have checked out for the season. Instead, the Wolfpack has its first conference winning streak and an overall record of 16-13 with two games left in the regular season.
Wolfpack coach Sidney Lowe would like to see his team rewarded with an NIT bid for their resilience.
"I think it would be great for our team," Lowe said. "From a standpoint, you know what, your continued hard work and continued great attitude has paid off and you're going to continue to play."
On the plus side, N.C. State has three wins over ACC teams likely to make the NCAA Tournament (Duke, Florida State and Wake Forest) and a nonconference win over Marquette.
On the flip side, State lost to Arizona, Northwestern and UNC — three teams also on the NIT "bubble" (if such a thing exists).
Before the NCAA took over the NIT, the "name" programs had the first crack at the 32-team field. Since 2007, the NIT has opened more spots from lesser-known conferences — rewarding regular-season conference champions, for example — and moved away from the "Hey, Big Name U can sell 8,000 tickets, they're in" philosophy.
Actually, with so many big names — UNC, UCLA and Arizona — in the NIT mix, the Wolfpack's chances are further diminished unless they can continue to win.
Lowe's first team, in 2007, made the NIT field after reaching the ACC Tournament championship game. The past two State teams have missed the postseason entirely.
Comments
Sid's tenure
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:28 — SurferI honestly think that there will be significant improvement next year and if those guys hang around and he can back it up with similar recruits, who will stay three or more years, then Sid could be around for another 20 years.
Sid is safe
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:23 — bradleyb123I believe State will do well enough next year that the only people still calling for his job are either the ones that want a national championship overnight, or the ones that hold his first four years against him. But if we judge Sid and next year's team by what they do next year, I believe we'll be some happy folks.
It helps that Tracy Smith is coming back next year. I'm glad he didn't pull a Josh Powell / Ced Simmons on us and turn pro before he was ready.
My hope....
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:39 — JPDOhiois that State does so well next year that all doubts about Sid's future die a natural death. With the talent coming back (with a full season under their belts) and promising guards coming in, it is not delusional to think it might happen.
Not delusional
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:15 — SurferThanks for the vote of confidence.
Delusional
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:29 — JPDOhioI am pretty sure that adjective is applied to me way more than you.
Herb???
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:04 — bradleyb123Why do people still bring up Herb?
He's gone. We're glad he's gone. He doesn't want to come back, and we don't WANT him back. Everybody's happy!
But let's also be fair. You don't compare Herb's last 4-5 years with Sidney's FIRST 4 years. Let's compare apples and apples: In Herb's fourth year, he got us into the NIT. In his fifth year, we won THIRTEEN games. And we STILL brought him back for a sixth year.
So if history is any indication, Sidney is quite safe for next year and quite possibly the year after that.
question: why do people still bring up herb?
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 18:46 — gvillegatrB/c Herb was in an unique situation compared to the rest of the coaches who get fired or are not asked to come back.
HE WENT TO THE NCAA TOURNEY 5 OR 6 TIMES IN A ROW AND WAS MORE OF A WINNER THAN A LOSER IN ITS BASIC FRACTION.
I don't care how many times you guys say, "well, he was never successful in the tourney."
My answer: Many coaches have never been successful in the tourney. tough doodoo, state fans. most of you don't get it. it ain't getting no better.
Herb will likely be the best coach you guys see in the next 20 yrs or so and his name will continue to come up b/c of it.
I will concede if SId can get his recruits next year (BTW, it has been compared to the freshmen on UNC's team this year) to play and fight hard, then ncsu bball has the ability to turn itslef around. but it is not a one year deal and I am not saying anybody has implied that it will be.
To be fair...
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:13 — Heels20...Herb inherited a much worse situation than Sid. I'm not saying I think State should bring him back, but Jeremy Hyatt and Danny Strong aren't exactly what you'd call 5-star recruits.
Herb's fifth year
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:20 — bradleyb123How many of Herb's fifth year players were inherited by Herb? You know, the ones that won exactly 13 games for him that year. When you talk about "inherited players", you're only talking about their first 3-4 years of coaching. After that, it's THEIR OWN players. I'm talking about Herb vs. Sid in their 4th and 5th years. Herb did better in his first three years. They are on par with each other in their 4th years. But Sidney is in a position to do MUCH better than Herb in his fifth year at State.
ASU can KEEP Herb. I still don't know why his name is still mentioned. The only people that want him back are Carolina fans, and a small handful of wacko NC State fans.
Let me re-state...
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:39 — Heels20I wasn't saying that Herb should come back. All I'm saying is that it's a lot easier to recruit with the pitch "Hey, we just made 5 straight NCAA tournaments and had 6 straight 20-win seasons" than with the pitch "Hey, we just got off probation a couple years ago and just made the NIT a couple straight times."
You're right to say that Herb and Sid are about even at this point in their coaching careers at State, but I imagine Sid had a much easier time recruiting when he arrived at State than Herb had. At the same time, State wasn't going anywhere with Herb. They probably wouldn't be as bad as they are at the moment, but they would never make it past the Sweet 16. Sid is at least bringing in recruits good enough to do that. Now we just have to wait and see if he can do his part in coaching...
I see your point
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 18:17 — bradleyb123...but I think Sid had a more difficult recruiting situation than you think. Thanks to the botched coaching search, Sid came in VERY late in the game. His first year was practically a lost recruiting year. And he came in straight from the ranks of the NBA. He had ZERO high school coaching connections or recruiting relationships at his disposal. He was starting from ground zero in that regard.
In Sid's first year, he SHOULD have benefitted from State's status and recent NCAA tournament trips. But he wasn't really able to capitalize on that.
And the players that accept his offers all say the same thing when asked why they chose State: They like Sidney Lowe. I've never heard a recruit ever mention that he thought he could get to the big dance and that's why he chose State. Their peers give them a hard time for coming to NC State. CJ Leslie mentioned that in an interview once. Sidney has not been riding on Herb's coattails by any stretch of the imagination. Herb's success has been long since forgotten, and Sidney never once capitalized on any "momentum" that I'm aware of.
bradley-boy123!!
Wed, 03/03/2010 - 11:04 — bluecat69bluecat69i only hope the wulfpeckers never get rid of SKID , can u say perennial bottom feeder, ok, go duke!!!
Lowe
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 04:18 — mad_maxSid isn't going anywhere, not with that recruiting class for next year. Finishing in the middle of the conference or higher next year would be plenty enough reason to keep him around. Bring up Sendek all you want, but remember, he didn't have a winning conference record or make it to the NCAA's until his 6th season at State.
I give
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:05 — unc098Sid two more years at the most...
Agreed
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:12 — Heels20But with emphasis on "at the most." If they somehow acquire CJ Leslie to go along with the rest of the recruiting class AND the return of Tracy Smith, there is no excuse not to win. There is no doubt in my mind that next year should be his last chance.
He
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:21 — unc098has no more excuses as you say after next year. He will need no less than 3rd in ACC to be retained....and only because of who is his. I think he has a pretty good squad at the moment that he should be able to build on.
So
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:42 — JPDOhioIf State finishes 4th, getting a bye in the ACC Tourney, Sid's gone? I doubt that.
Top half of the ACC gets Sid another year. Easy.
My reply
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:52 — unc098is Sendek went to the NCAA's for how many years in a row???? and what is Sid's record?? History does not bestow gifts on the mediocre in this case as well as others... budgetary considerations may play a hand but I doubt it. Hey if Roy goes 3 seasons with the kind of season he has had he would be outa here too.
Devil's advocate
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:49 — Heels20So hypothetically speaking, if Sid goes 7-9, finishing 6th in the conference and goes out first round of the ACC tournament, you think he will still have the opportunity to come back? Even if Fowler is gone?
Response.
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:14 — JPDOhioThe only way State gets to sixth with a 7-9 record is if there a lot of teams in the middle of the conference. So, yeah, I think making a change on that result is not likely.
As far as Fowler is concerned, is there talk about him getting fired anywhere but the blogosphere? I am not where you guys are, so I don't hear rumors or water cooler talk. Is this real or just venting from frustrated Wolfpackers?
Finally, off subject, but not really. Isn't this dialogue way better than the trash that is spewed by the useless blue blogger. Can those of us who occasionally come up with a lucid post just agree to ignore the jerk in every way? No responses, no references, NADA. He probably won't go away, but we don't have to be distracted or waste our time with him. I can tell you, this is the last time you will ever see me reference him.
Been in
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:30 — SurferI am in on this, actually have been.
Fowler and the blue character you speak of
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:26 — Heels20I don't want to go into too much detail and get any one in trouble, but I've heard from what pretty much any one would call a reliable source that Fowler is under a lot of pressure and many people involved in the program are unhappy. This obviously doesn't guarantee that he will be gone, but it is definitely a possibility. Any way, I don't want to wish that kind of thing upon any one, so we'll just have to see how the Pack fare in basketball over the course of the next few weeks.
As far as "it" goes, the original plan to rid this site of his undesired presence seems to have failed miserably so I would like to serve as the spokesman for "its" counterpart to announce that the plan implemented last night shall be aborted. Fortunately "it" suffers from a severe lack of reading comprehension and will not catch on to any of these implications in this particular post.
If Fowler does go...
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:35 — JPDOhioI would guess that the new guy would not want to disrupt the programs immediately. So, I would think that would almost guarantee another year for Sid.
That said, I wll concede that if, next year, State has the same kind of year they had this year, all bets on Sid's longevity are off. I don't see that happening though.
H2O
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:34 — unc098Its simple.....shunning works
Yup
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:38 — Heels20It was fun while it lasted, and I'm happy to see that "its counterpart" was able to irritate the hell out of "it" while it lasted. But sometimes, it's time to just hang up the keyboard.
Adios
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:42 — unc098Amigos
Enjoy your evening, good sir.
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:45 — Heels20Enjoy your evening, good sir.
right on
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:17 — unc098JDP on the "it" reference. Totally agree and I am with you on the "shunning" posture.....
H2O
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:53 — unc098NO! see above post
Re: H20
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:55 — Heels20That was directed toward JPDOhio. I'm not necessarily criticizing, but just interested in what may happen.
Just being a
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:57 — unc098Buttinski...sorry....
It's all good
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:00 — Heels20No apology necessary. I have made similar mistakes many a time.
True
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:24 — Heels20But Brandon Costner, Courtney Fells and Ben McCauley were all far more talented than any one on this team, with the exception of Tracy Smith. The issues with them were lack of effort, which falls on the shoulders of the coach. This season, while the Pack has been outhustled at times, improvement can be seen in terms of overall determination. I feel like Sidney has gotten more out of his talent, but there just isn't as much talent there now as there were on the past 3 teams. That shouldn't be an issue next season, so as you said, they will need to be close to the top for Sidney to earn another year.
I
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:39 — unc098simply agree. His talent base has diminished with the exception of T. Smith as compared to the folks you mentioned. I thought that was a pretty good team that was destined to really do well...but that was also the year of all the drama with his son.... so as a parent I am willing to cut him some slack on that issue... however I think he has enough goop to get er done next year at least to the level of retention.. I actually like the guy and wish him the best.. I still don't think he is as good a coach as Sendek...ouch...
familiar
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 23:37 — gvillegatrCoach Roy Williams was able to over come his band of misfits and win a title with guys he didn't recruit.
Coach Lowe, with time, might turn into a winner. anything less than 8-8 next season and he will have to find out at aother school.
Big difference
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:02 — JPDOhioThe guys Roy inherited had to put up or shut up. They ran Doherty out of town and ended with a coach who was a proven winner. Talk about an "Oh S--t" moment. To their credit, they responded to Roy and got it done.
In contrast, Herb was run out of town by the fan base, not the players. Who knows what would have happened if Atsur hadn't gone down in November. They didn't recover until the run they made in the ACC tournament, which turned out to be the worst thing that could have happened.
Why? Because they began to believe they were better than they really were. So did many of us. Losing Atsur with no adequate replacement shot their chances. You can't win without solid guard play, as we see over and over again. Add the jealousy over JJ Hickson's early success and you get as dysfunctional a team as you can possibly imagine.
IMO, this was Sid's biggest mistake since taking over at State. He was not prepared for the drama and did not deal with it effectively. He tried to manage it better last year, but the die was cast with that group. Fells being injured most of the year didn't help.
Whatever the talent, the results did not match up. For that reason, one of the best things to happen to this year's team was Costner moving on.
good points
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:13 — unc098On the Costner issue and the on court drama issue. Coupled with his personal issues, which were immense, I would say he had his hands full. Atsur was a superbly talented point guard with some real brains, however I am surprised Sid hasn't been able to recruit a top notch point guard since he has been at State given who he is.... I am a little surprised at how much slack Lowe has received compared to TOB but then again he is part of the tribe with a national title to back him up... I wish him well.
Wow
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:12 — Heels20That is terrifying how you were just able to put such a complex and disorganized situation in to such a concise, fitting description.
I will disagree on one thing. While it is very true that you can't win without a solid point guard, there had to be ways to improve that situation. Lowe should have been able to foresee the issues to come when Atsur went down and give Fells time at the point. I think Fells was actually recruited by Sendek as a point guard, and he even saw time at the position under Lowe against ECU in '06-'07. However, it never seemed like Sidney ever pushed for an adjustment to make it a more permanent situation.
Even that being said, you've still got to wonder how a coaching staff of Monte Towe, Sidney Lowe and Justin Gainey, all solid-at-worst point guards in their day, weren't able to find some type of solution among Fells, Degand, Gonzalez, and Ferguson. Should've been somewhat easy with the talent they had around them, but then again the talented bodies had little-to-no heart. I guess it comes down to whether or not you can blame coaching for that.
guards
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:29 — JPDOhioWhy couldn't Sid recruit a solid point guard? Wish I had an answer to that one. I also wonder what might have happened if Chris Wright had stuck with State. Too bad we'll never know.
On the development side, I would argue that Javi is a success story. He has been too inconsistent, but he has been terrific on occasion. Who would have guessed he would have any success after his freshmen year?
On coaching, I tend to think coaches get too much credit and too much blame. Especially when you are dealing with 20 something kids. The best a coach can do is recruit well, conduct solid practices and hope for the best on game day.
Take Roy for example. He didn't turn into a bad coach all of a sudden this year. His current team just isn't taking to his coaching like his past teams had. Even with all the injuries, UNC has more raw talent than most teams can dream of.
If the Tar Heels are to perform better next year, it is up to the players to decide they are going to do what it takes to be a better team (as opposed to better individual players). Roy can try, but he can't do it for them.
ditty-do!!
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 10:59 — bluecat69bluecat69the holes must have "HIDDEN TALENT"" either that or ol roy has lost it-- call coach K , he can get ol roy back on track, ok, go duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JDP
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:40 — unc098Javi has a bunch of talent and I think this State team has potential... I also agree about your comment regarding coaching and I think Sid has done a better job with his youngins' than Roy this year to be honest even though UNC beat State twice. I could say the same for Drew 2 about being brilliant and awful simultaneously in comparison with Javi. The jury is out. I have to say that Roy will continue to recruit great players and its only a matter of time before he musters the right combination.
Javi
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:33 — Heels20I agree that he has improved significantly since last season, but I was mainly referring to how it's weird how he wasn't able to play this way with guys who were more talented than any one on this squad. Maybe lack of team effort in the past answers that question.
Agree with you on the coaching issue. Roy has probably worked harder this year than any other year, and it shows in how he's aged 10 years in 11 months. However, getting your players to respond is part of coaching and while I back him up 100%, he is going to have to prove he can win his team over and turn this horrible situation into something special.
With that....
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:38 — JPDOhioI gotta go. I assume that tomorrow I'll be to read your 3 A.M. post.
Good night. This was fun and a good way to spend the late evening.
Sorry to disappoint...
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 00:40 — Heels20...but I can't afford a BUI tonight. Hopefully there will be a good one by this weekend.
Have a good one, JPD.
they should be in at .500
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 22:42 — jeromfitzThey had a reasonable year but going to get better after they find a proven shooter from the bench or in recruitment that can keep it close down the stretch and clinch at the free throw line..... How about expand the NIT field to 48 team..or 64 team also...make it happen let the .500 percent team play one more game...
Indiana
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 16:30 — joegiglio (author)My bad, I confused my former Kelvin Sampson teams.
fixed it.
— JPG
he lives
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 22:36 — gvillegatrhaven't seen you post in months!
MOO U......
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 16:24 — TheMambaSTRIKEShas one quality win outside the mediocre ACC (Marquette) and 1 quality player in Smith.....
Where ever they go....is pretty much irrelevant other than to keep the "AD Wolves" in suits from knocking on Lowe's door in the middle of the night.
Indiana?
Mon, 03/01/2010 - 15:46 — JPDOhioAt 9-19, they should be a shoo-in for the NIT.
UCLA? The same Bruins that currently have a losing record overal and are at .500 in the Pac-10, the worst major conference in hoops this year?
I can see UNC and Arizona getting picked over State, assuming they finish with winning records. You will recall, though, that the Pack lost at Arizona without Tracy Smith on a last second layup two days before Christmas. Not a rousing argument in favor of AZ, who is .500 overall and also .500 in the worst major conference in hoops this year.
All this is moot if State doesn't win one of its last two games of the season and at least one in the ACC tourney. If they can do that, they should earn an NIT bid.