Give back the football money, ACC. Seriously, it's not too late.
We all make mistakes. Just admit you made one in expansion and give Boston College and Miami back to the Big East (but keep Virginia Tech, please).
Ten teams is all you need. The only casualty would be the colossal failure that is the ACC Championship Game in football.
The upside? A true football championship, with every team actually playing each other, and the return of the round-robin in basketball. (The Pac-10 and Big East play 18 conference games, so could you).
Honestly, what would rather have: Virginia Tech and Boston College in another empty football stadium or a redux of Duke-Wake Forest from Sunday night?
That Duke and Wake were actually seeing each other for the second time this season made Duke's 101-91 win that much better. Sure, the talent and the atmosphere helped but it was what Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski called "familiarity" that made Sunday's game a classic.
"To me, that's what made our conference even better, having that type of familiarity," Coach K said. "It will never be that way again."
And then K, who was against expansion from the jump, twisted the dagger into John Swofford's football-lined coffers.
"I'm not sure what we gained from [expansion] but we lost a lot, as far as basketball is concerned," K said.
Truer words have never been spoken. If only the ACC would listen.
Comments
since when are you caring about team travel?
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 14:16 — keepdumpingonbclong flight for weeknight games?
Come on, less than 2 hours from the triangle.
just over 3 hours from Boston to Miami
next excuse....
Again, get 22 league games, create an on-campus tournament so that your team can play 3 games but only count as 1, and your problems are solved with losing gates and playing too many league games
With Respect
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 14:43 — dukefan43Hey, BC guy.
Not sure why you are so eager to stay in the ACC when it seems that you have some disdain for member schools.
Regarding travel--airplanes, schedules and logistics are ALWAYS a major factor in the lives of players, coaches, A.D. staff etc. Suffice to say, entire duke community prefers a bus ride to Winston or Raleigh over a flight to Logan (w/ a bus ride on both ends to and from airports). And duke students can drive over to Wake or NCState for the games. That's the point of conf hoops! When I was in school 'Pack still played in Reynolds--great old building, like cameron. I went to the road game over there 3 of my 4 years, and it was always awesome. Valvano--say no more... NCState fans treated us well as guests, even when Johnny dawkins hit a disputed game-winner from the baseline. And I stood next to the governor of NC one time in a restroom in there. He seemed like a nice guy, and definitely a real fan.
So, yeah, is the ACC dominated by the 'NC mafia' of the big-4? Well, sure. Is BC a good fit for this? Maybe not.
Get in line behind gary williams if you want to complain about the NC schools....
but, gee, it was everett case, eddie cameron, dean smith, jim valvano and coack k who made the league what it is, so the've earned the right to throw some weight around.
Way of the world.
take it easy--see you at the ACC tourney?
no disdain at all
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 16:43 — keepdumpingonbcread the original post....said as a BC fan that it's an honor to be in the ACC. Had nothing bad to say about any school. Can understand that your traditions were tinkered with and many are upset by it (referring to the Round Robin). If it was so precious, why don't we see 22 conference games? I gave the perfect idea, add an on-campus tournament to get 2 extra exempt games, and now you are starting to replace the gate money lost and home games lost.
If conference games are about taking bus rides, you might as well take the 4 NC Mafia schools and merge with the MEAC. :o)
Again, BC will always be like the red-headed stepchild, never being truly accepted into the family, and as a fan of BC it stinks. But I understand......
OK to all
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 17:10 — dukefan43hey
Just don't think the schools can do the 22 conf games, given NCAA regs. We would lose too much flexibility--not only 'cupcakes' but also local 'feel-good' gates: coach K always has 2 each year w/ NC or SC schools who are darned happy to show up at Cameron, get some TV time, get beat, and go home w/ a fat paycheck. This is important to their programs.
Not that conf games are 'about the bus ride'--just that it's better to be close.
Familiarity, etc.
If you were a BC student or alum living in the Hub wouldn't you rather have an important late-season conf game be played in Providence or Hartford instead of Raleigh?
You could attend a game in hartford and tell Calhoun to stick it ..!. (Of course true blue devils don't like UConn huskies much..)
BC belongs in the Big East for hoops--it's a great league, w/ TV money, excellent local rivalries, big-name schools, etc.
Still not sure why you made the jump to the ACC. Oh, wait, now I remember---football money....
ugghhhh....
Doug Flutie might say that BC football was doing just fine, thnx.
and why would a traditional, northeastern catholic school like BC want to join a 'Southern' football league anyway??
seriously--there aint much juice in the Celmson/BC rivalry, right?
I guess it comes down to the BCS thing in the nat'l football title charade.
If you want to be a player then you must run w/ the big dogs.
brutal. :-)
Best form here.
BC has benefitted quite a bit from leaving the Big Least
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 23:11 — keepdumpingonbcBC never had a real rivalry in the Big East. Syracuse, Providence, and or UCONN. After being sued by UCONN, BC will never associate with UCONN as long as the current administrations are in place. UCONN fans want to say that their football improvement is what chased BC away from the Big East, which is so absurd. BC and Providence have a long-term contract in place right now to play basketball. BC and Syracuse begin a long-term football series in the next year or two. There were no other real connections with the other schools. The only thing people miss from the Big East is the Big East Tournament. Going back to the Round Robin............the Ohio Valley Conference plays a TWENTY (20) game league schedule, so i can't imagine 22 is not possible.
Depending on how you term the word "rivalry", BC-Clemson (believe it or not) has become one of the better conference games in the ACC every year.
ohio valley
Thu, 02/26/2009 - 00:04 — gvillegatrcmon man. dont bring some, "see the ohio valley can do it, why cant the ACC." we wouldnt piss on the ohio valley conference if it was on fire.
look. nothing is going to be done about 20 conference games until the tv contract is up in the next year or two, whenever that is. at that point, you will see the ACC move to 20 games more than likely.
you took that completely out of context
Thu, 02/26/2009 - 00:40 — keepdumpingonbcSomeone else said that it was against NCAA regulations to play 22 game conference schedule. SO, I said that the Ohio Valley Conference plays (played, they lost a team or two and went from 20 games in 07-08 to 18 in 08-09) a 20 game schedule. Your quotes were completely uncalled for and nowhere near my reason for bringing it up. DUH.
get in line
Thu, 02/26/2009 - 00:50 — gvillegatrI take everyones comments "out of context."
more on round-robin, BC, etc
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 13:53 — dukefan43Great comments from everyone.
I am now close to 30 years as an ACC fan, hoops and football. I don't think we have to 'prioritize' one over the other. BC is not really a great fit for the hoops---long flight for midweek games (not an issue for football), no shared history in-state (Va tech can claim that b/c many of their students and alums have UVA roots), plus the Big East legacy. Of course I am aware that boston is on the 'Atlantic Coast'--but then maybe we should have the Maine Black Bears in conf too..?
So if we drop BC from hoops it won't be because we think poorly of them--it's a fine school w/ a great history. But the round-robin is too good to give up. I was mystified slightly the other night when Gminiski said on TV that most of the Wake players had never seen Cameron before--I'm thinking, 'what, were they all sick last year?' Oh, no, wake didn't make the trip to durham last year....
geez.
and then if we drop BC we have to drop another for round numbers....
Miami is the obvious--again, for the airplane stuff, plus lack of tradition.
But we can still keep everybody for football!!
Big East members have different alignments for hoops and football--works for them.
As far as where to locate the ACC football championship game, I'll leave that one to the 'experts'....
but I agree that charlotte in december ain't great--been there plenty. Ice storms, dead town, etc. Orlando, atlanta or miami seem like better choices.
Devils in college park tonight--wish i were there....
come on
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 14:27 — gvillegatrbut I agree that charlotte in december ain't great--been there plenty. Ice storms, dead town, etc. Orlando, atlanta or miami seem like better choices.
the big XII has played their title game, outdoors, in Kansas City on more than one occassion. one time in single digits with snow everywhere. I believe there would be no complaints about Charlotte. and Charlotte is not a dead town.
I'm not hating on NC....
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 15:25 — dukefan43Trust me, I was born in burlington , NC, and went to school in durham (obviously).
But KC is a rocking town---music, Barbeque, fun people, night life, etc.
charlotte, ummm, has barbeque.....
even with the new tall buildings and the light rail and the new NBA arena (what was wrong w/ the old one..?), the place is still a dead-zone after about nine pm....
and of course the current banking 'issues' have not helped--last time I talked to a buddy in charlotte he said that the place is scary-scared.
hardly surprising....
been to KC too. know all
Wed, 02/25/2009 - 22:03 — gvillegatrbeen to KC too. know all about it. the weather in decembe ... i'll take Charlotte all day long. Charlotte has numerous places to eat and booz downtown. not to mention places to stay.
Charlotte > Kansas City for a football game.
my point was all about someone whining about Charlotte being bad weather 1st weekend in December. thats why I brought up KC. its a great place too. but i'll take my chances in Charlotte like I was saying. it can still be 70 degrees first weekend of december.
and dukefan43, i graduated from a high school in bur vegas as well! thats all i'll say about that!
you actually want to dump one of your better teams?
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 23:02 — keepdumpingonbcThat's funny, dumping on BC, who is the 3rd winning ACC team in Basketball over the last 4 seasons, and also played in the ACC Football Championship in each of the last 2 years. But BC doesn't belong in the ACC say all the people from the South. ACC stands for Atlantic Coast Conference, which Boston sits on. But that's besides the point. If you want the almighty round robin back, why not petition the chicken sh## coaches to play 22 league games, instead of lining up the deadbeat cupcakes. UCONN over BC? Would have poisoned the football even further. Last I checked, BC defeated both Duke and UNC this year in Basketball, so what would UCONN have brought to the league? How many teams have knocked off all 3 teams from the triangle? And before I get bashed for being a northerner, I haven't said anything wrong or nasty. As an obvious Boston College fan, I am honored to have the team i root for in your conference and i don't feel BC has done anything to tarnish the athletics in the ACC, and certainly gave the league another top notch academic institution.
UCant
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 23:40 — gvillegatrcame from one of the many postees. I would prefer to have BC b/c they bring more of a balance in both sports.
it would be extremely difficult to fit 22 conference games onto the schedule for no other reason all the ACC teams would lose a couple of home dates (see cup cakes) which equate to a loss of money for each school.
Schedules
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 22:35 — rbl1944If you want to see what expansion has wrought in terms of scheduling inequities, look no further than women's basketball. FSU plays Carolina, Duke, and Maryland at home without playing them on the road. No wonder they are on track to win the regular season championship. It was handed to them by the conference.
guys
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 21:15 — gvillegatrI am all for going back to the round robin BUT there would not be such a cry for it if the football championship game was not so dam* embarassing when it comes to the attendance. that is the real driving force behind some of us changing our minds. also, Miami needs to kick it into high gear.
Amen JP!
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 20:02 — tjfooseAmen JP!
round robin
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 17:46 — leernealwhat is this, the best of bozo?? you write this article every year, yearning for the good old days when the conference revolved around tobacco road. while you're looking at your dream list try putting humpty dumpty back together again or the cork back into the bottle. the acc sold their soul for tv money and nothing will ever change.
ROUND ROBIN
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 17:12 — CAWilliamsEven in recreation sports we stress the importance of playing a fair, balanced and equitable schedule; even though the main emphasis is on having fun and being a good sport. Professional sports play the same balanced regular season schedule as recreation kids do to a degree. Why can't collegiate athletics figure it out? Playing a balanced regular season schedule is just the right thing to do.
Money maker
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 16:17 — rgw0416Good points J.P., BUT remember that football is the money maker at every school and funds the entire athletic deparment--even in the ACC.
Yes, the ACC is a basketball conference but it's still football that brings in the dough and keeps the conference afloat.
How much money is enough?
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 16:29 — jpg (author)Remember, we're talking about non-profit entities here: the ACC and all 12 schools.
Balance your budget, pay your bills — which they were doing just fine with the previous TV deals for hoops and football — and move on.
You're right, RGW, financial sense says the ACC won't go back to nine or 10 teams, but it's what the conference should do.
And you're missing the point, other readers, when you suggest WVU or UConn should have been added.
The league doesn't need 12 members, even if Florida and Georgia wanted to leave the SEC.
— JPG
i dunno
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 21:13 — gvillegatrI think the ACC would have needed 12 members had Georgia and Florida wanted to secede! Florida would finish in the middle to top half of bball but Georgia would be a gamble. no explanation needed for football. Miami and FSU they would not turn into.
Round Robin --- Ahhhh!
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 15:11 — WolfpackPrideGuyTo only play Duke once a year is a major disappointment. We should have picked up UCONN over Boston College, and Anyone over Miami. Football has never driven the ACC, and may never. NC is a basketball state, one of the 2 or 3 biggest basketball states in the union. Indiana and NY have an argument, but that is it. It's those 3 states. NC State vs Duke was the most played match up in ACC Basketball history, until this year. Only playing Duke once a year has changed history for worse. Bring back the round robin. Please.
football ...
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 21:07 — gvillegatrdid drive the ACC for quite awhile untill the 60's. it's called HBO ... invest in it!!
since when did this article
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 14:52 — JoeTarheelsince when did this article become a "lobby" for the site of the football championship. For the record, Charlotte sucks as a site for a football game in December. Anybody go to the Carolina-WVA game? People want to go to a 'destination city', preferably a warm destination city with sunshine and beaches. at least Atlanta is indoors. If Carolina & State are playing in Tampa, it will be a sellout, period. Now, to the original point, which is we don't need Boston College or Miami in the first place. It clearly damaged something that was 'near perfect', all for the sake of 'football'. clearly, this has not proven to be a good move. The Basketball round-robin where every year, Carolina, Clemson, Duke, State, Wake Forest, Maryland, Ga. Tech and Virginia each played twice helped create the #1 Basketball conference in the nation, year-end, year-out. We 'ain't the SEC.
If only we all had crystal balls!
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 14:36 — UNC1998It all would have been clear. I must say even the ACC brass is disappointed with the reception in the northeast. As far as football, the ACC has too many small, private schools with limited alumni bases to drive a championship game to success year in and year out. Only if schools like FSU, Clemson, NCSU, and maybe UNC made the game every year could it be a guaranteed success. Even then something like the economy could hurt. I believe the ACCCG should be held every year in Charlotte. That would put it within a reasonable distance from the bulk of ACC fans.
Bring back the round -robin... for the ACC & the Big East
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 14:06 — ncspikeJP,
Great idea. This would also solve the Big East football problem. With Miami & BC back in the fold, the Big East would have 10 football schools.
They then could then drop the unweildy16 team basketball set up. The remaining basketball schools ( Marquette, G-town, Depaul, St Johns, Villanova) could add a few schools like Dayton and Xavier and could have a fabulous conference with basketball as their marquee sport. They could call it the Catholic League.
ACC football & basketball
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 13:56 — s196322I know the dollar is the driving point with everything that is done and that is why the fans are never respected with their opinions. If they really wanted to strengthen the ACC they would have stayed out of the Northeast market and invited West Virginia instead of Boston College. Geographically and competitiveness they would be a perfect fit, but we all know that money dictates every move. We also know if they wanted to have an exciting ACC football championship they would play it in Charlotte which is much more geographically located than Florida. I hope they learn from their mistakes before the fans loose interest completely.
AGREED!
Tue, 02/24/2009 - 13:45 — lmawyerGosh, I miss the days of B-ball round-robins.